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  1. #1
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    US team for Worlds

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/usa-...-championships

    No sprinters. What's happened to Jimmy Watkins? Retired?

  2. #2
    Italian Stallion mcafiero's Avatar
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    Retired.
    "Go out hard. When it hurts... speed up"
    I have a grande hairy chest and I am of Italian descent.
    2010 Cannondale Supersix
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  3. #3
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    Aw, man...

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    VeloSIRraptor
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    Why aren't there more men on the squad, funding issues?
    Are the typical track guys training for road racing to pay the bills?
    Quote Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
    If it comes down to a field sprint, you probably won't win, so don't let it.

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    Senior Member Impreza_aL's Avatar
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    go beth go!
    fried chicken and waffles.

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    Senior Member Impreza_aL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hida Yanra View Post
    Why aren't there more men on the squad, funding issues?
    Are the typical track guys training for road racing to pay the bills?
    there is no money in usa track cycling...
    fried chicken and waffles.

  7. #7
    VeloSIRraptor
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    well I get that -but there are... seven women going?
    I doubt they are paying their own way, maybe private sponsorships?
    Quote Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
    If it comes down to a field sprint, you probably won't win, so don't let it.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Quinn8it's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hida Yanra View Post
    well I get that -but there are... seven women going?
    I doubt they are paying their own way, maybe private sponsorships?
    When the list of USA World Cup qualifiers went out last fall there was 1 athlete that earned "level-1" funding- Hammer.
    Two Athletes earned "level-2" funding: 1 male and 1 female Sprinter- Mansker and Godby

    Quite a few more- about 3 per discipline earned "level 3" funding- which basically meant Pay-Your-Own -Way (buy your own ticket and pay USAC for the rest)

    its my understanding that the Level 2 athletes did not get their funding- despite applying.

    Anyone on that list could attend world cups with a Track Trade team- with no USAC funding

  9. #9
    VeloSIRraptor
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    Sorta figured it was something like that.
    Sad business for sure.
    Quote Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
    If it comes down to a field sprint, you probably won't win, so don't let it.

  10. #10
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    Perhaps we need to return to the model of pro road teams having a small track roster or even just one track rider on contract. This was the case with Gorski and 7-Eleven in the 80's, and maybe Vails was attached to the Raleigh pro team? That could work. If road teams could begin to see the benefit of this.

  11. #11
    VeloSIRraptor
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    lots of road teams have trackies on them, great skillset for things like "winning races", but seems that mostly the trackies get hired for their crit/sprinting skills and then don't go back to the boards much.

    Kiesse, Irvine & G. Bronzini are certainly exceptions to the rule.
    A few others: get cut loose occasionally, (Swift, MorkÝv, Viviani, Terpstra) but I think that is mostly for winter speedwork in specific events.

    Still, with no Olympics this year I'd think the WC start lists would be a bit more fleshed out- I'm a bit surprised.
    mmmm- this is making me think, be interesting to make a list of what Pro teams do/do not have an "occasional trackie"

    ***15' of "not focusing on my work later**
    UHC (Irvine),
    Wiggle (Bronzini),
    OPQS (Terpstra & Kiesse),
    Saxo (MorkÝv, but rarely),
    Cannondale (Viviani, but rarely),
    Sky (Swift, but rarely),
    Belkin (Bos & Brown, but rarely),
    Movistar Eloy Teruel Rovira just left the team, but had the track-specialist role for a long time)
    Greenedge (STACKS of ex-trackies, but no currently active ones)

    Reading interviews from Bronzini, Terpstra, et al- it seems like track has become specific enough that it is pretty hard to go back and forth anymore.
    Last edited by Hida Yanra; 02-19-14 at 12:08 PM. Reason: cleaning up
    Quote Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
    If it comes down to a field sprint, you probably won't win, so don't let it.

  12. #12
    Elitist carleton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hida Yanra View Post
    Why aren't there more men on the squad, funding issues?
    Are the typical track guys training for road racing to pay the bills?
    USA Cycling has money. I would imagine that they don't consider spending it on World Cup and World Championships "worth it" especially if there are no Olympic Qualification points on the line. I think that Olympic qualification points are only available in international comp 2 years before the Olympics. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Quinn8it View Post
    When the list of USA World Cup qualifiers went out last fall there was 1 athlete that earned "level-1" funding- Hammer.
    Two Athletes earned "level-2" funding: 1 male and 1 female Sprinter- Mansker and Godby

    Quite a few more- about 3 per discipline earned "level 3" funding- which basically meant Pay-Your-Own -Way (buy your own ticket and pay USAC for the rest)

    its my understanding that the Level 2 athletes did not get their funding- despite applying.

    Anyone on that list could attend world cups with a Track Trade team- with no USAC funding
    Yeah, it's really hard to qualify for the funding. Almost impossibly high.

    Quote Originally Posted by Baby Puke View Post
    Perhaps we need to return to the model of pro road teams having a small track roster or even just one track rider on contract. This was the case with Gorski and 7-Eleven in the 80's, and maybe Vails was attached to the Raleigh pro team? That could work. If road teams could begin to see the benefit of this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hida Yanra View Post
    lots of road teams have trackies on them, great skillset for things like "winning races", but seems that mostly the trackies get hired for their crit/sprinting skills and then don't go back to the boards much.

    Kiesse, Irvine & G. Bronzini are certainly exceptions to the rule.
    A few others: get cut loose occasionally, (Swift, MorkÝv, Viviani, Terpstra) but I think that is mostly for winter speedwork in specific events.

    Still, with no Olympics this year I'd think the WC start lists would be a bit more fleshed out- I'm a bit surprised.
    mmmm- this is making me think, be interesting to make a list of what Pro teams do/do not have an "occasional trackie"

    ***15' of "not focusing on my work later**
    UHC (Irvine),
    Wiggle (Bronzini),
    OPQS (Terpstra & Kiesse),
    Saxo (MorkÝv, but rarely),
    Cannondale (Viviani, but rarely),
    Sky (Swift, but rarely),
    Belkin (Bos & Brown, but rarely),
    Movistar Eloy Teruel Rovira just left the team, but had the track-specialist role for a long time)
    Greenedge (STACKS of ex-trackies, but no currently active ones)

    Reading interviews from Bronzini, Terpstra, et al- it seems like track has become specific enough that it is pretty hard to go back and forth anymore.
    Dan Holt (Team Type 1, UCI Continental team at the time) won the Points Race 2 years straight (2010-2011). Lapping the field both years. He really loved track racing and did it between his crit/road obligations. It appears that he got no help from USA Cycling in terms of sending him to Pan Am or World Cups. He never went to any event larger than Elite Nationals. I think his only option may have been if Team Type 1 registered as a UCI Track Trade Team.

    There is no incentive for US road pros to race track. If there were an incentive program like: Win the national championship and you get a spot in the national team and we'll send you to Pan-Am, World Cup, World Championship, Olympics...", you best believe that the level of track racing in the US would rise several notches INSTANTLY.

  13. #13
    VeloSIRraptor
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    Quote Originally Posted by carleton View Post
    Yeah, it's really hard to qualify for the funding. Almost impossibly high.
    <snip>
    Dan Holt <snip sad story>
    That squares with what D. Harm & Hegevary have told me. Harm is pretty bummed about the whole situation, but that ship sailed long time again. He was on the OUCH trade team going to WC races a few years ago- but that team flamed out spectacularly (even for cycling teams)
    Quote Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
    If it comes down to a field sprint, you probably won't win, so don't let it.

  14. #14
    VeloSIRraptor
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinn8it View Post
    Funding <Level 1>, <Level 2>, <Level 3>
    Quote Originally Posted by carleton View Post
    USA Cycling has money. I would imagine that they don't consider spending it on World Cup and World Championships "worth it" especially if there are no Olympic Qualification points on the line.

    Yeah, it's really hard to qualify for the funding. Almost impossibly high.
    Well, for what it is worth, Cari Higgens responded that USAC significantly supports women's endurance track racing, like, $$ and more.
    So, that's rad.
    Quote Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
    If it comes down to a field sprint, you probably won't win, so don't let it.

  15. #15
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    Our local (endurance) woman who's going has said she's gotten full funding for the trip.

  16. #16
    Elitist carleton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hida Yanra View Post
    That squares with what D. Harm & Hegevary have told me. Harm is pretty bummed about the whole situation, but that ship sailed long time again. He was on the OUCH trade team going to WC races a few years ago- but that team flamed out spectacularly (even for cycling teams)

    Funding Levels (from this doc: https://s3.amazonaws.com/USACWeb/for...n-Criteria.pdf)

    Level 1: Olympic Events

    For athletes qualifying via automatic criteria in Olympic events, USA Cycling will provide for coach
    class airfare to each World Cup leg, which includes three pieces of luggage: Two bikes and one suitcase
    each under 50lbs (excess weight or additional bag charges are responsibility of the athlete). As well as
    providing all competition and casual clothing, lodging, food, ground transport at event location, all
    mechanical/race support, and TravMed Insurance throughout duration of the event with USA Cycling.

    Level 2: Olympic Events

    Athletes qualifying for Olympic events or via USA Cycling Selection Committee discretionary
    nomination will be responsible for a “Team Service Fee” payable on the date outlined in this document or
    before. The Service Fee for each World Cup event is $500.00. This fee includes: competition and casual
    clothing, lodging, food, ground transport at event location, all mechanical/race support, TravMed
    Insurance throughout duration of the event with USA Cycling. Level 2 funded athletes are responsible
    for their airfare and excess baggage expenses.

    Level 3: Non-Olympic Events

    Athletes qualifying automatically for non-Olympic events or via USA Cycling Selection Committee
    discretionary nomination will be responsible for a “Team Service Fee” payable on the date outlined in this
    document or before. The Service Fee for each World Cup event is $750.00. This fee includes: competition
    and casual clothing, lodging, food, ground transport at event location, all mechanical/race support,
    TravMed Insurance throughout duration of the event with USA Cycling. Level 3 funded athletes are
    responsible for their airfare and excess baggage expenses.
    So, only Olympic events are fully funded at the Level 1. Non-Olympic qualifier events, not only do the athletes have to pay their own way, they have to pay USA Cycling $500-750 per event for "clothing, lodging, food, ground transport at event location, all mechanical/race support".


    With this in mind, USA Cycling will prioritize our selection of the UCI World cups as follows:

    Level 1 Funding

    1. Any athlete placing in the top three (3) at the 2013 World Championships in this event and
    category. In order to maintain their position on the Team, the eligible athlete(s) must continue
    to demonstrate the ability to be medal capable at the World Championships during the current
    racing season. This evaluation will be based on results from major international competition,
    current ranking on the appropriate UCI Individual Classification and time standards where
    applicable.

    2. The winner of the 2013 USA Cycling Elite National Track Championships provided the race is
    held in its entirety under UCI regulations and the athlete has met the 2013-2014 USA Cycling
    International Sprint/Keirin Time Standards in a UCI CL 1-3 event, a USA Cycling NTC event
    (http://www.usacycling.org/ntc) or the USA Cycling National Championships between the
    dates of October 1, 2012 and September 10, 2013.

    Level 2 Funding

    3. Any U.S. eligible athlete who has met the 2013-2014 USA Cycling International Sprint/Keirin
    Time Standards in a UCI CL 1-3 event, a USA Cycling NTC event
    (http://www.usacycling.org/ntc ) or USA Cycling National Championships between the dates
    of October 1, 2012 and September 10 , 2013. If more than one athlete meets this criterion, the
    athlete with the highest UCI Eligibility Ranking as of September 10, 2013 will earn the
    nomination. In the event that more than one athlete is tied on UCI Eligibility Ranking as of
    September 10, 2013 the highest ranked athlete at the 2013 USA Cycling National Sprint
    Championships will earn the nomination. Up to one (1) athlete will be nominated through this
    criterion. Up to one (1) athlete will be nominated through this criterion.

    Level 3 Funding

    4. If positions remain, then athletes may be nominated via discretion based on the criteria and
    principles detailed in the document "USAC Process for Selecting Athletes to Protected Events"
    which may be found on the USA Cycling website at
    http://www.usacycling.org/forms/sele...principles.pdf.

    The Time Standard for Sprint/Kerin:

    11.520 Flying 200M for Women
    10.291 Flying 200M for Men
    (cannot be at altitude)



    Quote Originally Posted by Hida Yanra View Post
    Well, for what it is worth, Cari Higgens responded that USAC significantly supports women's endurance track racing, like, $$ and more.
    So, that's rad.
    The million dollar question is: How do our other enduros or sprinters get in on that?

    You can see how GB and AUS are sending youngsters to these events now. The first World Cup after the Olympics they had several new names, youngsters, on their rosters. Presumably to do a long prep for Rio.

  17. #17
    Senior Member Quinn8it's Avatar
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    The World Cup qualifiers list went out- with funding levels.

    im just not sure anyone got any of the funding they earned

  18. #18
    Elitist carleton's Avatar
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    I firmly believe that if we want to raise the level of track racing in the US (sprint, mass start, or endurance) we need to offer incentive. A jersey doesn't seem to be incentive enough to get pros or the very talented to want to (and be able to) participate.

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