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Old 08-06-05, 05:37 PM   #1
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Low carb energy food for the road.

I've been pondering for a while what food to take with me on the road. Sugar and carbohydrate foods are just out for me as they push me into hypoglicemia anyway. Up to now I've taken no food at all, just plain water and after an hour I will tire a little and after two hours I just hit the wall.

Anyway I just did what I was contemplating doing and took thin slices of raw, salted beef fat!

It worked a treat! Two and a half hours later I powered home with energy to burn and that's a first. The beef fat I buy is biodynamic which I usually render for use in pate. I cut small thin pieces and salted both sides with celtic sea salt and used it fresh rather than letting it dry out. It's a bit chewy but works a treat. Something else to consider is that I know my supply of biodynamic beef is grass fed so it's high in omega 3 fatty acids. The comercial stuff most of you Americans get is grain fed and therefore rich in omega 6 fatty acids which wont fuel you as well as omega 3's.

Regards, Anthony
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Old 08-06-05, 06:10 PM   #2
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Get something slow burning. Nuts are good.
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Old 08-06-05, 06:45 PM   #3
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Beef? Doesn't that take a long time to digest?
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Old 08-06-05, 07:06 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by va_cyclist
Beef? Doesn't that take a long time to digest?

Lean muscle meat takes time to digest. I'm talking about internal fat from around the kidneys. I didn't just swallow it either, you chew it for a while to get your digestive proccess going. And of course it was raw, lots of intact enzymes.


Regarding nuts they will work for some but nuts are high in omega 6 fatty acids which don't work that well for me.

Regards, Anthony
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Old 08-06-05, 11:59 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by AnthonyG
I've been pondering for a while what food to take with me on the road. Sugar and carbohydrate foods are just out for me as they push me into hypoglicemia anyway. Up to now I've taken no food at all, just plain water and after an hour I will tire a little and after two hours I just hit the wall.
Eating sugars and carbs gives you low blood sugar??? That's pretty bizarre. For most of us, they raise our blood sugar levels (which is why we consume them when cycling - they're great for fuel).
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Old 08-07-05, 12:05 AM   #6
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This is by far the weirdest sports nutrition thing I've read. Fat... kidneys... raw...
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Old 08-07-05, 12:54 AM   #7
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Dried Fruit... like apricots or apples. I think pineapples are way too sweet, but they might be OK if you eat them and then drink water. Or raisins.

Nuts might be too dry and make you feel parched.
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Old 08-07-05, 01:28 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by AnthonyG
Lean muscle meat takes time to digest. I'm talking about internal fat from around the kidneys. I didn't just swallow it either, you chew it for a while to get your digestive proccess going. And of course it was raw, lots of intact enzymes.


Regarding nuts they will work for some but nuts are high in omega 6 fatty acids which don't work that well for me.

Regards, Anthony
though I have not tried fat like you have I found nuts did not help. I found I had more energy from the jerky I made. I could handle some fat on it but I don't think I could handle straigth fat.
for the first tiem in years I am starting to get a bit of energy from simple carbs but protien still seems to be what my body uses most. the only ways I have tried adding fat was from cream and nuts and neither helped me at all.
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Old 08-07-05, 01:33 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by SSP
Eating sugars and carbs gives you low blood sugar??? That's pretty bizarre. For most of us, they raise our blood sugar levels (which is why we consume them when cycling - they're great for fuel).

Yes it's called hypoglycemia or reactive hypoglycemia. When you consume sugars and carbohydrates and they spike your blood sugar upwards your body reacts to lower your blood sugar levels with insulin. With hypoglicemia it over reacts which causes your blood sugar levels to plummet. This is what happens to me and I'm by no means alone.


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This is by far the weirdest sports nutrition thing I've read. Fat... kidneys... raw...
All through the TDF they were talking about Jan Ulrich being the "Big desiel" and powering along with a big gear. Well it's a good analogy for another reason. Some people are genetically suited to eating carbohydrates and some are genetically suited to eating fat and protein (the desiel engine). Jan is a classic fat / protein type but because he's consuming the same carbohydrate foods as the rest I don't beleive that he's performing as well as he could.

I've been thinking that the typical high carbohydrate athlete diet is so dominant that it self selects for carbohydrate types with fat / protein types not performing well enough on the diet to get to the top. Jan Ulrich stands out as one of the few whose risen to the top of a speed / endurance sport even though I suspect he's eating the wrong food.

Anyway it's something to try. I had put off trying this myself because of all the talk of needing to maintain blood sugar levels but I decided to give it a go and honestly my muscles have never felt better or endured longer.

Regards, Anthony
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Old 08-07-05, 01:37 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by steveknight
though I have not tried fat like you have I found nuts did not help. I found I had more energy from the jerky I made. I could handle some fat on it but I don't think I could handle straigth fat.
for the first tiem in years I am starting to get a bit of energy from simple carbs but protien still seems to be what my body uses most. the only ways I have tried adding fat was from cream and nuts and neither helped me at all.

Steve,

Nuts don't work for me either because of there high omega 6 fatty acid content. If the cows that produced the cream were fed grains instead of grass then there milk would be high in omega 6 fatty acdids to instead of the omega 3 fatty acids if they were grass fed. Maybe you were alergic to dairy at the time, this wouldn't help.

Regards, Anthony
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Old 08-07-05, 07:47 AM   #11
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Why do you think Jan is a classic fat/protein type, did you read that some where? I always thought he was called a desiel because of his lower cadence than most of the other pro riders.
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Old 08-07-05, 09:00 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by G-Unit
Dried Fruit... like apricots or apples. I think pineapples are way too sweet, but they might be OK if you eat them and then drink water. Or raisins.

Nuts might be too dry and make you feel parched.
what don't you understand about low-carb? Dried fruit is extremely high in carbs, even the unsweetened stuff.
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Old 08-07-05, 09:27 AM   #13
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what don't you understand about low-carb? Dried fruit is extremely high in carbs, even the unsweetened stuff.
Why would a cyclist, especially one who seems to be suffering from the bonk, want to go low-carb while on the bike?

For people who are trying to lose weight, a low-carb diet may be useful if carbs represent a "substance abuse" issue for them. But on the bike carbs are fuel, and 200-300 calories per hour of carbs will keep you from bonking.
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Old 08-07-05, 10:41 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by SSP
Why would a cyclist, especially one who seems to be suffering from the bonk, want to go low-carb while on the bike?

For people who are trying to lose weight, a low-carb diet may be useful if carbs represent a "substance abuse" issue for them. But on the bike carbs are fuel, and 200-300 calories per hour of carbs will keep you from bonking.
well the original poster said he has problems and becomes hypoglycemic if he takes in too man carbs.
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Old 08-07-05, 12:01 PM   #15
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well the original poster said he has problems and becomes hypoglycemic if he takes in too man carbs.
Yeah...and I find that hard to believe too. "Hypoglycemia" is kind of a faddish diagnosis...most people who claim they suffer from it (assuming they're not diabetic), don't show evidence when their blood sugar is tested.

Regardless, even if the OP is one of the tiny minority with "reactive hypoglycemia", the literature on it says that it manifests several HOURS after eating a carb-heavy meal. I find it hard to believe that one would experience hypoglycemia from consuming a few hundred calories while riding. Unless, of course, the OP's paranoia regarding carbs has caused him to always be in a persistent hypoglycemic state (this would be consistent with his reporting bonking after only an hour or two of riding).

FWIW, here's what WebMD says about it ( http://my.webmd.com/content/article/5/1680_51025.htm )

Reactive Hypoglycemia

A diagnosis of reactive hypoglycemia is considered only after other possible causes of low blood sugar have been ruled out. Reactive hypoglycemia with no known cause is a condition in which the symptoms of low blood sugar appear 2 to 5 hours after eating foods high in glucose.

Ten to 20 years ago, hypoglycemia was a popular diagnosis. However, studies now show that this condition is actually quite rare. In these studies, most patients who experienced the symptoms of hypoglycemia after eating glucose-rich foods consistently had normal levels of blood sugar--above 60 mg/dL. Some researchers have suggested that some people may be extra sensitive to the body's normal release of the hormone epinephrine after a meal.
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Old 08-07-05, 12:32 PM   #16
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well don't believe everythign doctors say. they are not perfect and thre are a lot of problems they have no clue about. a lot of their healing is dumb luck or people just get well on their own.
my doc had no clue why I got no energy at all from carbs.
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Old 08-07-05, 12:39 PM   #17
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Jan Ullrich is no hypoglycemic. He's called the big diesel because he likes to grind in the big gears and muscle his way up the hill. He has a lot of power in his pedal stroke and he uses that power to propel him up the hills (think of Lance's opposite).

Without knowing what Jan's diet actually is, it would definitely be pointless to speculate on whether or not he's eating correctly, and it would be equally as pointless to speculate as to how his diet contributes to his performance. And let's not forget, Jan finishes consistently high in his races- since when is that considered poor performance?

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Old 08-07-05, 04:52 PM   #18
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Here's a quick article on hypoglicemia, http://www.mercola.com/2001/oct/10/blood_sugar_add.htm

and here's some more if you want to look into it, http://www.google.com/custom?cof=AH%...mia&sa2=Search

Regarding Jan Ulrich being a fat / protein type, yes I'm speculating and I don't know for sure although I did here that Jan has trouble keeping his weight down in the off season because he loves potatoes. This is a classical symptom of a fat / protein type eating too many carbohydrates.

Regards, Anthony
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Old 08-07-05, 05:20 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by AnthonyG
Here's a quick article on hypoglicemia, http://www.mercola.com/2001/oct/10/blood_sugar_add.htm

and here's some more if you want to look into it, http://www.google.com/custom?cof=AH%...mia&sa2=Search

Regarding Jan Ulrich being a fat / protein type, yes I'm speculating and I don't know for sure although I did here that Jan has trouble keeping his weight down in the off season because he loves potatoes. This is a classical symptom of a fat / protein type eating too many carbohydrates.

Regards, Anthony
No offense, but those links prove nothing, except that hypoglycemia is the "disease de jour" and is being used to sell a whole bunch of "natural" products and "new exciting breakthrough" diets.

The first link is to a "natural health" doc who is selling his "metabolic type" books and products, and some outrageously overpriced supplements. But, when I google "metabolic type", all I get is a whole bunch of links to more people selling stuff! I couldn't find even a single link to scientific studies supporting the theory of "metabolic type".

If you have any links to valid, peer-reviewed, scientific research supporting the theory that human beings have different "metabolic types" and that these types can be used to explain various ailments, please post them.

Otherwise, I'll have to consider it yet another crackpot theory, promoted by people with a vested interest in selling products to the gullible, and the desperate.

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Old 08-07-05, 05:58 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by SSP
No offense, but those links prove nothing, except that hypoglycemia is the "disease de jour" and is being used to sell a whole bunch of "natural" products and "new exciting breakthrough" diets.

The first link is to a "natural health" doc who is selling his "metabolic type" books and products, and some outrageously overpriced supplements. But, when I google "metabolic type", all I get is a whole bunch of links to more people selling stuff! I couldn't find even a single link to scientific studies supporting the theory of "metabolic type".

If you have any links to valid, peer-reviewed, scientific research supporting the theory that human beings have different "metabolic types" and that these types can be used to explain various ailments, please post them.

Otherwise, I'll have to consider it yet another crackpot theory, promoted by people with a vested interest in selling products to the gullible, and the desperate.

Hey, The references to peer review journals were there. You just didn't care to read them.

Regards, Anthony
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Old 08-07-05, 06:30 PM   #21
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Hey, The references to peer review journals were there. You just didn't care to read them.

Regards, Anthony
Could you point me towards them then? I did spend some time on that website, but found no links to scientific research backing up his theories.

I did, however, find much fear-mongering (typical of New Age "natural health" salesmen). For instance, on his most recent update ( http://www.mercola.com/2005/aug/6/index.htm ), there are links discussing: "Is your unborn baby contaminated?", "The Danger Lurking in your Shower", "The Secret Dangers of the Flu Vaccine". Sounds like he's selling fear to me.

There were also links to New Age-y seminars, like the following:
Emotional Transformational Therapy (ETT) Training - For licensed health care practitioners interested in energy psychology techniques, Steven Vazquez, Ph.D, has developed a technique called ETT, which uses light and color and specific counseling techniques to produce rapid resolution of psychological trauma. Dr. Vasquez offers workshops on this technique all over the U.S. Mention you were referred by Mercola.com and receive an additional 10% off.

Sounds like a bunch of BS to me..., but YMMV .
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Old 08-07-05, 07:27 PM   #22
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Could you point me towards them then? I did spend some time on that website, but found no links to scientific research backing up his theories.

I did, however, find much fear-mongering (typical of New Age "natural health" salesmen). For instance, on his most recent update ( http://www.mercola.com/2005/aug/6/index.htm ), there are links discussing: "Is your unborn baby contaminated?", "The Danger Lurking in your Shower", "The Secret Dangers of the Flu Vaccine". Sounds like he's selling fear to me.

There were also links to New Age-y seminars, like the following:
Emotional Transformational Therapy (ETT) Training - For licensed health care practitioners interested in energy psychology techniques, Steven Vazquez, Ph.D, has developed a technique called ETT, which uses light and color and specific counseling techniques to produce rapid resolution of psychological trauma. Dr. Vasquez offers workshops on this technique all over the U.S. Mention you were referred by Mercola.com and receive an additional 10% off.

Sounds like a bunch of BS to me..., but YMMV .
Here's the reference page for one of the articles on hypoglicemia, http://www.mercola.com/article/carbo...grains_ref.htm

Personally I filter my shower water so I don't consider that scaremongery. I can't conduct the scientific trials myself but I can say that I feel SO much better not showering in chlorinated tap water. I filter my drinking water with a higher quality filter that removes flouride as well and by the way I suffer from dental flurosis so I know the effects of too much flouride.

I consider most if not all vacinations to be harmful as well. I caught ALL the childhood infections that your supposed to get like mumps, chicken pox, ect and my mother tried to make sure that both my brother and I got them at the same time. This is called traditional wisdom, it didn't hurt either of us and now we have life long immunity. The idea that you need to take vaccines for these diseases is insane. I've been poisioned by mercury from dental amalgams as well so I know that the dangers of the mercury used as a preservative in vaccinations is not to be underestimated.

I've never tried the EFT or other emotional healing methods but that doesn't mean I dismiss them as quackery and personally I don't buy anything from Dr Mercola. Dr Mercola isn't above critisism from many on the alternative side of things but it is a very good source of credible information.

Regards, Anthony
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Old 08-07-05, 10:16 PM   #23
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Here's the reference page for one of the articles on hypoglicemia, http://www.mercola.com/article/carbo...grains_ref.htm
Of the 60 citations, many were to textbooks and magazine articles. Of the rest, it's hard to tell whether or not they are referencing peer-reviewed journals - many clearly are not. I didn't see any that spoke to the "metabolic type" issue. It's also typical of pseudo-science to assert that their claims have scientific backing (at the same time they're claiming that the "establishment" does not understand their claims, but they will be proven right in time).

Of more interest, however, is the overblown claims made in the headline on that page: "Low Grain and Carbohydrate Diets Treat Hypoglycemia, Heart Disease, Diabetes Cancer and Nearly ALL Chronic Illness."

This kind of broad claim is typical of pseudo-science. Over the years, I've met a number of people who buy into this stuff. They all seem to embrace their "chronic diseases", and the potential for harm of many common substances (e.g., tap water, sugars, etc.). It sounds like hysteria to me (especially since there's so little evidence to back up the claims), and a fearful way to live.


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Personally I filter my shower water so I don't consider that scaremongery. I can't conduct the scientific trials myself but I can say that I feel SO much better not showering in chlorinated tap water. I filter my drinking water with a higher quality filter that removes flouride as well and by the way I suffer from dental flurosis so I know the effects of too much flouride.

I consider most if not all vacinations to be harmful as well. I caught ALL the childhood infections that your supposed to get like mumps, chicken pox, ect and my mother tried to make sure that both my brother and I got them at the same time. This is called traditional wisdom, it didn't hurt either of us and now we have life long immunity. The idea that you need to take vaccines for these diseases is insane. I've been poisioned by mercury from dental amalgams as well so I know that the dangers of the mercury used as a preservative in vaccinations is not to be underestimated.

I've never tried the EFT or other emotional healing methods but that doesn't mean I dismiss them as quackery and personally I don't buy anything from Dr Mercola. Dr Mercola isn't above critisism from many on the alternative side of things but it is a very good source of credible information.

Regards, Anthony
OK, that explains a lot about where you're coming from. Hope it works out for you.
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Old 08-07-05, 10:29 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by SSP
Of the 60 citations, many were to textbooks and magazine articles. Of the rest, it's hard to tell whether or not they are referencing peer-reviewed journals - many clearly are not. I didn't see any that spoke to the "metabolic type" issue. It's also typical of pseudo-science to assert that their claims have scientific backing (at the same time they're claiming that the "establishment" does not understand their claims, but they will be proven right in time).

Of more interest, however, is the overblown claims made in the headline on that page: "Low Grain and Carbohydrate Diets Treat Hypoglycemia, Heart Disease, Diabetes Cancer and Nearly ALL Chronic Illness."

This kind of broad claim is typical of pseudo-science. Over the years, I've met a number of people who buy into this stuff. They all seem to embrace their "chronic diseases", and the potential for harm of many common substances (e.g., tap water, sugars, etc.). It sounds like hysteria to me (especially since there's so little evidence to back up the claims), and a fearful way to live.




OK, that explains a lot about where you're coming from. Hope it works out for you.
It's fair enough to subject new claims to scrutiny but honestly if you went back and REALY subjected what you hold to be true to the same hard scrutiny it just wouldn't stand up.

As to the advoidance of chlorine and chemicals this isn't realy far fetched either. It's called deffering to the control. This is a scientific principal. Many chemicals have been introduced into our environment WITHOUT any scientific study before hand to prove it's safety. The problem now is that we are too proud to admit we did anything wrong in the first place. Personally I do suffer from chemical exposure but nobody will admit anything because it's just too big to deal with.

As for grains well haven't you heard about the whole caveman diet thing. If your going to consume grains then you need to prepare them properly (soaking and fermenting) and honestly the best thing a peice of bread can do is to carry lashings of real butter.

Our food knowledge is plumetting downhill fast and we don't seem to care.

Regards, Anthony
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Old 08-07-05, 11:17 PM   #25
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It's fair enough to subject new claims to scrutiny but honestly if you went back and REALY subjected what you hold to be true to the same hard scrutiny it just wouldn't stand up.

As to the advoidance of chlorine and chemicals this isn't realy far fetched either. It's called deffering to the control. This is a scientific principal. Many chemicals have been introduced into our environment WITHOUT any scientific study before hand to prove it's safety. The problem now is that we are too proud to admit we did anything wrong in the first place. Personally I do suffer from chemical exposure but nobody will admit anything because it's just too big to deal with.
And yet, we keep living longer and longer (thanks to things like chlorinated water, vaccines, etc.).


Quote:
Originally Posted by AnthonyG
As for grains well haven't you heard about the whole caveman diet thing. If your going to consume grains then you need to prepare them properly (soaking and fermenting) and honestly the best thing a peice of bread can do is to carry lashings of real butter.
Cavemen also drank their water from streams and ate the carcasses of animals killed by larger predators...do you do that too? And "cavemen" had an average lifespan of about 25 years, typically dying from simple infections, broken bones, etc. - doesn't sound like a smart way to live nowadays, but whatever floats your boat, I guess.

Last edited by SSP; 08-07-05 at 11:29 PM.
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