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  1. #1
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    Multi-vitamin and hunger?

    I recently started using GNC Mega Men which is a multi-vitamin and I now seem like I'm always hungry, is this normal when taking vitamins? Below are the contents:

    Vitamin A (50% as beta-Carotene, 50% as Acetate) 5000 IU 100%
    Vitamin C (as Ascorbic Acid & Calcium Ascorbate) 300 mg 500%
    Vitamin D (as Cholecalciferol) 200 IU 50%
    Vitamin E (as Natural d-alpha Tocopheryl Acetate) 100 IU 333%
    Vitamin K (Phytonadione) 80 mcg 100%
    Thiamin (Vitamin B-1)(as Thiamin Mononitrate) 50 mg 3333%
    Riboflavin (Vitamin B-2) 50 mg 2941%
    Niacin (as Niacin and Niacinamide) 50 mg 250%
    Vitamin B-6 (as Pyridoxine Hydrochloride) 50 mg 2500%
    Folic Acid 400 mcg 100%
    Vitamin B12 (as Cyanocobalamin) 50 mcg 833%
    Biotin 300 mcg 100%
    Pantothenic Acid (as Calcium d-Pantothenate) 50 mg 500%
    Calcium (as Calcium Carbonate and Calcium Citrate Malate) 200 mg 20%
    Iodine (as Potassium Iodide) 150 mcg 100%
    Magnesium (as Magnesium Oxide) 100 mg 25%
    Zinc (as Zinc Oxide) 25 mg 167%
    Selenium (as Hydrolyzed Protein Chelate) 200 mcg 286%
    Copper (as Copper Gluconate) 2 mg 100%
    Manganese (as Manganese Sulfate) 2 mg 100%
    Chromium (as Hydrolyzed Protein Chelate) 120 mcg 100%
    Molybdenum (as Sodium Molybdate) 75 mcg 100%
    Proprietary Amino Acid Blend 100 mg **
    Taurine **
    L-Methionine **
    L-Glutamine **
    L-Arginine **
    L-Carnitine **
    Mega Men® Antioxidant Fruit and Vegetable Blend 105 mg **
    Citrus Bioflavonoids **
    Carrot Powder **
    Papaya Fruit Powder **
    Orange Fruit Powder **
    Pineapple Fruit Powder **
    Pumpkin Seed Meal (Cucurbita pepo) **
    Spinach Powder **
    Elderberry Fruit Powder **
    Bilberry Fruit Powder **
    Black Currant Fruit Powder **
    Cauliflower Powder **
    Saw Palmetto Berry Extract **
    Kale Powder **
    Brussels Sprouts Powder **
    Broccoli Powder **
    Apple Fruit Powder **
    Kiwi Fruit Powder **
    Grape Fruit Powder **
    alpha-Lipoic Acid 25 mg **
    Green Tea Leaves Extract (Camellia sinensis) 10 mg **
    Choline (as Choline Bitartrate) 10 mg **
    Inositol 10 mg **
    Silica (as Silicon Dioxide) 4 mg **
    Boron (as Hydrolyzed Protein Chelate) 2 mg **
    Lupinus Albus & Triticum Vulgare (Alpha-Lupaline) 950 mcg **
    Lycopene 950 mcg **
    Astaxanthin 50 mcg **
    Zeaxanthin 50 mcg **
    Vanadium (as Sodium Metavanadate) 10 mcg **
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  2. #2
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    Nope.

    Vitamins and minerals have no nutritional values and do not have calories. Vitamins are the substrates that power reactions that provide ATP.

    What you may want to do is recheck your total calorie intake and the types of food you're eating and make sure you're eating enough and eating the kinds of food that are slow burning in nature. If you're really worried, see a dietitian.

    Koffee

  3. #3
    Senior Member late's Avatar
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    Hi,
    my experience is that they can. I used to work for GNC. They have a hefty commission plan to get sales guys to push the more expensive stuff.

    Take B1, for example. Yours has 50 mg. That is just overkill.
    To be honest, I don't know of a multi I can endorse. Most guys don't need iron. Most American guys get more than they need from their diet. And in any case, iron can bind with Vit E neutralising it.

    Try to find a naturally derived brand that has more reasonable amounts.

  4. #4
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    Sorry. Again, vitamins have ZERO nutritional value. They don't make you hungry... but if you think by taking a multi-vitamin you can cut back on food, that will probably result in you being more hungry.

    GNC knows about supplements and nutrition like they know about thermodynamics. Just zero. If you want real knowledge about supplements and vitamins, go to a dietitian. They'll confirm what I said.

    Koffee

  5. #5
    Killing Rabbits
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    Koffee they could make you feel hungry if they increased the acidity of your stomach. That is why drunk people eat so bloody much; booze acidifies your stomach so you eat a bunch of crabs to soothe it. But I won't suggest popping a tums with it as that will effect absorbtion.

  6. #6
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    Meant carbs but crabs sounds good too.

  7. #7
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    Man, vitamins are absorbed by the body and used to drive metabolic reactions. That's what they do. They don't make you hungry- again, they have NO nutritional value and have no kcal. Vitamins are a micronutrient that have several vital functions for the body, but hunger ain't up there on the list.

    One of the reasons why I am stridently pointing this out is because I attended lectures this past weekend for my nutritionist certifications, and we spent a great deal of time talking about vitamins, and the dietitian specifically mentioned the scenario this poster is talking about. When she was talking about it, I had no idea the scenario she posed was really something people would consider, but unfortunately, it looks like they do.

    Koffee

  8. #8
    Twincities MN kuan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enthalpic
    That is why drunk people eat so bloody much; booze acidifies your stomach so you eat a bunch of crabs to soothe it.
    Now I have cereal and milk on my keyboard!

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by koffee brown
    Man, vitamins are absorbed by the body and used to drive metabolic reactions. That's what they do. They don't make you hungry- again, they have NO nutritional value and have no kcal. Vitamins are a micronutrient that have several vital functions for the body, but hunger ain't up there on the list.

    One of the reasons why I am stridently pointing this out is because I attended lectures this past weekend for my nutritionist certifications, and we spent a great deal of time talking about vitamins, and the dietitian specifically mentioned the scenario this poster is talking about. When she was talking about it, I had no idea the scenario she posed was really something people would consider, but unfortunately, it looks like they do.

    Koffee
    I know what vitamins are for. I aslo know they are not food and don't fill you up or increase your caloric needs. However, you need to think from a kinetic point of view; not everything is an equilibrium process. Over the course of days the vitamin does nothing. However, you can't dismiss what the person says without just maybe thinking that the pills increase gastric emptying. Think of digestive enzymes, not food but will liquefy the contents of your stomach, decreasing retention. Empty stomach = hungry (but says nothing of how much food the person actually needs).

    If you were a doctor you would say to a patient "your stomach does not hurt because my book says it can't be." Listen to the client!

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enthalpic
    If you were a doctor you would say to a patient "your stomach does not hurt because my book says it can't be." Listen to the client!
    Thats why we have more nurses than doctors.

    I have to agree with you, vitamins can cause many problems whether there is food in your stomach or not, many vitamins can cause serious problems, when they are taken in large quantities. ie. K.

    Some vitamin reactions are driven by exposure to light and the main purpose of some vitamins is to produce hormones needed for mineral utilization, which may be present in water, or minerals in a multivitamin.
    Catastrophe: Knowing you are about to die and there are still three beers left in the fridge!
    P.L.

  11. #11
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    koffee a quick search found articles on gastic empying effects of vit b-12

    Gastric emptying in patients with vitamin B(12) deficiency.

    Yagci M, Yamac K, Acar K, Cingi E, Kitapci M, Haznedar R.

    Department of Hematology, Gazi Medical School, Turkey. erhem@med.gazi.edu.tr

    The clinical presentation of patients with vitamin B(12) deficiency varies in a spectrum ranging from haematological disorders to neuropsychiatric diseases. In rare cases, orthostatic hypotension, impotence, constipation and urinary retention have been attributed to autonomic nervous system dysfunction due to vitamin B(12) deficiency. The aim of this study was to evaluate the effect of vitamin B(12) deficiency on autonomic nervous system function by studying gastric emptying times ( T(1/2)). Twenty patients with newly diagnosed vitamin B(12) deficiency and 12 control patients with gastritis and normal vitamin B(12) levels were enrolled in this study. Gastroduodenoscopy, endoscopic biopsy, histopathological evaluation of the biopsy specimens and radionuclide gastric emptying studies were performed. After vitamin B(12) replacement therapy for 3 months, radionuclide gastric emptying studies were repeated. Mean gastric emptying T(1/2) in patients before and after treatment and in controls were 103.83+/-48.80 min, 90.00+/-17.29 min and 74.55+/-8.52 min, respectively. The difference in mean gastric emptying T(1/2) between patients before treatment and controls was statistically significant ( P<0.01). The statistically significant difference persisted after vitamin B(12) treatment ( P<0.05), though mean gastric emptying T(1/2) was somewhat shorter. There were no positive or negative correlations between gastric emptying T(1/2) and the following parameters: haemoglobin, vitamin B(12) level and Helicobacter pylori positivity. In conclusion, gastric emptying T(1/2) was prolonged in patients with vitamin B(12) deficiency and this prolongation was not corrected after vitamin B(12) replacement therapy. Although autonomic nervous system dysfunction due to vitamin B(12) deficiency rarely gives rise to clinical manifestations, latent dysfunction demonstrated by laboratory tests seems to be a frequent phenomenon. The level of vitamin B(12) does not correlate with the degree of autonomic nervous system dysfunction measured by radionuclide gastric emptying studies.

  12. #12
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    Are you suggesting this guy has a autonomic nervous system disease?

    Give a summary of why this study you introduced is affecting this guy, and directly relate the findings of the article with my statements about how vitamins have no kcal and no nutritional value, and therefore do not contribute in his feelings of hunger.

    Please don't cut and paste without giving at least a modicum of an explanation as to what the point of the study you cut and pasted has to do with anything.

    Koffee

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by koffee brown
    Are you suggesting this guy has a autonomic nervous system disease?

    Give a summary of why this study you introduced is affecting this guy, and directly relate the findings of the article with my statements about how vitamins have no kcal and no nutritional value, and therefore do not contribute in his feelings of hunger.

    Please don't cut and paste without giving at least a modicum of an explanation as to what the point of the study you cut and pasted has to do with anything.

    Koffee


    After vitamin B(12) replacement therapy for 3 months, radionuclide gastric emptying studies were repeated. Mean gastric emptying T(1/2) in patients before and after treatment and in controls were 103.83+/-48.80 min, 90.00+/-17.29 min

    The quoted text in bold is where you are falling in the trap.

    That clearly showed a link between b12 and gastric emptying; 14% faster. I was mostly just to try to point out that not everything is about kcals, think about bowel mobility and many other factors (pH, enzymes, etc). I could say water has no calories but if you drink a lot you will feel it in your stomach and it will effect feelings of hunger (try it at home). You must understand from the number of people whom are obese that kcals consumed correlates poorly with feelings of hunger or satiety. Furthermore, you have not rebutted the kinetics versus equilibrium point. However, you have stated the vitamins have no kcals point several times; no need to repeat yet again.

    Please don't give blanket "wrong again" statements; this is a discussion. I respect your normally insightful comments but I don’t feel you have addressed my points sufficiently.

  14. #14
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    The problem is (I should have stated more clearly) is that you're comparing patients with vitamin B12 deficiencies with someone who most likely has no vitamin B 12 deficiency. Patients in this study (which I don't think you published in entirety, so it's even difficult to speculate) will most likely react to an influx in vitamin B 12 than an average, healthy individual. I would never use a study on a sick person to tell a well person how to eat, drink, act, etc. It makes no sense.

    Koffee

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    I have heard that a deficency in some vitamins will supress appetite, maybe DRLski was suffering from malnutrition, and now that he is getting some of what he needs it is causing him to get his appetite back.

  16. #16
    Senior Member DannoXYZ's Avatar
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    There's a difference between macro and micronutrients. They are not interchangable. The feelings of hunger in the brain is triggered by low blood-glucose, insulin and leptin levels. One of the problems with sodas and stuff made with high-fructose corn-syrup is that it does not raise your insulin and leptin levels as much as the same number of calories from say... normal sugar or complex carbs. This leads you to still feel hungry after consuming lots of sodas and still crave eating more foods, thus taking in way more calories than would normally take to feel satiated. The feelings of hunger has to do with macronutrients, taking or not taking vitamins (micronutrients) won't really affect the feelings of hunger one way or the other much.

    There are however, hormones that can affect hunger. Stimulants like ephedra or caffeine can trigger the release of cortisol, epinepherin and glucagon which has the opposite effect of insulin. It causes your adipose tissues to break down fats and proteins to release glycogen/glucose into the bloodstream. This raises your blood-sugar, insulin and leptin and reduces the sensation of hunger, regardless of whether or not you have food in your belly. These stimulants are a major component in diet-pills. There are long-term side-effects...

    Have you changed your diet and total calorie-intake in some way in addition to starting the vitamins? I think those changes probably has more to do with your hunger than the vitamins.
    Last edited by DannoXYZ; 10-13-05 at 07:40 PM.

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    I am wondering though, some of the hormones that cause feelings of hunger, could they not be affected by levels of vitamins, or is there no corralation at all between the homones you speak of and vitamin levels in the blood? I thought that some vitamins would have an effect on the functining of the pancreas?

    I dont know myself but now I am curious.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by koffee brown
    The problem is (I should have stated more clearly) is that you're comparing patients with vitamin B12 deficiencies with someone who most likely has no vitamin B 12 deficiency. Patients in this study (which I don't think you published in entirety, so it's even difficult to speculate) will most likely react to an influx in vitamin B 12 than an average, healthy individual. I would never use a study on a sick person to tell a well person how to eat, drink, act, etc. It makes no sense.

    Koffee
    It is the whole abstract but of course not the whole article. Standard practice in scientific circles is to not even provide that much, just a reference.

    I never said that the person has B12 deficiency, even though it is not all that rare, especially with the elderly and vegetarians. Frankly I never made any statements about the original poster; all I said was that it is possible for feelings of hunger to be effected by vitamin/mineral intake. I only even said this because you straight out dismissed the idea. I think you now realize that kcals do not tell the whole story and that if you did your own research you could find many substances that are not considered food that significantly effect satiety (or lack thereof). I am not trying to prove you wrong or anything but just to point out the confounding variables you missed.

  19. #19
    Senior Member DannoXYZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Someday_RN
    I am wondering though, some of the hormones that cause feelings of hunger, could they not be affected by levels of vitamins, or is there no corralation at all between the homones you speak of and vitamin levels in the blood? I thought that some vitamins would have an effect on the functining of the pancreas?

    I dont know myself but now I am curious.
    Well, the only way vitamins may be involved with digestion and hunger would be a severe vitamin deficiency of some sort. Vitamins A, D, E and K are fat-soluble and are stored long-term, so daily-intakes of these are definitely overkill. In fact, they can actually accumulate too much in the body and actually cause death. Such as eating a polar-bear's heart which is highly rich in vitamin-A. The Inuits would eat a tiny, small portion of this monthly to satisfy all their vitamin-A needs. Even a pregnant woman, needing twice as much as normal amounts, only needs 9mg of vit-A a day.

    I don't think the DRLski's got a problem with lack of any kind of vitamin, so I doubt he's got digestive problems. Most likely he's just not eating enough...
    Last edited by DannoXYZ; 10-15-05 at 09:10 PM.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by DannoXYZ
    I don't think the DRLski's got a problem with lack of any kind of vitamin, so I doubt he's got digestive problems. Most like he's just not eating enough...
    Sometimes the obvious is hard to see. It would make it more interseting if he was deficient.

  21. #21
    Killing Rabbits
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    Sigh...People tend to oversimplify. If you tug at one string in a complex system you will soon find out that the whole thing becomes unravelled.

    "Things should be made as simple as possible; but not simpler." - A.E.

  22. #22
    Senior Member DannoXYZ's Avatar
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    Which string specifically is being tugged on in this case? Which metabolic pathway is being unbalanced? Some of the components in his cocktail is definitely beyond the daily requirements. However, excessive amounts of the water-soluble vitamins simply get flushed down the toilet, just like the money that went into buying them.

    What else is being consumed? If there's a lot of coffee or other stimulants that can cause a problem too as the extra peeing can leech out some nutrients faster than others...

  23. #23
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    The guy is taking 50+ substances and yet it is unfathomable to some that he may have a positive change in appetite.

    Stop thinking about the vitamins role in metabolic function think about the other things they may be changing. Pick any one of those 50+ substances and you will find other functions or side effects of each one. Take Calcium carbonate as an example, it is a simple inorganic salt. Now the main reason it is there is for the calcium ion; I am sure you are well aware of calcium ion channels etc. However, it is also an alkaline substance that will raise the pH of his digestive system (goodbye heartburn) and also will increase the CO2 concentration in his blood stream (which increases the buffering capacity of the blood). Think about it... these are side effects; not the reason they put it in. Now this is one of the simplest compounds on that list; pick something more complex and look up side effects.

    50= substances and which string is being pulled? All of them!

  24. #24
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    No. He is taking a multi-vitamin, not popping 50+ substances. Most likely, something else changed in his lifestyle (ie: increased activity, resistance training, nutrition, etc.). Better to ask him what else changed in his usual routine than to cite some study abstract about vitamin deficient sick people and infer that perhaps it applies to this guy too.

    Koffee

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by koffee brown
    No. He is taking a multi-vitamin, not popping 50+ substances. Most likely, something else changed in his lifestyle (ie: increased activity, resistance training, nutrition, etc.). Better to ask him what else changed in his usual routine than to cite some study abstract about vitamin deficient sick people and infer that perhaps it applies to this guy too.

    Koffee

    So all those things in the multi vitamin he is taking are not really in it?

    Dont you think it is better to look at a study and try to learn using evidence based practices, than say, someone somewhere told me so, so it must be. Something in writing is much better than the spoken word most of what people say is not absorbed anyways. At least he is trying to back up his argument with evidence and not hearsay. And by the list DRski presented he is taking many diferent things, a multi vitamin is more than one substance. Certain substances cause things to change in your body, and it can different for different people.

    Sugar pills can have a tremendous effect on people, maybe the vitamin is acting as a placebo, he thinks the vitamin intake is making it hungry and so it is.
    Catastrophe: Knowing you are about to die and there are still three beers left in the fridge!
    P.L.

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