Race Tactics
01-26-15, 07:31 PM
#101
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Thanks Carleton. I see how it started. I still question Dmitriev's taking him so high afterward. The video posted was the same one I've seen. The full coverage includes the stuff that happens before and after the rounds, which often includes commentator interpretations and officials' reactions. Was hoping to see that.
It all happened so fast. The elapsed time from the first bump to the last was only 2 seconds!
I really think he was just trying to keep the bike up.
01-27-15, 12:50 AM
#102
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Dmitriev probably would have been relegated for coming out if Hoogland hadn't won the heat.
Last edited by bitingduck; 01-27-15 at 12:54 AM.
01-27-15, 08:02 AM
#103
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Miss n Out:
- BE CAREFUL. I can't stress this enough. People surge then slow down while others are still surging in and wheels overlap.
- Don't try to go wide and stick your nose in and try to "thread the needle". If you guys are 5-wide all it takes is for 1 guy to waver a bit to make a mess.
- BE CAREFUL. I can't stress this enough. People surge then slow down while others are still surging in and wheels overlap.
- Don't try to go wide and stick your nose in and try to "thread the needle". If you guys are 5-wide all it takes is for 1 guy to waver a bit to make a mess.
and particularly rough if you are the innocent party that gets taken down by someone's stupid move
02-19-15, 02:46 PM
#104
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I've always said that the 500M is one event where Aerobars and Drop Bars are an even choice. More evidence:
I hear people say, "Oh, for the 500, you MUST use aerobars..." NOPE.
Also, notice the Russian's forced low posture that she holds during the entire event, even when she's out of the saddle. Her upper body is as low as she'd be in aerobars. I'd venture to guess that she's actually lower than she'd be if she'd used aerobars!
I hear people say, "Oh, for the 500, you MUST use aerobars..." NOPE.
Also, notice the Russian's forced low posture that she holds during the entire event, even when she's out of the saddle. Her upper body is as low as she'd be in aerobars. I'd venture to guess that she's actually lower than she'd be if she'd used aerobars!
02-19-15, 03:11 PM
#105
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I've always said that the 500M is one event where Aerobars and Drop Bars are an even choice. More evidence:
I hear people say, "Oh, for the 500, you MUST use aerobars..." NOPE.
Also, notice the Russian's forced low posture that she holds during the entire event, even when she's out of the saddle. Her upper body is as low as she'd be in aerobars. I'd venture to guess that she's actually lower than she'd be if she'd used aerobars!
I hear people say, "Oh, for the 500, you MUST use aerobars..." NOPE.
Also, notice the Russian's forced low posture that she holds during the entire event, even when she's out of the saddle. Her upper body is as low as she'd be in aerobars. I'd venture to guess that she's actually lower than she'd be if she'd used aerobars!
02-20-15, 12:44 AM
#108
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It'll be interesting to look at the cadence of the top riders in that 500 tt, vs the earlier ones. (which was not going to happen while watching it live!) Anna Meares appeared to have a distinctly higher cadence/ lighter gear than most of the riders before her.
02-20-15, 08:25 AM
#109
Senior Member
If you can hold the high cadence, a lighter gear on the 500 and kilo can be advantageous because the start plays a disproportionate role in determining time because you are going slow. In the 500 especially, you are spending a full third of the race just getting up to speed.
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Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
02-20-15, 09:30 AM
#110
aka mattio
Pervis, man!
He does an amazing job of holding his position and ensuring he's got a clear line to the front - he maintains as Levy goes to the front, he checks Awang, Dawkins is obviously marking Pervis... he just leaves that gap and keeps an eye on everything and then when Shurshin goes, Pervis just opens it up, takes a run at Levy, and kind of counts on an evenly matched field behind him to clutter up the route to the front in the last lap.
That's a masterful keirin right there.
He does an amazing job of holding his position and ensuring he's got a clear line to the front - he maintains as Levy goes to the front, he checks Awang, Dawkins is obviously marking Pervis... he just leaves that gap and keeps an eye on everything and then when Shurshin goes, Pervis just opens it up, takes a run at Levy, and kind of counts on an evenly matched field behind him to clutter up the route to the front in the last lap.
That's a masterful keirin right there.
03-14-15, 08:07 PM
#111
Full Member
squat much?!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkkTSVVrPYk<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkkTSVVrPYk" target="_blank">
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkkTSVVrPYk<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkkTSVVrPYk" target="_blank">
Last edited by sgtdirt; 03-14-15 at 08:13 PM.
04-05-15, 04:26 PM
#113
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It seems that Marymoore just hosted a lecture series regarding race tactics. I'd love to hear more about this. At the local level, a lot of race tactics are either learn as you go or loosely tied together maxims ("you always do ____" and "Never ____") without the rationale or context.
Do any of the other tracks have any lectures type clinics?
Do any of the other tracks have any lectures type clinics?
04-06-15, 04:35 PM
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In the early days of the wooden velodrome in Carson (presently known as Velosports Center) Roger Young had a weekly race class on saturdays that was all about tactics and practicing them. It was show up and pay $20 for the track time and the class, and it made the difference for me between being a terminal 3 and becoming a competitive 2. It was generally a short lecture with drills and feedback. If you want the same thing now you have to pay for his full coaching (if he has space available). He teaches a lot more than just a bunch of loosely tied together maxims.
04-07-15, 01:53 PM
#115
VeloSIRraptor
Jenny Reed
Zak K
Kenny Williams
Adrian Heg/Dan Harm (won most of the madisons worth winning for a couple of years in the US & Canada)
They are pretty decent tacticians, and each has taught courses on their strengths - all but one or two of the clinics have been informative beyond the basic mantras of "go real hard at the end of a scratch race".
Now that I'm thinking about it, Kenny's section on scratch race tactics was fascinating.
04-07-15, 08:08 PM
#116
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It helps that local to us are:
Jenny Reed
Zak K
Kenny Williams
Adrian Heg/Dan Harm (won most of the madisons worth winning for a couple of years in the US & Canada)
They are pretty decent tacticians, and each has taught courses on their strengths - all but one or two of the clinics have been informative beyond the basic mantras of "go real hard at the end of a scratch race".
Now that I'm thinking about it, Kenny's section on scratch race tactics was fascinating.
Jenny Reed
Zak K
Kenny Williams
Adrian Heg/Dan Harm (won most of the madisons worth winning for a couple of years in the US & Canada)
They are pretty decent tacticians, and each has taught courses on their strengths - all but one or two of the clinics have been informative beyond the basic mantras of "go real hard at the end of a scratch race".
Now that I'm thinking about it, Kenny's section on scratch race tactics was fascinating.
04-09-15, 12:14 PM
#117
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Enduro here - what's the best way to hang in a keirin vs the big sprint boys? Jump early and hope you can stay off the front? Surf wheels and hope for 2nd place?
04-09-15, 12:21 PM
#118
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Keirin is stacked towards big boys. It's sorta like a short scratch race, but an enduro can't run off the front early and time-trial for the win. So, your best option is to pick the right horse, fight for their wheel, and follow them into second place.
04-09-15, 01:10 PM
#119
aka mattio
Also, put on a big gear, tuck in behind somebody with a great draft. Anticipate any jumps - accelerate before them if necessary. Stay sheltered and try to ride that shelter into a good finish.
04-09-15, 01:39 PM
#120
Senior Member
Seriously though... yes, you can jump early... but you'd better look like Chris Hoy at his prime relative to your competition. Basically, there is no way your initial jump is going to get much of a gap (because everyone's already going 30mph), so you are left with riding sprinters off your wheel, which is hard at under 2 laps. If you do have a gap, it's because the gap is intentional and someone is looking to shoot your wheel in the final corner.
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Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
04-11-15, 06:34 PM
#121
VeloSIRraptor
aaaand they just announced another bunch of classes on different topics- they are being well received, enough people signing up.
04-12-15, 06:49 PM
#123
VeloSIRraptor
I doubt there are remote-options, but you could email/ask Bilko? We do have a couple professional camera guys who are also long-term racers who have helped do other video features like the "get to know marymoor" video from last year.
I've moved to a velodrome-less town in the middle of nowhere, so only know what I hear on the fb chatter from friends who are still there.
Looks like Jon Fraley is teaching a sprinting session, there's a madison clinic (not sure who will be teaching, tons of qualified folks in town that would be great), a women/junior "welcome back" clinic, and an open "welcome back" clinic.
marymoor fb group - scroll down to see individual events.
I've moved to a velodrome-less town in the middle of nowhere, so only know what I hear on the fb chatter from friends who are still there.
Looks like Jon Fraley is teaching a sprinting session, there's a madison clinic (not sure who will be teaching, tons of qualified folks in town that would be great), a women/junior "welcome back" clinic, and an open "welcome back" clinic.
marymoor fb group - scroll down to see individual events.
04-23-15, 09:52 PM
#124
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Watch as Kenny (first GB rider) leads out Hoy. Hoy can't go around in the 4th lane. Then Hoy does an absolutely amazing move.
(Please don't try this at home)
(Please don't try this at home)
04-23-15, 11:35 PM
#125
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If you can hold the high cadence, a lighter gear on the 500 and kilo can be advantageous because the start plays a disproportionate role in determining time because you are going slow. In the 500 especially, you are spending a full third of the race just getting up to speed.
of the two best guys in the US in my age group, one uses aerobars, the other drops. Very different looks on the bike.