Steve Whitlatch 

I got back into riding 3 years ago after I quit smoking (2 1/2 packs a day for 30 years). I had a riding partner that I could not keep up with. I had other friends that I went to rides with that I could not keep up with. I never thought I would ever be able to keep up.

I was driven to get faster. Better tires and seat position helped, but drive has proven the best remedy. Telling my leg muscles to shut up and resisting the urge to let my muscles dictate my speed and endurance was the biggest hurdle that offered the biggest gains. Bike fit and efficient pedal stroke played a part as well. Ride hard and push yourself. So much of it is mental. Your body can do more than you think it can. Over time your speed will increase as well as your endurance. I can now beat my riding partner. If I listened to my leg muscles I would never keep up. I still have a long way to go though.

There is no magic pill, just hard work. If you are content to ride at your pace, find another riding partner that also rides your pace. There is nothing wrong with riding slower. It is more about what is fun for you.

nkfrench 

I'd make sure the saddle is positioned high enough.
btw telling somebody that they aren't trying hard enough (just because they ride slow by your standards) is pretty insulting.

chaadster

Well, that's not what I said, although I did raise the question.

I'd be curious to know by which "standards" *you* would consider a sustained 12mph to *not* be slow for an able-bodied, adult cyclist on a sport ride aiming to up her speed possibly to match a 19mph cruising speed attained by her 90lb overweight partner?

12mph is well below the threshold where aerodynamic drag becomes the primary resistance force.

Please include an explanation of power requirements in your reply, if you wouldn't mind, because I don't get how my 9yr old kid can cruise at 10mph with fairly little effort on geared BMX bike, but 12mph is the max sustainable for an experienced, adult cyclist.

And I'm not trying to be a smart-ass, but it's just my experience that virtually any able-bodied cyclist can produce the power to hold 12mph. My cycling training studio is all a power based program, and there are university aged to folks in their 70s there, both sexes, many of whom I've also ridden with on the road, so I'm very confident in saying we're not talking about a physical limitation here.

In any case, the OP wants to keep up, so what's the point of *****footing around the most likely factors? If they're so easily insulted as you assume, let them say as much and I will apologize for trying to help.

RIP Chainrings

Get a powertap and you will smoke him before you know it after some training

Garfield Cat

What happened to the Original Post guy?

chaadster

Oy vey

nkfrench 

I was referring to my own experiences when I said it was insulting to be told I wasn't trying hard enough. I've received some angry comments from bike club members to that effect.

Sorry to bore others with my personal history:
I do not have a power meter. I use Polar metrics and the power calculations off my garmin/strava. I don't look at the computers much during the ride - I review it afterward. I use my breathing rate and perceived exertion during the ride.

In 2012 I rode a 17 mile out-back route averaging 15.5 mph. HRM showed avg HR 153, max 174, :52 in "zone 4" (80-90% maxHR). (At one point that year weather was more favorable and I averaged 17mph that route.)
In 2015 I rode the same route averaging 13.4 mph. HRM showed avg HR 155, max 168, 1:17 in "zone 4" (80-90% maxHR). strava est power avg 123W.
The route has rolling hills, 700 ft climbing. There are 7 hard stops. Some pavement is badly cracked and rough, other areas are smooth.

Same bike, weather, conditions. Similar ride data. I was an Athena in 2012, 60# overweight. Then I had significant weight gain and fewer miles ridden the past 3 years. My estimated power is lower. My heat tolerance is worse.
Do you think I was not trying during either ride? Or just on the 2015 ride where I was slow.
I also have a very slow cadence. I tried 3 years to spin faster with very poor results. Some people see that and equate that to loafing.

When I am riding in-town with more intersections and more climbing I am averaging 11mph. Yesterday I hit 35 intersection stops in 18 miles and 750' climbing.

I got into cycling in 2008. I have ridden over 20,000 miles in that time. I have done several 100k rides, rode RAGBRAI one year. I am not a novice.
I have natural competitive urges and measure myself against previous accomplishment, ability to surpass people I ride with, and strava leader boards.
I do have interest in self-preservation. I don't ride hills where I can't maintain min 4mph or cadence 40. I call it a day when I get debilitating heat cramps, heat exhaustion and feel sick. I stop at stop signs and red lights. I temper speeds on congested mups (which I avoid). I don't want to need a 4 hour nap after a ride.

I know I have much room for improvement, particularly with my weight. I need to ride longer and more often. I should figure out the saddle issues that cause irritation. I should get my bike trainer assembled and use it. I should manage my time and energy better.

But please no comments that I am loafing a given ride when I am trying.

end rant.

chaadster

Cool story, sis. I wasn't talking to you, or about you, though.

And again, I didn't *tell* the OP she was loafing or not trying, rather I *asked* if she was working hard, a totally legit question given she neither said she was (as you did above) nor gave any relevant info regarding her effort level (as you also did above, with HR zones).

As for you, I don't know what your problem is; you didn't say you had one that you wanted solved. The OP did, she said she can't keep up with her ride mate, and wanted to know what to do so she could. So what do you expect me to tell you about your non-issue?

nkfrench 

I am inferring that your posts apply to slow riders in general, not just OP.

There are a lot of great suggestions for OP on this topic.

I am not asking for advice, just providing feedback.

My goals? Since you asked: ride faster (16mph avg would be nice, my area is not flat), ride longer distances, climb better, and keep up with the friends I used to ride with. Not too much different than OP's. My bike isn't holding me back.

Carbonfiberboy 

This might be interesting to those who are following this thread:

My wife and I ride a tandem. This is the only bike she rides outdoors. Hiking and backpacking are the only activities we do together where it's possible to observe our respective efforts at the same task. We just returned from a 10-day backpack trip over what is perhaps the most strenuous section of the Pacific Crest Trail. When we went in, I was carrying 50 lbs., my wife was carrying 40 lbs. We ate out of her pack until all her food was gone, then we ate out of mine. Coming out, my pack weighed 33 lbs., hers weighed 25 lbs. Climbing, she held her HR to 90%-95% of LTHR, while mine was 55%-65% of LTHR. Some of these climbs took 3 hours with breaks every hour. Descending and on the flat, her HR was usually 84% of LTHR, mine usually <50% LTHR. We hiked 8 days in a row, hiking 4-7 hours each day. We were both tired with hurting legs by the end of the hike. We don't recover like we did when we were younger.

After we returned, we took one day off, then went for a hard tandem ride over a course we've done many times. Out of 13 Strava segments, we got 7 PRs. Notably, Stoker was able to stand with me without immediately blowing up. For the first time, our HRs were almost the same standing. They're always about the same sitting. Obviously a lot of our new-found power was Stoker's.

It's not possible for us to train this hard on the tandem. We'd overtrain immediately. However I think the larger number of large muscles employed when hiking spreads out the training load over the whole body, so that the aerobic load becomes more sustainable.

We've gone on a number of bike tours, both group and supported and solo unsupported. We always get a performance bump from a week or so long bike tour, but never a bump as big as this one from this backpacking trip. We've been doing 10-day backpack trips for ~40 years, but this one was the most strenuous one we've ever done.

Something to think about if you're trying to get stronger on the bike.

DMC707

------------------

Heathpack 

It doesn't really take dreaming to be able to ride with men, it just kind of depends on who you want to ride with. I ride with avid recreational male cyclists all the time, no problem there. Provided you don't have any physiologic limitations, you can definitely ride at that level by paying attention to what you do, training systematically and consistently. Once you get beyond that however, if you were to want to ride with men who are also systematically training (which usually means racers), you may have more trouble hanging and it may not be possible for you. Some women can get that strong, many cannot or don't want to be bothered doing what it would take if they themselves aren't racing.

You describe your bike as 'not super pro' and my comment there would be that people tell you the bike and the equipment doesn't matter and this is patently untrue. You can buy speed to some extent, and because women are working in the realm of lower overall power production than men, small changes can make a relatively bigger difference for a woman. If you're climbing a lot, equipment weight matters. If you're riding more in the flats, aero matters (which for a road bike mostly means ride in the drops more). Don't sweat it if you can't afford expensive bike stuff. But if the expense is not a hardship for you, you can likely make some gains with a more 'pro' bike set-up.

As a woman, if you want to ride with men, sometimes you just have to ride and train smart. Most men that don't think to much about cycling just power through everything by relying on greater strength. You can build endurance so that you can ride longer than them. You can work on your aerobic capacity so that you can ride more intensely than your male companions for longer periods of time- you might be able to output less power but if you can ride at 85% intensity for 90 min whereas your male friends can only ride at 70% intensity for that time, you might be able to ride pretty equally. Work on bike handling and learn to draft off of other people, develop your pacelining skills. There's tons of work-arounds. Learn your strengths and develop them fully. People always want to work on their cycling weaknesses and its not really wrong to do this to some extent. But IMO you're going to get the biggest bang for your buck by fully developing your natural strengths.

If it makes you feel any better, I've only been cycling a few years and I easily beat the boys on a 5 mile section through a canyon on today's ride, the ride through this canyon frequently turns into a race and today was one of those days. It's do-able, you just have to give it time and some focused effort. In my case, systematically training has nothing to do with wanting to hang with the boys, that just happens to be a side effect of what I'm doing for other reasons. But don't feel like it takes a dream, just time and effort.

lizcatd

I realize I should have been clear, I didn't necessarily mean riding with men but riding with stronger, faster cyclists... though this often means men as I don't often see lady cyclists. That said, I do feel at somewhat of a disadvantage being a female and a tiny one at that. I hate admitting that but sometimes I just don't feel very strong regardless of what I do.

Something I'm very much looking into. I love my current whip but I think it's best for long endurance rides or commuting. Its certainly a bit heavier and definitely not aero. I don't really have too much of a budget so I'm content to keep training and training and then seeing the gains when I can afford a lighter road bike. (Never rode an aero bike but I would love to try one out sometime). Also not entirely sure where I want to take my training - hills? flats? cyclocross? So I need to figure that out first.

That seems like really solid advice. I also think it would be more satisfying building on what I like doing and what I'm good at.

Well done! *high five*

Anyway, your reply was basically the best thing I could read right now. I rode super well this summer and should be proud of my accomplishments. I'm just establishing a new set of goals now. I was afraid I wouldn't be able to reach them because of my size (I'm like 98 lbs) and my age (early 30s?) and I have somewhat lofty ambitions but I'm so looking forward to trying

Heathpack 

Sorry, I should have been clearer myself. You in no way need an aero bike. In the flats, just get used to riding in the drops and staying out of the wind by drafting.

As far as your size goes, it's really something of an advantage. The important thing is power to weight ratio, most specifically when climbing. Yes, men have more muscle but you don't need as much as they do to accomplish the same thing, because you are lighter. You are also smaller so you will get a better draft off of people. And being smaller no one will want to draft off you, so when pacelining it will be fine by everybody if you take shorter pulls. That's free watts, there.

It was hard for me to really understand this but my limitation is not really muscle strength. Most cyclists (even small ones) have plenty of muscle to accomplish whatever task. The big limitation for most of us is aerobic conditioning, and by that I mean the really high end stuff. You can easily work that all winter on a trainer.

If you like climbing and have good climbs near you, I would seriously consider focusing on becoming a climber. Your size will put you at a huge advantage as a climber. The other good thing is that IMO riding a trainer and long sustained climbs are similar in that with both, once you stop pedaling, your wheels stop spinning pretty quickly. This is a different type of effort than putting out power on the flats because once you stop pedaling, you coast for a bit and your momentum keeps your speed up. So flat riding is more about continually topping off power whereas climbing is about continually sustaining it. Just like on the trainer.

If you decide to go down the climbing path, start saving your pennies now because eventually you will want a lighter bike.

chasm54

Hope ypu don't mind some encouragement from a rather large, elderly male (so the polar opposite of your situation) but I want to reinforce what Heathpack said. If you want a role model, google Emma Pooley. She's 5'2" and 106lbs but was one of the best climbers and time-triallists of recent years, her power/weight ratio was sky-high.

Plus, your age is absolutely not a limiting factor, you can get a lot faster and stronger in your thirties and even your forties. Cycling is easy on the joints and connective tissues so if you keep working on the engine you can stay fast into old age. I didn't ride at all for about fifteen years in my thirties and forties, got back on the bike aged 49 and rode my first Cat4 race at 57. Wasn't going to pull up any trees but I could hang with the pack in non-age related Cat3/4 races. And here's another role model. A couple of years ago I raced against a gentleman who had, the week before, completed a 40k TT in 64 minutes. He was 72 years old.

lizcatd

Not at all!! Thank you for taking the time to reply so thoughtfully and for reinforcing the things I really should have asked about ages ago. Also well done on racing Cat3/4! I had thought about seeking advice on possible limitations based on age/body type for months but just felt too shy. I'm also somewhat new to cycling and so didn't even know how to ask. I'm really glad I did.

lizcatd

I wish I had decent climbs near me but it's all flat! So I tend to resort to intervals (lots of great rolling hills and steep hills). But I'm hoping I can get the effect of a good climb on a trainer. Also because it seems the most beautiful cycling journeys are in the mountains (a distant dream of mine is to bike across Japan, which I gather is rather mountainous).

Also I learned how on climbs your pedals stop the hard way running out of gas (literally just bonking) on a super steep hill clipped in and just tipping over. Admittedly it was a hilarious, goofy, slow fall but a solid lesson.

...and I'm already fantasizing about the (several) bicycles I want to buy so yes, the savings account needs some love for the next little while

Carbonfiberboy 

I ride with a 98 lb. woman who used to just kill it on the climbs. Unfortunately, she developed RA but she still rides in her late 60's. Her biggest problem was always crosswinds. She rides at a very high cadence, faster than anyone else I've every seen. She probably climbs at ~100 and has a big cassette. Don't know if that has anything to do with her weight or is just her talent. She also sucks wheel better than anyone else I've ever seen. Impossible to drop, even descending on our tandem.

chasm54

I've done a long cycle tour starting and finishing in Toronto and yes, your immediate surroundings are pretty flat. So flat that on a loaded tourer I was able to keep up with some roadies out training - much to their irritation! But you don't have to travel all that far from home to get into hilly territory - upstate New York, or Charlevoix in Quebec. Devoting a vacation or two to touring in the hills can be great training.

lizcatd

Yes crosswinds are terrifying. My bike isn't even that light and I've been blown over a few times. I've already enjoyed the benefits of drafting. It hadn't occurred me (though seems terribly obvious now) that drafting would be more efficient for me. It kinda felt like cheating but it's saved me on a few rides already. I'll continue working on my cadence, too.

Ohh I would love to go on a little trip to Charlevoix or upstate NY. Once I've saved up a bit of money and next season starts I'll be sure to ask around. And while I lack for long steady climbs there are still some great hills I can muck around on in the city for the time being.

(Side note, I'm trying to squish all my quotes into one reply. Still getting used to the forums so I'm sorry if that format is incorrect.)