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  1. #1
    Meow! my58vw's Avatar
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    Weight training...

    Ok here we go...

    Today I decided to drop by the school gym and since I was not riding today and tomarrow is just a fast tempo ride (LT intervals on Friday this week) I did a hard leg workout. With limited time I ended up doing Leg Presses, Leg lifts and curls (basically quads and hamstrings). I did 5 sets on each machiene, 12 reps to failure, and I mean to failure with burning, etc, like getting done with a strong interval.

    I after the workout I could really feel I did something substantial lower bodywise. My quad and hamstrings were sore and it was a little hard walking up strairs. After about 30 minutes everything felt normal. I am used to after a real hard BT workout on the bike feeling sore and drained for a few hours but I do not feel that way.

    That said how do you know you did something weight training? Should you feel sore after a strong workout like that? I find it simular to a sprint workout where arobically I am spent but my legs feel good.

    Thanks as always.

    (Please do not make this thread about weight lifting or not)...
    Just your average club rider... :)

  2. #2
    Theodore Roosevelt's idol TheKillerPenguin's Avatar
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    Yes, your legs should feel that way. Tomorrow there's the possibility that it'll burn even more, since you haven't been to a gym in a while. If you consistantly weight train, that burning feeling will happen after a workout but won't return the next day.

    Feel's good don't it?
    Masochism is a training adaptation.

  3. #3
    Meow! my58vw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PenguinDeD
    Yes, your legs should feel that way. Tomorrow there's the possibility that it'll burn even more, since you haven't been to a gym in a while. If you consistantly weight train, that burning feeling will happen after a workout but won't return the next day.

    Feel's good don't it?
    Oh ya it does... no pain no gain... hmmm!
    Just your average club rider... :)

  4. #4
    Senior Member socalrider's Avatar
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    Don't ignore your upper body.. Trust me you need to keep your core strength and upper body in shape if you plan on improving..

  5. #5
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    No pain no gain is idiotic. You're a racer, right? You're in season, right? Then there's almost no reason for you to be going to failure at this time.

    Ask yourself, are you weight training to be a better cyclist or to be Mr. Olympia? (and I guarantee you, Mr. Olympia doesn't even train to failure all the time). Or worse, to feed your ego?

    You need to think like an *athlete*. Bodybuilders, gym rats, beach bodies etc etc etc aren't athletes. There's a sh*tload of material out there w/ regards to weight training & endurance sports. Do your research. Stay away from sites like bodybuilding.com and muscle magazines.

    I'm far from being an authority on training for endurance sports, but it seems like you put some thought into your cycling program and set it up carefully. You need to take the same approach to your resistance program. If you want to hit a good forum I recommend Lyle McDonald's site, www.bodyrecomposition.com. Good mix of strength and endurance athletes, as well as bodybuilders.

    It's all about the plan, bro. If you ain't playing the game smart, you're always gonna be beat by those who are.

    ps. get off the machine and learn to squat, fer godsake

  6. #6
    Theodore Roosevelt's idol TheKillerPenguin's Avatar
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    psst... he said don't make it a thread akin to "to weight lift or not to weight lift"

    Anyway, yeah you guys are right. Upper body is important, and if anything else you'll look good nekked if you work your core up to an 8 pack. Shouldn't lift much if at all right now since it'll make your legs feel like jello, unless you're on an off week or something like that. Heed their words!

    Did I just ignore the warning that I pointed out?
    Masochism is a training adaptation.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by PenguinDeD
    psst... he said don't make it a thread akin to "to weight lift or not to weight lift"
    Whoops...didn't mean to come across like I was trying to tell 58vw not to lift. Just the opposite, actually - I come from a weightlifting background. That's all I know, which is why I came to these boards cuz I just started riding again after 12 years and everything I know about endurance training is stone age.

    still, it makes me chuckle when I see you roadies doing *bodybuilding* routines to improve your riding.

  8. #8
    Meow! my58vw's Avatar
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    I am trying to build raw power for sprint and short climbs that are the major limiting factor for me now. Since I did not have a full off season weight room time I am missing that important component. I do not know if this is right but it seems if I add weight lifting at least once per week and maybe two, the same day as intervals or the day before a rest day the improvement will be faster. I am still a little confused about the whole weight training vs hill repeats, etc for power.

    We are right in the middle of race season and I know that I can only make so much gain in the next month or so but I want to get as far as possible. If I want to get in the top 5 of my next major crit I am going to have to develop some more power...
    Just your average club rider... :)

  9. #9
    Theodore Roosevelt's idol TheKillerPenguin's Avatar
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    Lift the day before you have a rest day.
    Masochism is a training adaptation.

  10. #10
    Just riding andygates's Avatar
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    You may benefit from explosive-style lifting, too. There's a difference between, say, the steady application of force in a quad curl and the explosive burst of force in a power clean. I've become a big fan of power cleans and clean & press in the last year or so - that plus an overgeared fixie on a hilly route []

  11. #11
    Theodore Roosevelt's idol TheKillerPenguin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andygates
    You may benefit from explosive-style lifting, too. There's a difference between, say, the steady application of force in a quad curl and the explosive burst of force in a power clean. I've become a big fan of power cleans and clean & press in the last year or so - that plus an overgeared fixie on a hilly route []
    You can explode on any machine though. Explode when applying force, and come slow back to finish the rep.
    Masochism is a training adaptation.

  12. #12
    Senior Member skydive69's Avatar
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    Tomorrow, you should experience DOMS (delayed onset of muscle soreness) - that is the telltale sign that you have torn down muscle fiber which should now compensate and grow back stronger and bring new friends!
    www.brokennecktobrokenrecords.com

  13. #13
    Meow! my58vw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skydive69
    Tomorrow, you should experience DOMS (delayed onset of muscle soreness) - that is the telltale sign that you have torn down muscle fiber which should now compensate and grow back stronger and bring new friends!
    I am experencing this now. My hamstrings have been sore this morning. I went on a little 20 mile aerobic spin, small ring, no more than 20 MPH, and I tried to do some big ring work and had nothing there... it is like someone zapped the power from my legs. I now know to do them only after interval sessions when I can do an aerobic ride or off the next day...

    Killer for the legs...

    Oh well I had a little issue with the back wheel on the cervelo so I spent some time fixing it today.

    (Just say since the bike is set up for a 23 rear tire a 25 is a little too tall and wide (rubing on the inside of the cutout), so I got some cheep 23 tires for it and everything is better
    Just your average club rider... :)

  14. #14
    Theodore Roosevelt's idol TheKillerPenguin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by my58vw
    I am experencing this now. My hamstrings have been sore this morning. I went on a little 20 mile aerobic spin, small ring, no more than 20 MPH, and I tried to do some big ring work and had nothing there... it is like someone zapped the power from my legs. I now know to do them only after interval sessions when I can do an aerobic ride or off the next day...

    Killer for the legs...

    Oh well I had a little issue with the back wheel on the cervelo so I spent some time fixing it today.

    (Just say since the bike is set up for a 23 rear tire a 25 is a little too tall and wide (rubing on the inside of the cutout), so I got some cheep 23 tires for it and everything is better
    Expect that soreness for the next few days, especially if you're still riding.
    Masochism is a training adaptation.

  15. #15
    Senior Member skydive69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by my58vw
    I am experencing this now. My hamstrings have been sore this morning. I went on a little 20 mile aerobic spin, small ring, no more than 20 MPH, and I tried to do some big ring work and had nothing there... it is like someone zapped the power from my legs. I now know to do them only after interval sessions when I can do an aerobic ride or off the next day...

    Killer for the legs...

    Oh well I had a little issue with the back wheel on the cervelo so I spent some time fixing it today.

    (Just say since the bike is set up for a 23 rear tire a 25 is a little too tall and wide (rubing on the inside of the cutout), so I got some cheep 23 tires for it and everything is better
    I have been doing squats for so many years, that I usually don't have that issue, but one of the things I try to do after a leg workout, is go out for about a very easy 10 mile spin just to get them moving. I will ocassionally, however, get a bit of DOMS in my quads the next day after a particularly diffiuclt hammerfest. I can tell when I have fried my quads, I can really feel them when I walk up stairs.

    I like that aero rear "wheel well" for lack of a better term on the rear of the Cervelo, but I guess it doesn't give you much margin to change tire size. I run a 19 front and a 23 rear on my TT machine.
    www.brokennecktobrokenrecords.com

  16. #16
    Meow! my58vw's Avatar
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    You can adjust how far the tire is in or out from the frame. I have it adjusted so that the wheel has 1 mm clearance at its closest point on the rear with my carbones. The 25 tire is about 1 mm taller for lack of a better term so it rubs... yuck!

    I could definitly feel my hanstrings yesterday at work climbing up stairs also... interesting.
    Just your average club rider... :)

  17. #17
    Focus on the future alison_in_oh's Avatar
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    I find that DOMS is worst the second day, whether from weights or hard bike workouts.

    FWIW, more soreness doesn't correlate with better gains. In case you'd lept to that conclusion (I have, in the past!)

  18. #18
    Senior Member skydive69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by my58vw

    I could definitly feel my hanstrings yesterday at work climbing up stairs also... interesting.
    Good me lad - that means they will grow stronger tomorrow!!
    www.brokennecktobrokenrecords.com

  19. #19
    Senior Member WJ13US's Avatar
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    My58vw:

    I would suggest if your not going to regularly weight train you may want to stop these ramdom stops at the gym.

    When strating a weight training program its always best to start with low weights until your body becomes acclimated to the routine and you get your form down.

    What your doing is just asking for an injury.

    Bill

  20. #20
    robots in disguise beppe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MERTON
    you only need six main lifts.

    front full squat
    romanian dead lift
    bent over bumbell rows
    bench
    incline
    shoulder press
    Transylvanian Vampire Curl
    Isometric Scoliolateral Rowing Butterfly
    Coclear Barrel Squat Lift
    Mongolian Yurt Toss


    These are the only 4 exercises any man needs. Your exercises are for girly-men.

    I defy you to get an extra-body workout performing them; you are guaranteed an extra-body workout performing these!

  21. #21
    Coming back with vengence
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    Quote Originally Posted by my58vw
    I am trying to build raw power for sprint and short climbs that are the major limiting factor for me now. Since I did not have a full off season weight room time I am missing that important component. I do not know if this is right but it seems if I add weight lifting at least once per week and maybe two, the same day as intervals or the day before a rest day the improvement will be faster. I am still a little confused about the whole weight training vs hill repeats, etc for power.
    You are a prime canidate for SCT or Static Contraction strenght training. You are looking for "Alpha" strength that will give help you in your limited area as stated above. The other reason why you are perfect for this system is because of the time issue. With SCT you will workout no more than twice a week and this will be only in the beginning.

    I might get a little preachy here but just bare with me I am passionate about this topic ;-). There is no need to make this complicated and do not allow gymlore to be taken as physiological fact. As with any athlete your biggest concern is injury which will prevent you from doing what you do, in this case cycling.

    Here is the deal. You first have to understand that strenth and muscles do not increase in the gym only the stimulation to demand more muscle fibers to compensate for the workout you just did takes place in the gym. Muscle and strength increase take place out of the gym and only during your recovery time. This is the first and formost dynamic that you need to understand. Recovery is where you grow that needed muscle fiber and strenth.

    Your workouts will consist of no more than 10 to 12 exercizes that are broken up in to two routines called 'A' workout and 'B' workout. At first it will be no less than seven days your first 'A' work out to the next 'A' workout and the same with your 'B' workout. The recovery time between workouts will increase as you progress in this system. Now comes the mind blower...

    The total time for the 'A' and 'B' workouts will blow your mind because you are doing max 5 second holds in your strongest range of motion. That means the time to set up the weights either at your local gym, or if you are like me and have the set up at home, will take more time than the actual workouts themselves.! My 'A' and 'B' workouts are no longer than 15 minutes of course including the time to set up and record results! That is no more than 60 minutes in a given month and my results are awesome.

    The actual time for the workout its self either 'A' or 'B' is 25 seonds repspectively. This system is also the most safe and sane method to workout. Because you are working in your strongest range of motions the risks of injury are minimal.

    Here are the mechanics behind the sytems. let's say that you have a big rock that is 200lbs and you need to move it 12 inches. Now you have a rock that weighs 400lbs and you need to move it 6 inches. Now you have a rock that weights 600lbs and you need to move it only move it 3 inches. The same amount of energy to move the 200lbs rock 12 inches is the same as the 600lbs being moved only 3 inches. Now I know that this is a crude way of explaining this system but it goes the same for weight lifting.

    If you can bench press 200lbs using full range of motion then take that full range of motioin and limit it down to the last inches in your strongest range of motion and you will be able to lift incredible iron and gain some serious strength and muscle to do so.

    Take a look at this system and judge for your self. You can private message me for the infomation and I will be glad to send you that information...


    Dan.
    Last edited by ramiso; 06-03-05 at 10:19 AM.

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