Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Track Cycling: Velodrome Racing and Training Area Looking to enter into the realm of track racing? Want to share your experiences and tactics for riding on a velodrome? The Track Cycling forums is for you! Come in and discuss training/racing, equipment, and current track cycling events.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 02-08-14, 04:17 PM   #1
Baby Puke
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: San Francisco, CA
Bikes: Marin Stelvio, Pogliaghi SL, Panasonic NJS, Dolan DF3, Intense Pro24 BMX
Posts: 1,001
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Removing old tubbie glue down to bare rim

Kill me now, is there a good way to do this?

I'm putting new tires on my track training wheels, and I've had to switch glues from Panacement to Vittoria Mastik 1 as Panacement seems to have become unavailable in the US. I knew I was gonna have to do this sooner or later.

I have actually never done this job before, and **** me that glue does not want to leave! I started off by attacking it with a brass brush on a drill, but that was surprisingly ineffective and seemed to be taking as much of the rim material (Araya Gold's) as the glue. I then sat down with a rag and a can of acetone. If I continued that way I'd be elderly and divorced by the time I was finished.

Suggestions? I've assumed it's necessary to remove all the glue as I'm switching, but maybe it's not? Help.

Last edited by Baby Puke; 02-08-14 at 04:22 PM.
Baby Puke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-14, 06:48 PM   #2
Quinn8it
Senior Member
 
Quinn8it's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Hollywood
Bikes: Bianchi Pista, Bianchi Vigorelli
Posts: 956
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I just did 4 sets of wheels last season- as I switched from Continental to Mastik 1..

The best thing I found was "Vm&P Naptha"
http://www.amazon.com/Klean-Strip-VM.../dp/B001G9TGQI

This stuff works better than all the other solvents I've tried (orange degreaser, acetone...)
The issue is they are not bringing it into California anymore. My Home Depot had some on hand- so once I realized how amazing this stuff was I went back and stocked up.. I'm on my last can now..

The way I got the best results was:
Put a lot of it on a rag- with the wheel in a truing stand turn the wheel while wiping with the rag.
I found it went better if I didn't scrub super hard in one spot- but just keep the rag soaked and apply pressure while spinning the wheel..

Once it starts to dissolve- focus on smaller areas....

You need to wipe the rim with acetone after, since the Naptha leaves a residue..

I'd say it takes about 25minutes a wheel- not really hard work... But it's time consuming.
Quinn8it is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-14, 07:12 PM   #3
slindell
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Bikes:
Posts: 149
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
On metal rims a heat gun can soften the glue so it wipes off. Then chemicals to do the final cleanup with chemicals. If you are just cleaning excess the remainder is usually a nice thin layer ready for new layers.
For acetone laying a soaked rag on the rim lets it soak into the glue before evaporating.

The heat gun and acetone soak are both questionable on carbon rims.
slindell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-14, 07:41 PM   #4
Baby Puke
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: San Francisco, CA
Bikes: Marin Stelvio, Pogliaghi SL, Panasonic NJS, Dolan DF3, Intense Pro24 BMX
Posts: 1,001
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thanks guys.

Any thoughts on combining the old Panacement with the new Mastik 1?
Baby Puke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-14, 08:43 PM   #5
Quinn8it
Senior Member
 
Quinn8it's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Hollywood
Bikes: Bianchi Pista, Bianchi Vigorelli
Posts: 956
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Don't
Quinn8it is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-14, 10:50 PM   #6
Baby Puke
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: San Francisco, CA
Bikes: Marin Stelvio, Pogliaghi SL, Panasonic NJS, Dolan DF3, Intense Pro24 BMX
Posts: 1,001
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Dammit.
Baby Puke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-14, 11:31 PM   #7
Quinn8it
Senior Member
 
Quinn8it's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Hollywood
Bikes: Bianchi Pista, Bianchi Vigorelli
Posts: 956
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I look to Matchsprint@FGF for pretty much all technical/mechanical issues..

he recommended the Naptha and he recommends not mixing glue..

find the Naptha.. its the only way to go
Quinn8it is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-14, 11:51 PM   #8
Baby Puke
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: San Francisco, CA
Bikes: Marin Stelvio, Pogliaghi SL, Panasonic NJS, Dolan DF3, Intense Pro24 BMX
Posts: 1,001
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
How about on carbon? The race wheels will need this eventually.
Baby Puke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-14, 12:01 AM   #9
Quinn8it
Senior Member
 
Quinn8it's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Hollywood
Bikes: Bianchi Pista, Bianchi Vigorelli
Posts: 956
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
same

of the wheels i did last season- 1 set was aluminum the others were carbon
Quinn8it is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-14, 01:23 AM   #10
Baby Puke
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: San Francisco, CA
Bikes: Marin Stelvio, Pogliaghi SL, Panasonic NJS, Dolan DF3, Intense Pro24 BMX
Posts: 1,001
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Seems like naphtha is basically gasoline. Anybody use that? This is getting fun. <eye roll>
Baby Puke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-14, 01:34 AM   #11
Baby Puke
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: San Francisco, CA
Bikes: Marin Stelvio, Pogliaghi SL, Panasonic NJS, Dolan DF3, Intense Pro24 BMX
Posts: 1,001
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Why didn't I think of this before? WD-40= 60-80% naphtha!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WD-40

Edit: Naphtha also seems to pretty much be lighter fluid. I think you'll be ok after your stash runs out, Quinn.

Last edited by Baby Puke; 02-09-14 at 01:42 AM.
Baby Puke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-14, 03:53 PM   #12
slindell
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Bikes:
Posts: 149
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Lacquer thinner works well but extended use will result in a second head growing. Tip is to get the slow thinner which evaporates a bit slower.
slindell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-14, 04:15 PM   #13
Baby Puke
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: San Francisco, CA
Bikes: Marin Stelvio, Pogliaghi SL, Panasonic NJS, Dolan DF3, Intense Pro24 BMX
Posts: 1,001
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Front wheel done. WD-40 is not a magic bullet. Used a screw driver to scrape off the majority (there was a lot of build-up), then it was a hand-held wire brush alternating with a scotchbrite pad between applications of WD-40 via rag. Finished up with three acetone cleanings, then applied base layer of glue. That took a good 3 hours. Much less build up on the rear wheel so hopefully that won't take as long. Jeez.Lesson to others: Start with Mastik from the get go!
Baby Puke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-14, 06:18 PM   #14
JMR
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Australia
Bikes:
Posts: 261
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
My brother is a mechanic... I take the wheels to him and he uses a high speed air grinder tool with a soft (copper) brush head on it to get the glue off.

Comes off like butter! You have to be careful not to go down the side of the rim though... it'll take decals off or leave a good mark down the side.

JMR
JMR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-14, 09:52 PM   #15
Quinn8it
Senior Member
 
Quinn8it's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Hollywood
Bikes: Bianchi Pista, Bianchi Vigorelli
Posts: 956
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baby Puke View Post
Front wheel done. WD-40 is not a magic bullet. Used a screw driver to scrape off the majority (there was a lot of build-up), then it was a hand-held wire brush alternating with a scotchbrite pad between applications of WD-40 via rag. Finished up with three acetone cleanings, then applied base layer of glue. That took a good 3 hours. Much less build up on the rear wheel so hopefully that won't take as long. Jeez.Lesson to others: Start with Mastik from the get go!
Sounds way harder than it should be.
Quinn8it is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-14, 11:08 PM   #16
Baby Puke
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: San Francisco, CA
Bikes: Marin Stelvio, Pogliaghi SL, Panasonic NJS, Dolan DF3, Intense Pro24 BMX
Posts: 1,001
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Seemed that way too!

I need this done now or I'd go hunt for legit naphtha. They don't have it at my local hardware store.
Baby Puke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-14, 10:53 AM   #17
noglider 
aka Tom Reingold
 
noglider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: West Village, New York City
Bikes: too many
Posts: 27,108
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 222 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quinn8it View Post
Sounds way harder than it should be.
It is harder than it should be, but since that's the way it is, maybe it's fair to say that it should be that hard. Circular reasoning, I know.

I think removing glue isn't really important until the buildup is so thick that you fear that it will come apart under tension or pressure. I don't know when that is. Has anyone ever had that happen?
__________________
Tom Reingold, noglider@pobox.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog

Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
noglider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-14, 11:38 AM   #18
Baby Puke
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: San Francisco, CA
Bikes: Marin Stelvio, Pogliaghi SL, Panasonic NJS, Dolan DF3, Intense Pro24 BMX
Posts: 1,001
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by noglider View Post
It is harder than it should be, but since that's the way it is, maybe it's fair to say that it should be that hard. Circular reasoning, I know.

I think removing glue isn't really important until the buildup is so thick that you fear that it will come apart under tension or pressure. I don't know when that is. Has anyone ever had that happen?
The concern is that certain glues are chemically incompatible with other glues. It's difficult to know when this is the case, so it's safer to just remove it all when you are switching glues, as I am now. I have seen incompatibilities before, notably with Soyo glue.
Baby Puke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-14, 11:48 AM   #19
noglider 
aka Tom Reingold
 
noglider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: West Village, New York City
Bikes: too many
Posts: 27,108
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 222 Post(s)
Well, that's a scary thought. What happened with Soyo glue?
__________________
Tom Reingold, noglider@pobox.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog

Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
noglider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-14, 12:18 PM   #20
Baby Puke
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: San Francisco, CA
Bikes: Marin Stelvio, Pogliaghi SL, Panasonic NJS, Dolan DF3, Intense Pro24 BMX
Posts: 1,001
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by noglider View Post
Well, that's a scary thought. What happened with Soyo glue?
Nothing bad, actually. While living in Japan I was given a pile of basically new pro keirin take-offs, all of which had been glued on with Soyo. When I'd get a flat and put on another one, I noticed that the spots where the old Soyo had stayed stuck to the base tape had not stuck on well to the rim bed (I was using Panacement). But I never had an issue. The tires were on good.

Those keirin tires were sweet! Very light, no coating on sidewalls, fat and lively. I miss them. Funky old british valve was a pain, though.
Baby Puke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-14, 12:20 PM   #21
noglider 
aka Tom Reingold
 
noglider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: West Village, New York City
Bikes: too many
Posts: 27,108
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 222 Post(s)
It sounds like you're saying the glue could have separated from the rim if you had done something, but I don't completely follow. Do you think it could have happened if you had used a continuous coating of the glue?

So far, I haven't seen any reports of glue coming undone due to a thick buildup. Has anyone?
__________________
Tom Reingold, noglider@pobox.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog

Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
noglider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-14, 01:35 PM   #22
Baby Puke
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: San Francisco, CA
Bikes: Marin Stelvio, Pogliaghi SL, Panasonic NJS, Dolan DF3, Intense Pro24 BMX
Posts: 1,001
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Again, different issue.
Baby Puke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-14, 01:40 PM   #23
noglider 
aka Tom Reingold
 
noglider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: West Village, New York City
Bikes: too many
Posts: 27,108
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 222 Post(s)
Maybe I didn't word my question well. Who has had a problem of any sort from excessive buildup?
__________________
Tom Reingold, noglider@pobox.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog

Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
noglider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-14, 03:41 PM   #24
Quinn8it
Senior Member
 
Quinn8it's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Hollywood
Bikes: Bianchi Pista, Bianchi Vigorelli
Posts: 956
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I said "it sounds harder than it should be"
because with an optimal solvent this job took me 30min and not much muscle.. As apposed to 3hrs..

as for combining different glues-
the issue is not about "build up" it's about the glue on the tire not adhering to the glue on the rim..
Quinn8it is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-14, 05:31 PM   #25
noglider 
aka Tom Reingold
 
noglider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: West Village, New York City
Bikes: too many
Posts: 27,108
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 222 Post(s)
If you apply glue to both tire and rim, won't the two layers stick together?
__________________
Tom Reingold, noglider@pobox.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog

Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
noglider is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:37 PM.