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Old 03-03-14, 09:47 PM   #101
Baby Puke
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I was gonna do that when you posted a vid of you on a trainer.
Moment of weakness. I'm better now.
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Old 03-04-14, 05:55 AM   #102
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As a rule I do whatever Racer Ex says...
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Old 03-08-14, 10:12 PM   #103
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Tried the new position on the track today. After using for warm up, I moved the skis forward 5mm and this helped comfort. Then used em for a rolling 1km and a rolling 500 and they seemed fine. During the efforts I forgot that anything had been changed. Got the thumbs up from a teammate, but I'll try to get more video when I'm able and post it up here.
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Old 03-08-14, 10:50 PM   #104
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i was having an exchange with a friend of mine who is an Elite Athlete and Coach- he advocates the more rear Sprint Position, and was telling me to move in that direction. His logic was pretty sound- and ive actually been migrating back a bit anyway.. when i asked him how you adapt it to aero position he said:
If you ride further back, you have to bring the bars up to keep the hip angle open. He said he opts to ride further forward and get the aero benefit of the lower bar position..

just thought id pass it on- seemed like a good source and relevant..

EDIT:
btw BabyPuke- this was not directed at your position per se.. just keeping the positional dialog going.. i thought your hip angle looked good in the last vid.

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Old 03-08-14, 11:37 PM   #105
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Right on. I think the guys that get more forward can get far lower than I am, e.g., Billington's kilo position. Mine is still experimental. Did the warm-up on an 82, but my efforts today were over geared on a 104, so that might have been masking any problems a bit. I'll just keep with it in the coming weeks and try a race gear on it and see how it is.

I'm interested to hear how the more rearward set-up works for you. What does your coach say about it?
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Old 03-09-14, 12:00 AM   #106
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we'll see..

i feel like ive played around with things so much that im not sure whats best..

thinking i will go get an aero fit soon..
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Old 03-09-14, 12:54 AM   #107
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One can only tinker so much. In the end we have to ride it, eh?
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Old 03-09-14, 11:14 AM   #108
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I agree that you have to ride it... I settled on a position and rode it all last year. Now that I have not been training on my aero position since NOV, and I just changed frames, it seems like a good time to bring in another eye to dial in the position before I adapt to it..
Kilo gains will be small for me from here on- so I have to focus on all the parts of the equation to squeeze out tiny improvement.
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Old 03-14-14, 08:38 AM   #109
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Considering hip-angle discussions, this is pretty interesting. Nicely shown with his kit design, too:


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Old 03-14-14, 10:19 AM   #110
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Considering hip-angle discussions, this is pretty interesting. Nicely shown with his kit design, too:


I would love to know the dimensions of his bike. Especially TT length vs his height.
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Old 03-30-14, 12:30 PM   #111
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So, I put it off long enough and finally dusted off the aero bars for first time since last year (and first time on new frame). I know this photo won't be enough, but it's all I got right now. Appreciate any feedback. Felt very uncomfortable at first, but by the end of the session, it felt pretty nice.

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Old 03-30-14, 12:33 PM   #112
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Are those Racer Ex's racing shoes he used at Gila?
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Old 03-30-14, 03:06 PM   #113
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Awesome thread, finally got around to reading it. I don't have a track pic but here is a most recent one from an outdoor TT



This was a 'non-UCI' check race so I shoved the seat forward about 3cm literally minutes before the race. Normally its the 5cm back (because I HAVE to have the 80cm on the bars, Im 6'4) and sitting on the last inch of it.


Here is the advice I have from riding a TT bike a lot:
-unless you are playing by the rules, push the seat way forward, raise it up if you have to. Otherwise get used to sitting on the freaking edge. This puts a lot of weight on the front which takes getting used to, but you will have more power at a lower front height (more aero). Its like climbing stairs standing up vs in a squat. Also get yourself a nice short TT saddle.
-a TT bike is not supposed to be comfortable, just comfortable 'enough' to get through whatever length your event is
-there are no gloves as fast as no gloves
-you cannot overheat in a short TT, forget about vents and cooling. This goes to the comfort thing.
-rarely can you trading aero for power pay off. 5% more aero is faster than 5% more power in any steady state effort.
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Old 03-30-14, 05:01 PM   #114
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So, I put it off long enough and finally dusted off the aero bars for first time since last year (and first time on new frame). I know this photo won't be enough, but it's all I got right now. Appreciate any feedback. Felt very uncomfortable at first, but by the end of the session, it felt pretty nice.

I'd like to see an action shot, but this looks fast to me. Other than the socks, of course...
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Old 03-30-14, 08:40 PM   #115
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Vance, what is your seat setback distance and what is the distance from the centerline of the crank to the tip of the aerobars? Coming from the Jim Manton ERO school of fit, I suspect your can raise your saddle and have more clockwise rotation. Does your back ever bother you when riding or racing?
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Old 03-30-14, 08:55 PM   #116
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Vance, what is your seat setback distance and what is the distance from the centerline of the crank to the tip of the aerobars? Coming from the Jim Manton ERO school of fit, I suspect your can raise your saddle and have more clockwise rotation. Does your back ever bother you when riding or racing?
Hermes, back never bothers me. It bothers me to look at it... it's always rounded like that. But it has never been an issue.

The saddle is flirting with the legal limit. I think right now it is sitting 1cm on the illegal side. That Fizik Arione has such a long nose, it's hard to get it back far enough. Crank to tip looks like 83cm (quickie measure). I wondered if an extra 1-2cm stem would help. I did feel just slightly cramped, but wasn't sure if that was just not being used to aero position.
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Old 03-30-14, 11:26 PM   #117
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Been playing with saddle height and setback...and scooting back into the saddle:


Still waiting on my new frame with a longer top tube...

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Old 03-31-14, 01:29 AM   #118
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Been playing with saddle height and setback...and scooting back into the saddle.

Still waiting on my longer TT frame...
You are ankling quite a lot. Is this your usual pedal style (aside from learning how to pedal again)? Could indicate saddle a little too high/ pedal reach a little too far.
If you're an adherent of the KOPS principle, your setback/scootback looks just right .

do you race with fairly straight arms as in the vid, or is this a roller video-shoot thing?
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Old 03-31-14, 10:29 AM   #119
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You are ankling quite a lot. Is this your usual pedal style (aside from learning how to pedal again)? Could indicate saddle a little too high/ pedal reach a little too far.
If you're an adherent of the KOPS principle, your setback/scootback looks just right .

do you race with fairly straight arms as in the vid, or is this a roller video-shoot thing?
Good eye on the ankling. I've never noticed that before.

I don't race with straight arms. Just a roller-shoot thing. Being that I do most of my bike work on the spin bike (even the light efforts), I'm not smooth on the rollers yet for this season.

My power hasn't fallen with this new position. Actually, for my seated 30s efforts, power is up 20%.
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Old 03-31-14, 10:41 AM   #120
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FWIW, I had Jim Manton of ERO Sports at Velo Sports Center check my sprint position for team sprint. Initially, I set up in the studio and he was not happy with my setup on the trainer but wanted to see it during a hard effort on the track. I did a flying one lap on the track and he said under full power I change my posture and it was fine.

This was also true when I did my aero testing at ERO. My CdA improved when I was at pursuit power versus riding tempo. And CdA from a physics point of view is the same at all speeds. Most racers CdA degrades as they increase power but for some reason mine improves. All that meant was that I had to do a couple of hard efforts during each 10 lap test.
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