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  1. #1
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    Need major help with heart rate

    okay, anyways I just signed on with a cycling coach and his program seems to be pretty good however I have no idea what I'm doing when it comes to heart rates and all the books and internet related articles that I've read just confuses me more. I just did a MHR test that my coach wanted me to do and send the results to him, he wanted me to build my HR up so he could set the zones for me however I have a difficult time keeping my heart rate from fluctuating and on top of that I got a MHR of 186 full out on my bike but when I'm out running I can get up to 191 without much of a problem. My coach says "I'm not too sure how good the accuracy is with them or maybe your fitness isn't where we need it to be just now" so he wants me to do it again at the end of the month and use some zones that he set for me till then, some of the lower zones I've never even trained in. Now, I'm not dissapointed that he said my fitness isn't where we want it because I wouldn't have hired him if it was but I'm at a loss, any advice on understanding this stuff would be much appreciated.

    Also, if it helps at all about 3 months ago I weighed 190 and then I told myself that I suck and need to lose weight, since then I'm now at 170 and can't seem to loose anymore weight no matter how much excersize I do. I changed my diet from all unheathly foods to all organics which is where I lost most of my weight from, that and excersize. I'm 5'7" tall.

    thx a bunch,
    Dave

    P.S. if I confused anyone let me know and I'll try to sort things out for ya
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  2. #2
    On Your Right ZackJones's Avatar
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    My HR is always higher when I run than it it when I cycle, but I don't worry too much about it. Since you hired a cycling coach he should only be concerned with your HR during cycling, unless of course you're interested in multi-sport training.

    When you get your HR zones from the coach post them here. Also, what are your goals for cycling? Training for racing involves a completely different set of work outs than training for weight loss/overall fitness does.

    Finally, talk it out with your coach. You're paying for his services so take advantage of it.
    "You never fail, you simply produce results. Learn from these" - Anonymous

  3. #3
    Focus on the future alison_in_oh's Avatar
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    I'm not going to explain this right, so I'm not going to try, but basically the more upright you are, the higher your heartrate. Your max on a bike is not the same as your max running -- I'd do your calculations off of the bike figure.

  4. #4
    Senior Member skydive69's Avatar
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    As Joe Friel points out in his book, "The Cyclist's Training Bible," MHR for cycling and running is different. One will be able to attain a higher MHR running. Correlate your zones to your cycling HR.
    www.brokennecktobrokenrecords.com

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by DRLski
    okay, anyways I just signed on with a cycling coach and his program seems to be pretty good however I have no idea what I'm doing when it comes to heart rates and all the books and internet related articles that I've read just confuses me more. I just did a MHR test that my coach wanted me to do and send the results to him, he wanted me to build my HR up so he could set the zones for me however I have a difficult time keeping my heart rate from fluctuating and on top of that I got a MHR of 186 full out on my bike but when I'm out running I can get up to 191 without much of a problem. My coach says "I'm not too sure how good the accuracy is with them or maybe your fitness isn't where we need it to be just now" so he wants me to do it again at the end of the month and use some zones that he set for me till then, some of the lower zones I've never even trained in. Now, I'm not dissapointed that he said my fitness isn't where we want it because I wouldn't have hired him if it was but I'm at a loss, any advice on understanding this stuff would be much appreciated.

    Also, if it helps at all about 3 months ago I weighed 190 and then I told myself that I suck and need to lose weight, since then I'm now at 170 and can't seem to loose anymore weight no matter how much excersize I do. I changed my diet from all unheathly foods to all organics which is where I lost most of my weight from, that and excersize. I'm 5'7" tall.

    thx a bunch,
    Dave

    P.S. if I confused anyone let me know and I'll try to sort things out for ya

    First, it's great that you're educating yourself and you got a coach. Props up to you.

    Next, these are the questions you should address with your coach. Shoot, you're paying your coach, so they should be able to answer all your questions. Schedule a session with him (I assume your coach is male) where you can sit down with him and have him explain the terminology associated with heart rate training, then ask him to put all the terminology into perspective with what you're doing with your training and your goals. If your coach is any good, he should be able to answer all your questions.

    Taking on a coach just isn't about having the coach put together a training program and you blindly follow it without knowing what the goals are and what you should expect to accomplish. Tell him this, and ask him to detail out your training plan.

    Just looking at the response your coach gave you, and given the shape you're in, I would think your coach should have known that cycling Max hr is different from running max hr. That was a pretty illogical response, unless you are a professional athlete who's been working towards building up your riding max hr towards your running max hr, which is totally reasonable.... but only if you've been doing that over years. Is your coach usa cycling certified? Check www.bicyclecoach.com and http://www.usacycling.org/coaches/search.php for a list of certified coaches. Something just tells me this guy may be a little bit off. You shouldn't have to come to the forums for such a basic question. That should have been answered by your coach off the bat.

    As far as weight loss, I would suggest you increase your intensity or time. Or try to incorporate crosstraining into your routine. All of these things will help you to get through your plateau. Everyone goes through a plateau, but you have to recognize when you are in one so you can make the necessary changes to your training program. Exercise is about progression. If you don't always work towards progressing your exercise, you will plateau.

    Good luck, and great job so far!

    Koffee

  6. #6
    Senior Member jazzy_cyclist's Avatar
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    I am confused -- your message suggests that he (the coach) has made some sort of judgement of your fitness based on max heart rate. Higher max heart rate doesn't mean better fitness. It's just a way to correlate the intensity of your workouts to you.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzy_cyclist
    I am confused -- your message suggests that he (the coach) has made some sort of judgement of your fitness based on max heart rate. Higher max heart rate doesn't mean better fitness. It's just a way to correlate the intensity of your workouts to you.
    Which is why I really think this is another reason why this guy's credentials as a coach should be questioned.

  8. #8
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    he's not usa cycling certified that I can see but his credentials seem pretty good coaching wise. he's from coachyourself1.com, from the new hampshire area
    '02 Bianchi XL Boron (Training/Crit Bike)-'06 Specialized Stumpjumper (MTB)
    '05 Orbea Lobular 100 (RR/CR Bike)------'05 Colnago MIX (RR/CR Bike)
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  9. #9
    I get hit by cars Crash Dummy's Avatar
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    You've probably stopped "losing" weight in name only. At the start of a dedicated exercise regimen, your body is willing to give up its fat stores more easily. Thus, you lose weight easily. At the same time, your muscles are growing and getting stronger. Its true when they say muscle weighs more than fat. Its denser and full of proteins. Muscle growth tends to be at a slow and constant pace, though it is faster at the beginning of an exercise regimen.

    Anyway, once you've lost a good about of body fat, your rate of fat loss declines. At some point, the rate of fat loss and muscle gain become approximately equal. You don't seem to be losing overall body weight, but in reality, you are losing fat and just replacing it with muscle and therefore becoming healthier. It can be disheartening on the scale, but you're still making gains. Don't give up!

  10. #10
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    You really have several issues that need clarification. I'm retired now but did exercise testing in a human performance laboratory, thousands of exercise stress tests on treadmill, dozens on a stationary bike, blah, blah so I have some background. Also, my wife is an RD and sometime triathlete.

    "I have no idea what I'm doing when it comes to heart rates and all the books and internet related articles that I've read just confuses me more."
    you need Heart Rate Monitor Training by John L. Parker, Jr. (used Amazon or locally for you). Heart rates on a bike are always lower than running. Maximum heart rates are a function of age assuming no heart disease is present. MHR goes down with age. You cannot make it higher with exercise. If your coach doesn't know that then you're paying the wrong guy. This book will also explain the importance of training at MUCH lower heart rates for part of the time. I can attest that with total skepticism I tried Parker's plan and progressed more and faster than I had in 20 years of off and on fitness goals.

    "I changed my diet from all unheathly foods to all organics which is where I lost most of my weight from, that and excersize. I'm 5'7" tall." Organics are fine, if you can afford them. You need 2 things now to continue toward your body composition/weight goals: a scale in grams and ounces to weigh everything you swallow but water; if you can't weigh it you can measure it's fluid volume; Nutribase, a diet and exercise program that is hands down the best for the money available (only works on PCs) to track your diet and lots of other things.

    I don't want to go on as I don't know if you like the sound of all this or want to know more of what I believe to be true. Let me know. I have no financial interest in anything I mention and get nothing back from recommending anything I mention. My preferences for products are the results of trial and error testing in the laboratory of my own body and mind. Good luck.
    Steve

  11. #11
    On Your Right ZackJones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by srtraveler
    I'm retired now but did exercise testing in a human performance laboratory, thousands of exercise stress tests on treadmill, dozens on a stationary bike, blah, blah so I have some background.
    Steve,

    Based upon your experience is there a fairly accurate way to predict your AT for running based upon your AT for cycling? My AT on the bike is 151 and I'm wondering what it may be running. I know there are differences with running AT being higher and testing is the only way to know for certain, but if you were to hazard a guess what would it be?
    "You never fail, you simply produce results. Learn from these" - Anonymous

  12. #12
    Senior Member skydive69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by srtraveler
    You You cannot make it higher with exercise.
    Even more specificially, you CAN make your maximum HR LOWER with exercise. Many people intuitively (albeit incorrectly) believe that with increased fitness MHR increases when in fact it does the opposite. I used to believe that until I read a few treatises on the subject explaining the way the heart in fact responds to training.
    www.brokennecktobrokenrecords.com

  13. #13
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    The Ph.D exercise physiologist I worked with the most would never be more specific than "your MHR on the bike will be 10-12 beats lower than when you're running." AT is a function that can only be determined when all respiratory gases are being measured during a maximum exercise effort. You then have a heart rate wherein the use of oxygen and the presense of carbon dioxide are equal. There is a lot more to it than that but getting too compulsive and detailed about all this is best left to the elite who will be trained and monitored by same. Find your MHR. Use a reliable heart rate training book to get your zones. I mentioned my favorite above and others mentioned are just as good. Make a plan and follow it. Learn from your experience. Tell me if I helped or confused with this answer.

  14. #14
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    I would suggest getting a better coach. One who is USA Certified would be cool too. Seriously.

    Koffee

  15. #15
    On Your Right ZackJones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by srtraveler
    The Ph.D exercise physiologist I worked with the most would never be more specific than "your MHR on the bike will be 10-12 beats lower than when you're running."
    This works for me, although I disagree with the need to find your MHR and base your training off of it. When I did my sub-maximal test I hit a MHR of 169 and on some rides after that I have hit as high as 178. I'm training for long distance endurance fitness (half IM & IM triathlon) so spend little time training above my AT, unless I go ride with skydive69, then I'm above my AT for the entire ride
    "You never fail, you simply produce results. Learn from these" - Anonymous

  16. #16
    Name's Ash ...housewares Doctor Morbius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZackJones
    ... unless I go ride with skydive69, then I'm above my AT for the entire ride
    Who isn't? I can probably hang with him for about 0.003 minutes on a good, ahhhh better make that GREAT day.




    If anyone is interested, I've attached a heart rate zone calculator spreadsheet that I made up a while back. It has several versions of them all in one place, i.e. Peter Keen, Sally Edwards, Karnoven Formula. Pretty much covers whatever floats yer boat. These are all based on MAX HR and not AT.
    I did not achieve this position in life by having some snot-nosed punk leave my cheese out in the wind. - Ed Rooney


    It's not that I'm lazy. I'm just highly motivated to RELAX!!

  17. #17
    Duathlete Flynn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DRLski
    okay, anyways I just signed on with a cycling coach and his program seems to be pretty good however I have no idea what I'm doing when it comes to heart rates and all the books and internet related articles that I've read just confuses me more. I just did a MHR test that my coach wanted me to do and send the results to him, he wanted me to build my HR up so he could set the zones for me however I have a difficult time keeping my heart rate from fluctuating and on top of that I got a MHR of 186 full out on my bike but when I'm out running I can get up to 191 without much of a problem. My coach says "I'm not too sure how good the accuracy is with them or maybe your fitness isn't where we need it to be just now" so he wants me to do it again at the end of the month and use some zones that he set for me till then, some of the lower zones I've never even trained in. Now, I'm not dissapointed that he said my fitness isn't where we want it because I wouldn't have hired him if it was but I'm at a loss, any advice on understanding this stuff would be much appreciated.

    Also, if it helps at all about 3 months ago I weighed 190 and then I told myself that I suck and need to lose weight, since then I'm now at 170 and can't seem to loose anymore weight no matter how much excersize I do. I changed my diet from all unheathly foods to all organics which is where I lost most of my weight from, that and excersize. I'm 5'7" tall.

    thx a bunch,
    Dave

    P.S. if I confused anyone let me know and I'll try to sort things out for ya

    Most athletes' heart rates are a bit lower on average when they bike as opposed to running. I do most of my endurance training within my aerobic heart rate zone. On the bike this zone is 158-168. While running this zone is 163-173. My MHR is about 190. I have always been "taught" that endurance training should be done within your aerobic heart rate zone.
    “Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving.” -Albert Einstein

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