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  1. #26
    Senior Member Quinn8it's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noglider View Post
    If you apply glue to both tire and rim, won't the two layers stick together?
    The issue is the adhesion of the new type of glue to the old glue already on the rim bed..

  2. #27
    Senior Member ftwelder's Avatar
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    Naptha isn't very clean. You will want to use acetone or a hot strong detergent to clean the rims before using glue.
    1886 Surrey machinists Invincible, 1900 Nashua, 1937 Raleigh Golden Arrow, 1938 Raleigh Silver Record, 1951 Armstrong tourmalet, 1970 Motobecane Grand Record, 1971 Raleigh Professional, 1971 Gitane TDF, 1972 Legnano Gran Primio, 1973, Peugeot PX-10, 1975 Roberts, 1984 Battaglin Giro, 1985 Grandis Speciale, 2012 FTW

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  3. #28
    aka Tom Reingold noglider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinn8it View Post
    The issue is the adhesion of the new type of glue to the old glue already on the rim bed..
    Ok then. The two don't stick together. And when has this happened to a cyclist?
    You don't read my signature anyway, do you?

    Tom Reingold, noglider@pobox.com
    Residences: West Village, New York City and High Falls, NY
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  4. #29
    Senior Member
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    I don't have an anecdote for you but i think most will accept that some glues don't play well together. The trick is knowing which glues need to be kept separate, and there's nobody who really knows this information as far as I can tell. So the prevailing wisdom is to just remove the old glue. Cuz you don't want to suddenly be tire-less when you come off the banking at ~40mph (or faster, depending who you are). That could hurt.

    As far as your other question about how much glue build-up is too much: I've been told there is a point where too much is bad. I've only rolled one tire in my life. 1000 years ago in a crit (think down tube shifters, non-ironic mullets), a guy went down in front of me mid-corner. As I was sideways trying not to hit him and go down myself, another guy T-boned me. When I picked myself up, my rear tire had rolled. There was a lot of glue on that wheel, and that could maybe have been part of it. Or it could have been that impact while the bike was sideways levered the tire off no matter much or how little glue was on there.

    Too much glue is probably bad, but too little is maybe worse. The right amount is probably..., enough. Are you looking for a gluing primer? There was a good one on the FGF page, but that page seems to be inaccessible or booby-trapped or something these days. Probably Carleton can scare one up, might be a useful sticky.

  5. #30
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    Try the following for a link on glue procedure complete with adhesion tests of different glues and procedures.
    http://www.engr.ku.edu/~kuktl/bicycle/Cusa1.pdf

    Summary is 2 layer on the tire, 3 on the rim. The rolling resistance tests have also shown this to be better than less glue.

  6. #31
    Resident Alien Racer Ex's Avatar
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    Goof off works the best of anything I've found (don't use the latex paint stuff, they make two kinds) on Mastik. Well ventilated area, voc mask preferred, and chemical gloves. I use paper towels soaked in the stuff. Make a pass, then let it sit and soften. Scrub as it softens and it rolls off. Really old stuff use some Scotchbrite pad soaked in Goof Off. That's for carbon rims. 10-15 minutes per.

    On aluminum rims use a brass wire brush on a bench grinder. 5 minutes or less.

    I always clean the old glue off. You're looking for as much surface area contact between the tire and the rim to lower rolling resistance and maximize adhesion. Leaving old glue does a lot of bad things, but probably number one is you end up with a lot of surface area voids.

    Yes, you can half ass it and leave the old glue on, but it won't match what you'll get with a clean rim and tire.

    Depending on the tubular and rim I'll go 2-3 coats. Mostly two on the rim and coated base tape, add a third coat on bare tape. Use a foam brush for the rim and an acid/flux brush on the tire. Do it right and you should have the base tape sticking to the rim when you remove the tire. This means you>factory and that's the goal.

  7. #32
    Elitist carleton's Avatar
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    You'd think that someone would have developed a superior system than sew-ups with glue glue or clinchers by now.

  8. #33
    Resident Alien Racer Ex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carleton View Post
    You'd think that someone would have developed a superior system than sew-ups with glue glue or clinchers by now.
    Tubeless is getting there. The newest tires are (holy sheet) good, I've transitioned most of my road stuff over other than my rear disc and a set of uber light climbers which I'm pondering.

    Problem for track is that we run ridiculous pressures that for now only a glued on fully encased tire is going to be able to sustain without bad stuff happening.

    You figure 200 MPH 2000lb Daytona sleds are fine on tubeless, but they aren't counting grams or trying to build tires you can change on the side of an MUP.

    Zero doubt that it would be pretty easy to design a tubeless tire and rim combo for track that could handle 200 PSI and laugh. Also no doubt that you'd be a laughed at during the venture cap presentation:

    "Now I think we can move 300 units a year..."

  9. #34
    Elitist carleton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Racer Ex View Post
    Zero doubt that it would be pretty easy to design a tubeless tire and rim combo for track that could handle 200 PSI and laugh. Also no doubt that you'd be a laughed at during the venture cap presentation:

    "Now I think we can move 300 units a year..."
    Hahahahaha!

  10. #35
    Morton Nagrom_'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Racer Ex View Post
    Tubeless is getting there. The newest tires are (holy sheet) good
    Slightly OT but what are you rolling on, if you don't mind me asking?

    I went tubeless after my last set of GP4ks and am never going back.
    Quote Originally Posted by seau grateau View Post
    No offense but you're an idiot.
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  11. #36
    Resident Alien Racer Ex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nagrom_ View Post
    Slightly OT but what are you rolling on, if you don't mind me asking?

    I went tubeless after my last set of GP4ks and am never going back.
    IRC's. Roadlite 25c is like going from a street tire to a racing slick on a Superbike...and thats their training tire. The Crr is very very good. Too early to comment on durability, but initial impression is the best traction from any tire I have ridden. Ride quality is quite good as well.

    I did a bit of a BMX stuff during a crit over the weekend on them...made me smile.

  12. #37
    aka Tom Reingold noglider's Avatar
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    I'll be glad when tubulars die. Tubeless sound promising. Maybe someone figure out how to use them without goo, or at least without so much of it.
    You don't read my signature anyway, do you?

    Tom Reingold, noglider@pobox.com
    Residences: West Village, New York City and High Falls, NY
    Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog

  13. #38
    Resident Alien Racer Ex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noglider View Post
    I'll be glad when tubulars die. Tubeless sound promising. Maybe someone figure out how to use them without goo, or at least without so much of it.
    With true tubeless rims to tubeless tires you don't need sealant, at least not on some of the ones I've used. I've been running some Hutchinsons on Dura tubeless wheels without and it's like a butyl tube for holding pressure. Same with the IRC MTB tires on Mavics, though I threw some sealant in later.

    The conversions still need sealant though. Some of the other systems like Bontrager's road tubeless also need it...I think anytime there's a liner involved that's going to be the call vs. a solid rim.

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