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-   -   Is there a difference in Cog brands? (http://www.bikeforums.net/track-cycling-velodrome-racing-training-area/931834-there-difference-cog-brands.html)

gtexbush 01-28-14 01:34 PM

Is there a difference in Cog brands?
 
Is there a difference in cog brand types? Does the higher price justify these cogs?

queerpunk 01-28-14 01:49 PM

It depends.
Since a Dura-Ace cog is like twenty bucks and takes forever to wear out, I don't see much of a reason to use anything else.

carleton 01-28-14 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by queerpunk (Post 16447764)
It depends.
Since a Dura-Ace cog is like twenty bucks and takes forever to wear out, I don't see much of a reason to use anything else.

+1

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtexbush (Post 16447723)
Is there a difference in cog brand types? Does the higher price justify these cogs?

As with many types of equipment there is a place of diminishing returns. With cogs, that point of diminishing returns starts at around $30.

$30 Dura Ace and Euro Asia Imports (or similar) cogs are the standard and are used at every level of competition. There is no benefit of spending more than that for a cog. I'm not sure what extra value a $120 titanium nitride coated cog provides. The same is said about ceramic bearings.

I'm still using Dura Ace and EAI cogs that I bought in 2009, and I'm a big guy that and I am very tough on my drive train.

gtexbush 01-28-14 03:12 PM

What about on the lower end on eBay where there are cogs with lockrigs for $14.00. They are for 1/8" chain and appear to be the same type that came with my Giant Omnium.

Kayce 01-28-14 03:22 PM

Share a link. But a cog that cheap is probably stamped, rather than forged. That is the real difference in the quality of cogs. Any cog worth buying will be forged, and no stamped cog is ever worth buying.

gtexbush 01-28-14 03:29 PM

Here is the link. http://www.ebay.com/itm/110977318616...84.m1423.l2649

Are the forged faster, more true, longer lasting?

Brian Ratliff 01-28-14 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carleton (Post 16447879)
...
$30 Dura Ace and Euro Asia Imports (or similar) cogs are the standard and are used at every level of competition. There is no benefit of spending more than that for a cog. I'm not sure what extra value a $120 titanium nitride coated cog provides. The same is said about ceramic bearings.

...

1+

The only time I'll spend money on any cog not Shimano is if it has "EAI" or "Campagnolo" stamped on the side, and all the Campy stuff is NOS at this point. The bike shop who sponsors our team did find some NOS 13 tooth Campy aluminum cogs. He sold them to us for very cheap. I keep waiting for it to wear out, but it is cut so true that I think it will last a long time as long as I run good chain on it.

I guess my attitude will have to change if I end up sometime with some proprietary hub/cog system such as White Industries. But you know, I got the track version of Shimano's chainwhip, and all of the sudden, all my cog swapping woes of the last few years are gone, so I don't think I need a weird system just so I can take the cog off my hub more easily. I mean, really, I'm more concerned with making my cog stay on the wheel than getting it off...

Brian Ratliff 01-28-14 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtexbush (Post 16448061)
Here is the link. http://www.ebay.com/itm/110977318616...84.m1423.l2649

Are the forged faster, more true, longer lasting?

Looks like cheap crap. Find a picture of a Shimano cog and look very carefully at the teeth; see how they are ground curved to a point rather than angled. Then pony up the extra $15 and buy that instead. Unless you are riding smaller than a 39 in front, you don't need a lockring for a 14 tooth cog anyway. My lockrings don't even fit a 14.

gtexbush 01-28-14 04:12 PM

Well that is nice to know. I got a set of these gears with the bike and I agree they appear cheap. I will buy a set of Shimano cogs a little a time. Thanks.

sbs z31 01-28-14 04:21 PM

How about the AllCity standard track cogs?

carleton 01-28-14 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtexbush (Post 16448061)
Here is the link. http://www.ebay.com/itm/110977318616...84.m1423.l2649

Are the forged faster, more true, longer lasting?

$14 + $3 shipping = $17.

According to your profile, you are in Atlanta. Call around local shops like Loose Nuts (great shop, BTW) and get a Shimano or EAI cog that will last you for years.

Also make sure that you have a quality chain that won't stretch on you.

Track racing isn't as expensive as road or MTB racing, but there are some basic quality investments that you should make that will pay off for years. Go to this thread for more stuff that you should consider getting before the season. You have a few months.

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...ew-track-racer

I still have all of the tools, chainrings, cogs that I purchased during my first season of racing except for:

- 15mm craftsman wrench that I left on the roof of my car one day
- 48t chainring that I gave to a new racer to start his kit. He's still using it. I got a newer one when a guy gave up racing and sold lots of stuff.
- 5mm allen wrench that I *still* believe that my teammate borrowed and didn't return :mad: He denies it.

I know one guy who has an original Campy "Peanut Butter" wrench from when he started racing in the 70s. He still uses it to this day.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...nk_spanner.jpg

Brian Ratliff 01-28-14 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sbs z31 (Post 16448185)
How about the AllCity standard track cogs?

They'll all work. It's just that, unless you are totally strapped for cash or buying something non-standard (say, a 21 tooth cog), why not buy a good quality thing once? We're talking about $15 dollars separating top-of-the-line from bottom of the barrel.

There is nothing special about anything AllCity sells. It's like Surley or Soma or Pake, they all "design" their bikes and parts by picking stuff out of a catalogue from a Taiwanese or Chinese supplier. Not that it's not solid stuff or even good. Just don't go thinking that it has any performance benefits over any other catalogue brand.

sbs z31 01-28-14 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff (Post 16448300)
They'll all work. It's just that, unless you are totally strapped for cash or buying something non-standard (say, a 21 tooth cog), why not buy a good quality thing once? We're talking about $15 dollars separating top-of-the-line from bottom of the barrel.

There is nothing special about anything AllCity sells. It's like Surley or Soma or Pake, they all "design" their bikes and parts by picking stuff out of a catalogue from a Taiwanese or Chinese supplier. Not that it's not solid stuff or even good. Just don't go thinking that it has any performance benefits over any other catalogue brand.

Well I already bought a set of 13t-16t AllCity standard cogs, I guess we'll just have to see how long they'll last.

gtexbush 01-28-14 06:01 PM

I will look in the ATL area or online for some Dura Ace cogs.

Brian Ratliff 01-28-14 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sbs z31 (Post 16448311)
Well I already bought a set of 13t-16t AllCity standard cogs, I guess we'll just have to see how long they'll last.

Forgive me, I thought you were asking whether you should buy them or not. If you already have them, don't worry about it. But you did ask for an opinion.

The other side of the coin is 15 dollars is still 15 dollars. It's not a safety issue, and they'll probably work just fine for you.

sbs z31 01-28-14 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff (Post 16449052)
Forgive me, I thought you were asking whether you should buy them or not. If you already have them, don't worry about it. But you did ask for an opinion.

The other side of the coin is 15 dollars is still 15 dollars. It's not a safety issue, and they'll probably work just fine for you.

Haha yeah I just wanted people's opinion but I'll use them since I already have them.

noglider 01-29-14 04:01 PM

I'm glad I read this thread! I have some cheap cogs, and I'll use them, but I'll stop buying them, too.

A friend of mine did once bring me his wheel and asked me to get his cog off. It was very difficult to remove. I had to abuse it to take it off. The lockring was Dura Ace, and since it was made of very high quality steel, I barely damaged it. So that's a good word for Dura ace.

carleton, a couple of years ago, a bike of mine was stolen. In my toolbag hanging from my saddle was the peanut butter wrench. Miraculously, I recovered the bike three months later, but the tool bag and its contents were gone. The prices on those wrenches are too high for me. A car mechanic friend of mine made one for me. He used a Craftsman combination wrench and welded a 15mm socket to one end. Just for kicks, he welded a very large bearing ball to the other end.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-J...o/IMG_2572.JPG

carleton 01-29-14 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noglider (Post 16451054)
I'm glad I read this thread! I have some cheap cogs, and I'll use them, but I'll stop buying them, too.

A friend of mine did once bring me his wheel and asked me to get his cog off. It was very difficult to remove. I had to abuse it to take it off. The lockring was Dura Ace, and since it was made of very high quality steel, I barely damaged it. So that's a good word for Dura ace.

carleton, a couple of years ago, a bike of mine was stolen. In my toolbag hanging from my saddle was the peanut butter wrench. Miraculously, I recovered the bike three months later, but the tool bag and its contents were gone. The prices on those wrenches are too high for me. A car mechanic friend of mine made one for me. He used a Craftsman combination wrench and welded a 15mm socket to one end. Just for kicks, he welded a very large bearing ball to the other end.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-J...o/IMG_2572.JPG

That is AWESOME!

noglider 01-29-14 04:21 PM

Heh. Yeah, it's a special gift, for sure. He's also a huge bike and cycling enthusiast, as I am.

Impreza_aL 01-29-14 04:31 PM

i have dura ace and suntour cogs.

also a local racer made these wrenches for hellyer. they were given out to 1st place category winners for the get ready for summer series.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/a69fc341c...ojxo1_1280.jpg

carleton 01-29-14 05:02 PM

Nice. I really dig awards/trophies that people can actually use (steerer caps, belt buckles, t shirts, etc...). Most medals, trophies, and jerseys never see the light of day after the awards ceremony.

Slavic 01-29-14 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff (Post 16448300)
They'll all work. It's just that, unless you are totally strapped for cash or buying something non-standard (say, a 21 tooth cog), why not buy a good quality thing once? We're talking about $15 dollars separating top-of-the-line from bottom of the barrel.

There is nothing special about anything AllCity sells. It's like Surley or Soma or Pake, they all "design" their bikes and parts by picking stuff out of a catalogue from a Taiwanese or Chinese supplier. Not that it's not solid stuff or even good. Just don't go thinking that it has any performance benefits over any other catalogue brand.

You can either take my word for it or not, but I assure you that neither All City nor Surly is a "catalogue brand." Both employ R&D departments that design and spec. all their parts (one of All City's engineers rides track at the Blaine velodrome as well, for whatever that's worth).

sbs z31 01-29-14 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slavic (Post 16452108)
You can either take my word for it or not, but I assure you that neither All City nor Surly is a "catalogue brand." Both employ R&D departments that design and spec. all their parts (one of All City's engineers rides track at the Blaine velodrome as well, for whatever that's worth).

Wow that's good to know and I'll be looking for this said engineer at NSC this year. One of the reasons for going with the AllCity cogs and lockrings was local business support.

queerpunk 01-30-14 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sbs z31 (Post 16452227)
Wow that's good to know and I'll be looking for this said engineer at NSC this year. One of the reasons for going with the AllCity cogs and lockrings was local business support.

You won't be able to miss her.

sbs z31 01-30-14 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by queerpunk (Post 16452939)
You won't be able to miss her.

Sounds good and I'll be registering for the intro class soon.


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