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  1. #1
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    Zipp wheel on chinese carbon frame

    Hi, guys. I got a Zipp Disc wheel and this chinese carbon frame. When the wheel arrived from US I tried out on the frame and the axle does not fit in the rear dropout properly. It gets stuck and I can´t adjust it. Any ideas to solve this? I also tried a Mavic Ellipse and a training wheel.
    2014-03-08 23.33.32.jpg

    The previous owner said that he got no issues about that. Thanks.

  2. #2
    aka mattio queerpunk's Avatar
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    Sorry to hear about your gear problems.

    This is what bike shops are for, not internet forums - it's pretty hard to tell what your problem is from a single photo from 8 feet away.
    the hipster myth.

    i practice vagabondery.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by queerpunk View Post
    Sorry to hear about your gear problems.

    This is what bike shops are for, not internet forums - it's pretty hard to tell what your problem is from a single photo from 8 feet away.
    You spent your time typing but you couldn´t click on the image.
    Last edited by brunospimenta; 03-18-14 at 08:38 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brunospimenta View Post
    You spent your time typing but you couldn´t click on the image.
    If you can see anything related to the rear dropout on the picture that you posted (yes in full size) you have got good eyes.

    You said that you tried different wheel but not if they worked or not.

    Can you tell which part of the axle that gets stuck, is it the axle itself or the aouter or inner nut.

    Some frames have removable insert in the dropouts, if your frame is one of those are they seated properly.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by kkxaq View Post
    If you can see anything related to the rear dropout on the picture that you posted (yes in full size) you have got good eyes.

    You said that you tried different wheel but not if they worked or not.

    Can you tell which part of the axle that gets stuck, is it the axle itself or the aouter or inner nut.

    Some frames have removable insert in the dropouts, if your frame is one of those are they seated properly.
    None of them worked. It is the axle itself. I does not move freely in the dropout and I´m not able to adjust the chain. Didn't know about removable insert but I'll check it out. Well, it fits in my T1. I might check the space in the dropout in both frames. Thank you.

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    I can kind of see in the pic what you are talking about. It looks like it goes into the drop out but only a few mm, won't slide in freely.

    If it fits in your T1 obviously the axle is fine and perhaps the frame was damaged somewhere. Was it shipped without a wheel in the rear? I could see weight on the seat stays with no rear wheel warping the frame just enough to bring those drop outs 1/2mm too close, which would give you this issue.

  7. #7
    aka mattio queerpunk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brunospimenta View Post
    You spent your time typing but you couldn´t click on the image.
    Actually, I did.
    the hipster myth.

    i practice vagabondery.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Brian Ratliff's Avatar
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    Time to bring out the file (as in: file down the dropout)? "Chinese carbon frame" kind of predicts these types of problems. Bad tolerances is what it is. Is it the axle diameter or the dropout width that is the issue?
    Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
    "If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter

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    Senior Member VanceMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff View Post
    Time to bring out the file (as in: file down the dropout)? "Chinese carbon frame" kind of predicts these types of problems. Bad tolerances is what it is. Is it the axle diameter or the dropout width that is the issue?
    I agree it sounds like bad/bent dropout. That is one of the more common generic track frames, tons of them sold, so it isn't anything related to the frame design.

  10. #10
    Senior Member VanceMac's Avatar
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    Which reminds me, I had to replace some dropout screws on my last frame. The first ones were not EXACT (maybe an extra 1mm sticking out on the inside), which was enough to prevent the wheel from freely sliding fully into dropout.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Brian Ratliff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMac View Post
    I agree it sounds like bad/bent dropout. That is one of the more common generic track frames, tons of them sold, so it isn't anything related to the frame design.
    Not a design issue; a manufacturing issue. I've had a couple chinese frames (in my case, aluminum) from Performance, and none of them had good tolerances for, say, seatposts and dropouts.
    Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
    "If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter

  12. #12
    Senior Member VanceMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff View Post
    Not a design issue; a manufacturing issue. I've had a couple chinese frames (in my case, aluminum) from Performance, and none of them had good tolerances for, say, seatposts and dropouts.
    Yes, I was agreeing with you (albeit in an obtuse way).

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    Elitist carleton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff View Post
    Time to bring out the file (as in: file down the dropout)? "Chinese carbon frame" kind of predicts these types of problems. Bad tolerances is what it is. Is it the axle diameter or the dropout width that is the issue?
    +1

    Maybe a file will shave off enough to get the axle in there.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff View Post
    Not a design issue; a manufacturing issue. I've had a couple chinese frames (in my case, aluminum) from Performance, and none of them had good tolerances for, say, seatposts and dropouts.

    I was once told by a mechanic that he loves working on new models because they are made in fresh molds and all the tolerances are tight. As a model becomes a few years down the road, they are using the same molds which over time get warped and tolerances get bigger and bigger, to the point installing BBs can be a pain on a brand new frame. When you pay $400 for a carbon frame its hard to expect they are fixing/replacing molds...ever.

  15. #15
    Elitist carleton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gtrob View Post
    I was once told by a mechanic that he loves working on new models because they are made in fresh molds and all the tolerances are tight. As a model becomes a few years down the road, they are using the same molds which over time get warped and tolerances get bigger and bigger, to the point installing BBs can be a pain on a brand new frame. When you pay $400 for a carbon frame its hard to expect they are fixing/replacing molds...ever.
    I can see that.

    I used to work at a shop that refused to work on "Walmart bikes" (very low-end bikes) because the derailleurs were nearly impossible to tune. The mechanic would spend an inappropriate amount of time working on the bike.

    I've experienced issues with some of those $200 Ebay Visp type frames at the track. A junior team bought a fleet of them for their riders. It was impossible to get the rear wheel straight on some of them because the track ends were not parallel with the rest of the frame. The wheel was cocked to one side 1 degree which made it nearly touch the dropout at all times on all gears.

    As many have noted before, with budget frames and components, when they work, they work...but when they don't they don't and you have little recourse. It's not like you can take it back to your local shop and get a replacement in a week.

  16. #16
    JMR
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    I actually had this exact issue with one particular Zipp disc on my Teschner Track Pro.

    The odd thing was, I had my own Zipp 900 which fit with no issues, then I borrowed a friend's newer Zipp 900 (mine was wrecked in a crash) this was the one that wouldn't go in/out of the dropout without getting jammed... then I bought myself a new Zipp Super9 and it is fine.

    Really odd, but sounds like you have the same thing!

    JMR

  17. #17
    JMR
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    BTW, it seemed to be the axle diameter was slightly larger on the one that jammed...

    JMR

  18. #18
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    Hi guys. Sorry for the late reply. Busy at work. I'll check the dropout and the wheels. But the previous owner said tha he had no issues with it.

  19. #19
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    So, the Cervelo T1 dropout has roughly 11 mm. The chinese frame has 9 mm. The dropout is probably replaceable because it is fixed with bolts.

  20. #20
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    nice looking frameset -- I would've never guessed it was 400 bucks

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