Peanut Butter over a Gel
#51
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The picture I posted was from the 2010 world championships (I think he won). The one you posted was from an 11min TT in this year's Tirreno-Adriatico. I didn't spend a lot of time looking for pictures so it's possible he doesn't use a bottle any more for longer TTs.
Here's an article where they found a benefit to ingesting carbs during a 1 hr TT: Carbohydrate-electrolyte feedings improve 1 h time trial cycling performance. - PubMed - NCBI
edit: It looks like everyone on the podium at last year's world championships used a bottle on the downtube: 2015 road-cycling-world-championships photos stage-07
Here's an article where they found a benefit to ingesting carbs during a 1 hr TT: Carbohydrate-electrolyte feedings improve 1 h time trial cycling performance. - PubMed - NCBI
edit: It looks like everyone on the podium at last year's world championships used a bottle on the downtube: 2015 road-cycling-world-championships photos stage-07
The biggest issue with this study is that it's not measuring speed, which is what's important to you in a time trial. The endpoint of this study was how long it took to perform X amount of work. Completing the work more quickly is not the same thing as going faster. For example, I do interval workouts on my TT bike, frequently up a 3-5% grade. At that grade, I can output slightly more power on a road bike than a TT bike. But if I stay in my aerobars I'm faster because of improved aerodynamics. So my time to complete X amount of work is shorter on the road bike than the TT bike. But that does not make the road bike the tool to choose for a TT, because speed is what matters.
If they were to repeat this study using TT efforts on the road and they were to find the carbohydrate-ingesters were faster, that would tell you something. Because the reality is the physical act of drinking can slow you down. For example in this study, the subjects drank by lifting a regular water bottle to their lips and drinking the way any of us would on a road bike. But to drink on the TT bike you're going to be drinking out of a straw to which you have to apply various degrees of negative suction, depending on the system. I had an interesting conversation with a German Ironman waiting for my fitter one day, former European pro soccer player, so a pretty fit guy. Hilarious to hear him telling the story of his drinking system and how he would suck and suck and suck and barely get a sip of water. The question becomes what aero penalty are you paying if you try to drink from a down tube bottle (big one) and what respiratory penalty are you paying to try to drink when you need to breathe? These things will affect speed and the price you pay might turn out to be bigger than the benefit you get from the carbohydrate solution. Meaningful results will come from testing in efforts on the road.
The other big question becomes whether you can train to mitigate these effects. It says nothing in this study as to what kind of nutrition the subjects normally consume on a bike, especially during a TT. These cyclists were likely not specifically trained to fasted high intensity efforts. If they were, would you see the same results? Am I better off training fasted and not taking the potential speed penalty for drinking? That question is not answered by this study.
As to the downtube bottles, their presence does not mean the cyclist used them to drink from during a race. They are likely there solely for the aero benefit. The difference between the world champions and me is that all of their stuff is aero-tested. They know that bottle gains them watts. For me, I'd be guessing. Some aero stuff tests faster on everybody. Some aero stuff only tests faster on some people. A bottle is not a bottle. So just because bottle X works on Fabian's bike doesn't mean it will be faster for me necessarily.
So my strategy is to do the things that are pretty much guaranteed to make me faster. I am waiting to buy helmet X which is not yet on the market because it tests fast on everyone. I have the shoe covers that test fast on everyone. The skin suit that is fast on everyone. I'm working on getting my hand position higher because that pretty much makes everyone faster. If I become aware of a bottle that makes everyone faster, I'll put it on my bike. It might happen, I'll be working with fitter this summer to improve my TT position before I start racing again in the fall.
All of which is fascinating stuff but not exactly what OP was asking about. However it does touch on concepts important to him. There's theorectical considerations as to what's "best". But there's also logistical and practical limitations the influence what you actually can eat & drink while on the bike.
#52
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Didn't mean to imply that you were. The evidence I quoted for improved performance is somewhat equivocal so there's no guarantee you'd see an improvement.
That said, I don't think taking a drink from a regular bottle will have any measureable effect on your times either. I don't care for TTs but did try grabbing a bottle from an invisible aerobar position on the way to work today so I suspect with a little practice you could take a drink without having to sit up.
That said, I don't think taking a drink from a regular bottle will have any measureable effect on your times either. I don't care for TTs but did try grabbing a bottle from an invisible aerobar position on the way to work today so I suspect with a little practice you could take a drink without having to sit up.
#53
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Hi all just an update. I found that a combination of Gummy bears and pretzels seem to be the thing that works for me for the on the bike race energy plan. tried this in a long 6 hour training ride where i was riding hard.
all goes down better then Gels , no stomach distress or any emergency pooping at all. so far so good. figure i leave an update here since this forum went for some time.
all goes down better then Gels , no stomach distress or any emergency pooping at all. so far so good. figure i leave an update here since this forum went for some time.
#54
Senior Member
Hi all just an update. I found that a combination of Gummy bears and pretzels seem to be the thing that works for me for the on the bike race energy plan. tried this in a long 6 hour training ride where i was riding hard.
all goes down better then Gels , no stomach distress or any emergency pooping at all. so far so good. figure i leave an update here since this forum went for some time.
all goes down better then Gels , no stomach distress or any emergency pooping at all. so far so good. figure i leave an update here since this forum went for some time.
#55
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Thanks for the feedback, CB32. The pretzels are probably the most important part of the equation with their salt content. Provided you are rehydrating regularly, they keep the electrolyte balance in your stomach and small intestine to enable fast uptake of the sugars in the gummy bears.
Cheers
#56
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Thread Starter
for the potassium? should i be taking that in as well during the race?
i am doing the gummy bears and pretzels while drinking water from camelbak and in bottles gatorade.
i am salty sweater so i loose lots of salt. so the more sodium i take in, works for me. as i found out
thanks
i am doing the gummy bears and pretzels while drinking water from camelbak and in bottles gatorade.
i am salty sweater so i loose lots of salt. so the more sodium i take in, works for me. as i found out
thanks
#57
Senior Member
The potassium has more to do with cell function than keeping sodium balance in the bloodstream. It's no biggie on a 6-hour ride. Bananas have been the go-to solution for potassium intake for many cyclists; they are reasonably high in energy, quite easy to digest, have fibre for the intestines, and the potassium bonus.
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If you keep the bacon from curling, you can fit dozens of strips in a jersey pocket.
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