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  1. #1
    Theodore Roosevelt's idol TheKillerPenguin's Avatar
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    Out of curiosity, how fast does LT training usually start taking affect?

    To give you an idea of my progress, there's a climb I do locally 2.2 miles 1000ft, somewhere around 9% grade. A month ago I could climb it but i'd have to stop midway. Then, two-three weeks ago I could climb it but would have to be in 39-26 and alternating between sitting down and standing. Today, I did it in 39-23 sitting the whole way.

    Terry, my58vw, anyone who does LT training and climbing, does it sound like I'm on schedule?

    Edit: Doh! I just realized this is the wrong forum! Mods, can ya do a penguin a favor and move it to training/nutrition?
    Last edited by TheKillerPenguin; 05-17-05 at 04:05 PM.
    Is trick from science!

  2. #2
    Just another pretty face Herk_Tuff's Avatar
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    What is "LT Training?"
    "The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing." - Socrates

  3. #3
    Bananaed Brillig's Avatar
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    Lactate Threshold Training
    If once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to think little of robbing; and from robbing he comes next to drinking and Sabbath-breaking, and from that to incivility and procrastination.
    - Thomas De Quincey

  4. #4
    Senior Member skydive69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PenguinDeD
    Out of curiosity, how fast does LT training usually start taking affect?

    To give you an idea of my progress, there's a climb I do locally 2.2 miles 1000ft, somewhere around 9% grade. A month ago I could climb it but i'd have to stop midway. Then, two-three weeks ago I could climb it but would have to be in 39-26 and alternating between sitting down and standing. Today, I did it in 39-23 sitting the whole way.

    Terry, my58vw, anyone who does LT training and climbing, does it sound like I'm on schedule?

    Edit: Doh! I just realized this is the wrong forum! Mods, can ya do a penguin a favor and move it to training/nutrition?
    Lactate threshold takes years to build - that's why cyclists reach peaks at such late stages of their careers. The average miler peaks at 27, and as you know the average cyclist pro peaks much later. VO2max pretty much reaches its peak after about a year of hard training, but it takes years of training to do the same with LT. LT is the limiting factor, because a high LT enables you to take advantage of a high V02max.
    www.brokennecktobrokenrecords.com

  5. #5
    Just another pretty face Herk_Tuff's Avatar
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    Can you recommend a good resource to learn more about Lactate Threshold and V02 Max?
    "The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing." - Socrates

  6. #6
    more ape than man timmhaan's Avatar
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    the part that confuses me is how strength and LT work together. my guess is that your strength increases much faster than your LT level, but i'm having a hard time getting my head around it. i mean, as the original poster indicated, his performance went up pretty rapidly...does that mean he just got stronger, or did his LT level move up as well? or maybe it's just taking him longer to reach his LT level now...but what would slow that down? so many questions....

  7. #7
    Theodore Roosevelt's idol TheKillerPenguin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by timmhaan
    the part that confuses me is how strength and LT work together. my guess is that your strength increases much faster than your LT level, but i'm having a hard time getting my head around it. i mean, as the original poster indicated, his performance went up pretty rapidly...does that mean he just got stronger, or did his LT level move up as well? or maybe it's just taking him longer to reach his LT level now...but what would slow that down? so many questions....
    The way I understand it, when your muscles gain strength, you can put out more power. But, what governs how long you can maintain that power output is goverened by your Lactic Threshold. The higher your LT, the longer you can maintain a higher power. This probably isn't 100% right, but its how I understand it.
    Is trick from science!

  8. #8
    Senior Member skydive69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herk_Tuff
    Can you recommend a good resource to learn more about Lactate Threshold and V02 Max?
    Two good sources:

    Bicycling Medicine by Arnie Baker, M.D.

    The Cylist's Training Bible by Joe Friel
    www.brokennecktobrokenrecords.com

  9. #9
    Senior Member skydive69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PenguinDeD
    The way I understand it, when your muscles gain strength, you can put out more power. But, what governs how long you can maintain that power output is goverened by your Lactic Threshold. The higher your LT, the longer you can maintain a higher power. This probably isn't 100% right, but its how I understand it.
    True, and LT is also a limiting factor for utilizing your VO2max potential. With a high LT, you can operate at a higher VO2max. With a low LT, you are overloaded with lactic acid (read pain), prior to even reaching the potential of your cardio vascular system. Unfortunately, there is no fast path to max LT - it takes years of hard work to reach your potential. Genetics also play an important role in that people like Lance can naturally dissipate lactic acide faster than most, just as he has an incredibly high VO2max. The combination wins the Tour de France - tons of genetic potential, and tons of hard, hard work.
    www.brokennecktobrokenrecords.com

  10. #10
    Theodore Roosevelt's idol TheKillerPenguin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skydive69
    True, and LT is also a limiting factor for utilizing your VO2max potential. With a high LT, you can operate at a higher VO2max. With a low LT, you are overloaded with lactic acid (read pain), prior to even reaching the potential of your cardio vascular system. Unfortunately, there is no fast path to max LT - it takes years of hard work to reach your potential. Genetics also play an important role in that people like Lance can naturally dissipate lactic acide faster than most, just as he has an incredibly high VO2max. The combination wins the Tour de France - tons of genetic potential, and tons of hard, hard work.
    Yeah, I've been noticing lately that my legs get tired but I never seem to run out of breath. After a hard climbing workout though, afterwards my lungs feel fatigued, even though I never felt out of breath during the ride.
    Is trick from science!

  11. #11
    secret track gearing
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    i think my HRM is a bit high with its feedback, but according to it, i have no problem riding at 90% (180bpm) for long periods of time, but as soon as i go above 190, i burn out and instantly run out of breath. isnt 90 way above the LT?

  12. #12
    Climbing Fool terrymorse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by go4broke44
    i think my HRM is a bit high with its feedback, but according to it, i have no problem riding at 90% (180bpm) for long periods of time, but as soon as i go above 190, i burn out and instantly run out of breath. isnt 90 way above the LT?
    Definitions are hard to pin down, since different people use different terminology. For very highly trained cyclists, 90% of max heart rate is about their "functional threshold", or the intensity level they can sustain for an hour. Some people call this the "anaerobic threshold", or OBLA (onset of blood lactate acumulation). Confusing.
    Managing Director, Undiscovered Country Tours

  13. #13
    Meow! my58vw's Avatar
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    Yes it is very confusing...

    I think of LT theshold (anaerobic threshold) as not pain but the point at where I start feeling the burning assoicated with lactic acid AND start feeling labored breathing. In my case that is at 170 BPM, after that point I start breathing real hard and have an increase in pain.

    One thing that is easy to conflict is muscle fatigue vs pain. When I climb a long hill my legs give out but my aerobic system is fine until the end. There is a point though when I have to put more and more effort into the climb because my power is effectivly decreasing and my HR goes up... then I start going "anaerobic".

    The prime example was after my LT interval session yesterday. I did 30 minutes (10 x 3) zone 5a (4 beats over LT) intervals around the crit course and the whole time I was breathing quite hard and in intense pain (21 MPH into a 30 MPH headwind up a slight incline, then down the otherside shelted at about 28 - 30 MPH). After the third interval my muscles were fatigued, and I could not muster a major sprint at the end even though my pain level was quite constant. Effectivly I started slowing down because I could not pull the same power as I could at the first interval and I knew it was time to go home. On the way home facing the same 30 MPH wind I had a very hard time going up some 6 percent approximate grade hills on the way back. My aerobic system was fine by my muscles were so fatigued that they could not push anymore.

    The cyclist training bible is a very good resourse about all of this...
    Just your average club rider... :)

  14. #14
    Meow! my58vw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by formerly ewitz
    I'm sure my58vw can help you out.
    Get the he$l off the forum... you were just banned. You have been reported again. Why don't you get your trolling a$$ out of here... this is the last response you get from me... next you will hear is from the mods.
    Just your average club rider... :)

  15. #15
    Theodore Roosevelt's idol TheKillerPenguin's Avatar
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    Its ok my58, you did help me out, so he was right

    Thanks.
    Is trick from science!

  16. #16
    Wood Licker Maelstrom's Avatar
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    Don't feed the trolls ...

  17. #17
    Name's Ash ...housewares Doctor Morbius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herk_Tuff
    Can you recommend a good resource to learn more about Lactate Threshold and V02 Max?
    Read this article. It's pretty good for explaining V02 Max and LT adaptations.

    http://home.hia.no/~stephens/timecors.htm
    I did not achieve this position in life by having some snot-nosed punk leave my cheese out in the wind. - Ed Rooney


    It's not that I'm lazy. I'm just highly motivated to RELAX!!

  18. #18
    Name's Ash ...housewares Doctor Morbius's Avatar
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    My58vw and Skydive69, I have a question for yooz guys in this thread ( Training for 16 mile team time trial )if you would be so kind to assist. Terrymorse, would appreciate your thoughts also if you have the time. TIA.
    I did not achieve this position in life by having some snot-nosed punk leave my cheese out in the wind. - Ed Rooney


    It's not that I'm lazy. I'm just highly motivated to RELAX!!

  19. #19
    Theodore Roosevelt's idol TheKillerPenguin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maelstrom
    Don't feed the trolls ...
    Hope that isn't aimed towards me


    Morbius, thanks for posting that article. I had forgotten that I had read it before and I guess i didn't absorb info. Explains the quick increase in my LT, but on the down side it means it wont continue like this forever
    Is trick from science!

  20. #20
    Name's Ash ...housewares Doctor Morbius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PenguinDeD
    Hope that isn't aimed towards me


    Morbius, thanks for posting that article. I had forgotten that I had read it before and I guess i didn't absorb info. Explains the quick increase in my LT, but on the down side it means it wont continue like this forever
    The troll comment was meant for a different putz! You may not continue to increase your lactate threshold forever, however, you can increase it for a good number of years. After that there's EPO.
    I did not achieve this position in life by having some snot-nosed punk leave my cheese out in the wind. - Ed Rooney


    It's not that I'm lazy. I'm just highly motivated to RELAX!!

  21. #21
    cab horn
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Morbius
    The troll comment was meant for a different putz! You may not continue to increase your lactate threshold forever, however, you can increase it for a good number of years. After that there's EPO.
    Screw training hard for years. EPO it is!

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