Removing old tubbie glue down to bare rim
 

Kill me now, is there a good way to do this?

I'm putting new tires on my track training wheels, and I've had to switch glues from Panacement to Vittoria Mastik 1 as Panacement seems to have become unavailable in the US. I knew I was gonna have to do this sooner or later.

I have actually never done this job before, and **** me that glue does not want to leave! I started off by attacking it with a brass brush on a drill, but that was surprisingly ineffective and seemed to be taking as much of the rim material (Araya Gold's) as the glue. I then sat down with a rag and a can of acetone. If I continued that way I'd be elderly and divorced by the time I was finished.

Suggestions? I've assumed it's necessary to remove all the glue as I'm switching, but maybe it's not? Help.

I just did 4 sets of wheels last season- as I switched from Continental to Mastik 1..

The best thing I found was "Vm&P Naptha"
http://www.amazon.com/Klean-Strip-VM.../dp/B001G9TGQI

This stuff works better than all the other solvents I've tried (orange degreaser, acetone...)
The issue is they are not bringing it into California anymore. My Home Depot had some on hand- so once I realized how amazing this stuff was I went back and stocked up.. I'm on my last can now..

The way I got the best results was:
Put a lot of it on a rag- with the wheel in a truing stand turn the wheel while wiping with the rag.
I found it went better if I didn't scrub super hard in one spot- but just keep the rag soaked and apply pressure while spinning the wheel..

Once it starts to dissolve- focus on smaller areas....

You need to wipe the rim with acetone after, since the Naptha leaves a residue..

I'd say it takes about 25minutes a wheel- not really hard work... But it's time consuming.

On metal rims a heat gun can soften the glue so it wipes off. Then chemicals to do the final cleanup with chemicals. If you are just cleaning excess the remainder is usually a nice thin layer ready for new layers.
For acetone laying a soaked rag on the rim lets it soak into the glue before evaporating.

The heat gun and acetone soak are both questionable on carbon rims.

Thanks guys.

Any thoughts on combining the old Panacement with the new Mastik 1?

Don't

Dammit.

I look to Matchsprint@FGF for pretty much all technical/mechanical issues..

he recommended the Naptha and he recommends not mixing glue..

find the Naptha.. its the only way to go

How about on carbon? The race wheels will need this eventually.

same

of the wheels i did last season- 1 set was aluminum the others were carbon

Seems like naphtha is basically gasoline. Anybody use that? This is getting fun. <eye roll>

Why didn't I think of this before? WD-40= 60-80% naphtha!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WD-40

Edit: Naphtha also seems to pretty much be lighter fluid. I think you'll be ok after your stash runs out, Quinn.

Lacquer thinner works well but extended use will result in a second head growing. Tip is to get the slow thinner which evaporates a bit slower.

Front wheel done. WD-40 is not a magic bullet. Used a screw driver to scrape off the majority (there was a lot of build-up), then it was a hand-held wire brush alternating with a scotchbrite pad between applications of WD-40 via rag. Finished up with three acetone cleanings, then applied base layer of glue. That took a good 3 hours. Much less build up on the rear wheel so hopefully that won't take as long. Jeez.Lesson to others: Start with Mastik from the get go!

My brother is a mechanic... I take the wheels to him and he uses a high speed air grinder tool with a soft (copper) brush head on it to get the glue off.

Comes off like butter! You have to be careful not to go down the side of the rim though... it'll take decals off or leave a good mark down the side.

JMR

Sounds way harder than it should be.

Seemed that way too!

I need this done now or I'd go hunt for legit naphtha. They don't have it at my local hardware store.

It is harder than it should be, but since that's the way it is, maybe it's fair to say that it should be that hard. Circular reasoning, I know.

I think removing glue isn't really important until the buildup is so thick that you fear that it will come apart under tension or pressure. I don't know when that is. Has anyone ever had that happen?

The concern is that certain glues are chemically incompatible with other glues. It's difficult to know when this is the case, so it's safer to just remove it all when you are switching glues, as I am now. I have seen incompatibilities before, notably with Soyo glue.

Well, that's a scary thought. What happened with Soyo glue?

Nothing bad, actually. While living in Japan I was given a pile of basically new pro keirin take-offs, all of which had been glued on with Soyo. When I'd get a flat and put on another one, I noticed that the spots where the old Soyo had stayed stuck to the base tape had not stuck on well to the rim bed (I was using Panacement). But I never had an issue. The tires were on good.

Those keirin tires were sweet! Very light, no coating on sidewalls, fat and lively. I miss them. Funky old british valve was a pain, though.

It sounds like you're saying the glue could have separated from the rim if you had done something, but I don't completely follow. Do you think it could have happened if you had used a continuous coating of the glue?

So far, I haven't seen any reports of glue coming undone due to a thick buildup. Has anyone?

Again, different issue.

Maybe I didn't word my question well. Who has had a problem of any sort from excessive buildup?

I said "it sounds harder than it should be"
because with an optimal solvent this job took me 30min and not much muscle.. As apposed to 3hrs..

as for combining different glues-
the issue is not about "build up" it's about the glue on the tire not adhering to the glue on the rim..

If you apply glue to both tire and rim, won't the two layers stick together?

The issue is the adhesion of the new type of glue to the old glue already on the rim bed..

Naptha isn't very clean. You will want to use acetone or a hot strong detergent to clean the rims before using glue.

Ok then. The two don't stick together. And when has this happened to a cyclist?

I don't have an anecdote for you but i think most will accept that some glues don't play well together. The trick is knowing which glues need to be kept separate, and there's nobody who really knows this information as far as I can tell. So the prevailing wisdom is to just remove the old glue. Cuz you don't want to suddenly be tire-less when you come off the banking at ~40mph (or faster, depending who you are). That could hurt.

As far as your other question about how much glue build-up is too much: I've been told there is a point where too much is bad. I've only rolled one tire in my life. 1000 years ago in a crit (think down tube shifters, non-ironic mullets), a guy went down in front of me mid-corner. As I was sideways trying not to hit him and go down myself, another guy T-boned me. When I picked myself up, my rear tire had rolled. There was a lot of glue on that wheel, and that could maybe have been part of it. Or it could have been that impact while the bike was sideways levered the tire off no matter much or how little glue was on there.

Too much glue is probably bad, but too little is maybe worse. The right amount is probably..., enough. Are you looking for a gluing primer? There was a good one on the FGF page, but that page seems to be inaccessible or booby-trapped or something these days. Probably Carleton can scare one up, might be a useful sticky.

Try the following for a link on glue procedure complete with adhesion tests of different glues and procedures.
http://www.engr.ku.edu/~kuktl/bicycle/Cusa1.pdf

Summary is 2 layer on the tire, 3 on the rim. The rolling resistance tests have also shown this to be better than less glue.