Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Results 1 to 17 of 17
  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    2,140
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Lethargic legs-Need help

    I have been riding a good amount lately, but giving myself downtime and other forms of exercise. My legs are just dying though, on and off the bike. Going up a couple of flights of stairs has become difficult! It is sad, and a little worriesome. I am sure some of it is a little SAD, but that doesn't explain all of it because the rest of my body is fine. I am going to go try to ride today, but I am worried it is going to be another disaster like Sunday and Monday when I had to turn around after 30 minutes.

  2. #2
    Guest
    Guest
    It may be that you need more recovery time off the bike. What have you been doing to get to the point where you've added downtime, and what have you doing in the past week or so for exercise?

    Just a quick glance makes me think that perhaps you're still suffering from some overtraining, and you may need to take some time off the bike.

    Koffee

  3. #3
    Senior Member DIVA's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    USA
    My Bikes
    ALLEZ DOLCE
    Posts
    124
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Try soaking in the tub w/epsom salt for 20 mins, every day for a few days. Your legs will thank you for it.
    Allez on CompuTrainer until further notice.

  4. #4
    Banned wagathon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    1,728
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Try some Motrin . . . who knows? Might help! e.g. one dose about 20 min. before your next ride. Can't hurt (I hope).

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    rockford, il
    My Bikes
    Trek 7700, C'dale R2000
    Posts
    2,646
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by tekhna
    I have been riding a good amount lately, but giving myself downtime and other forms of exercise. My legs are just dying though, on and off the bike. Going up a couple of flights of stairs has become difficult! It is sad, and a little worriesome. I am sure some of it is a little SAD, but that doesn't explain all of it because the rest of my body is fine. I am going to go try to ride today, but I am worried it is going to be another disaster like Sunday and Monday when I had to turn around after 30 minutes.
    tekhna: You are not giving much information such as age, weight & size, amount of biking, type of biking, intensity of biking.
    Assuming there is nothing fundamentally wrong with you, leg pain can be fit of bike, saddle height, excessive straining instead of spinning and so on.

    My experience is that low stress spinning (at 80 RPM) is therapeutic and should not cause pain. I am age 63 and can do this for 6-10 hours/day. I was not always fit and was able to do slow centuries. Average speed was 10 MPH. Following knee injuries from a slipping accident.
    (two years ago: 240 LB, 74" tall, size 40 waist)

    I bike a lot. I have been warned not to over-train. It has not happened to me yet and I do above 200 miles/week for about two years.
    Often do much more miles than that. Double centuries not uncommon.
    (now 190 LB, 74" tall, 34 waist)
    I hope this helps.

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    2,140
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Well, I can give you the rundown, but it might confuse the situation even more.
    19 year old male, weighed in today at 147 pounds, 6'4". I try to ride at least 30 miles 5 days a week with rest days on Wednesday and Sunday. I also lift weights 3 times a week, concentrating most on lower back and upper body in the weight training.
    I am starting to wonder if some of it might be not eating enough, but I consume somewhere in the neighborhood of 2700-3100 calories a day, and I eat well.
    I rode today, did a very hilly 18.5 miles in about 57 minutes, was my only real hard workout today. Right after my legs felt good like I could go do another 20 miles, but I cut my miles short today, and now my legs are just lethargic. I dunno guys!

  7. #7
    Guest
    Guest
    How long have you been riding? Could you just be pushing yourself too hard without properly training to the speed and distance you've been doing? It sounds like it could be a combination of needing a few more calories in your diet as well as building muscular endurance.

    You can eat 2700- 3100 calories, but are they "clean" calories or what?

    Lots of questions...

    Koffe

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    rockford, il
    My Bikes
    Trek 7700, C'dale R2000
    Posts
    2,646
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by tekhna
    Well, I can give you the rundown, but it might confuse the situation even more.
    19 year old male, weighed in today at 147 pounds, 6'4". I try to ride at least 30 miles 5 days a week with rest days on Wednesday and Sunday. I also lift weights 3 times a week, concentrating most on lower back and upper body in the weight training.
    I am starting to wonder if some of it might be not eating enough, but I consume somewhere in the neighborhood of 2700-3100 calories a day, and I eat well.
    I rode today, did a very hilly 18.5 miles in about 57 minutes, was my only real hard workout today. Right after my legs felt good like I could go do another 20 miles, but I cut my miles short today, and now my legs are just lethargic. I dunno guys!
    You know I am not a Doctor just a well meaning forum member.
    IMHO 6'4" and 147 lb. is undernourished. But please this is just a relative statement.
    I see my-selves with 74" and now 190 lb. BTW I was the same weight of 190 lb. at your age and team member in a German Championship rowing team. I was just skin muscle and bones.
    Therefore, you are skinny.
    Are you sure your bike is fitted for you perfectly? If not, you can damage your joints.
    Now you got me worried.

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    2,140
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    What are you meaning by "clean calories?"
    Here is essentially what I ate today off of FitDay. I don't know if this paste will work, but I'll give it a shot.
    Granola, homemade 570 30 65 18
    Milk, nonfat, fluid, without added vitamin A (fat free or skim) 86 0 12 8
    Coffee, made from ground, regular 5 0 1 0
    Peanut butter 190 16 6 8
    Bagel, wheat 254 1 52 9
    Whey Protein-Chocolate 120 1 3 24
    Milk, cow's, fluid, 2% fat 91 4 9 6
    Chicken curry 438 24 15 41
    Rice, white, short-grain, cooked 302 0 67 5
    Sorbet, fruit, noncitrus flavor 246 0 61 4
    Totals 2302 77 290 124

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    2,140
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Oh, and my calories are a little low because I didn't get up til 12! Midsemester break. Or at least that is my excuse.

  11. #11
    Guest
    Guest
    6' 4", 147 lbs and active with the exercise, as well as being 19 years old... boyfriend, you need a lot more calories than what you're eting. In fact, you're barely eating anything. No wonder why you're so tired!

    I have a sample day meal plan I posted on another thread. I'll find it and paste it so you can get a good sense of what I mean by "eating clean" (ie: no sugary snacks, diet colas or just colas in general, and saturated fats being examples of "nonclean foods").

    Koffee

  12. #12
    Guest
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by tekhna
    Oh, and my calories are a little low because I didn't get up til 12! Midsemester break. Or at least that is my excuse.
    There's no excuse! Even if you get up late, you should make sure you're getting enough calories if you plan to do exercise! Bad boy! Bad! Bad!

    Koffee

  13. #13
    Guest
    Guest
    Here's a sample eating plan I put in another thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by koffee brown
    1) Breakfast needs to happen 100% of the time, but you know that.

    2) You need to eat before you leave out. If you can't get the time, wake up 10 minutes earlier. If you make your breakfast the night before, then all you have to do is eat and run. You need those few extra carbs to get your carbohydrate burning going. Without it, you're going on 70% carbohydrate reserve depletion from sleeping overnight. You're running on pure endorphins, then you get to work and eat, and by that time, you're already lacking carbs, and you just made things go from bad to worse.

    2) I wouldn't trust those granola breakfast bars. They may be higher in fat, but still lacking in carbs. You would have that feeling of fullness (satiety), but it wouldn't last. Try something that's lower in fat and higher in carbs. You need them. Carbs are your friend. Without them, you're going to be feeling pretty tired! Try something like bagals and that cereal that is lower in fat and higher in fiber for breakfast, and perhaps some yougart and half a bagal with a thin smear of fat free creme cheese (or peanut butter) and orange juice (100% fresh, not from concentrate). This is a for instance. It's slightly higher in calories, but also higher in fiber and has a higher glycemic index, so you'll end up digesting the food longer, which will keep your blood sugar levels up longer, and it will keep your energy levels higher overall.

    For a midmorning snack, I'd suggest a bagal with a teaspoon of peanut butter, or some fruit that's lower on the glycemic index, such as an apple, prunes, or cherries. You can also add in an ounce of cheese. You can get the cheese prepackaged at the supermarket and grab a few to leave at work.

    Lunch, again, you'll eat for the slow carb burn- eat a turkey sandwich on whole wheat bread with just a splat of a condiment, along with lettuce and tomatoes. Have a plain salad on the side and you can add in a few slices of carrots and some tomatoes and cucumber slices in the salad mix. You can also cut up another ounce of cheese and stick it in your salad or eat it straight.

    Mid-afternoon, you can have a handful of peanuts, a piece of fruit, and a slice of bread (like pumernickel or whole wheat, or cracked wheat or something like that). That should keep you going until it's time for you to go home.

    For dinner, have about 4 oz of meat (any type), some brown rice, some spinach (or another veggie dish), and a pasta dish (4 oz). You can have another piece of fruit if you want something sweet, or some raisins or something along those lines.

    Cut out the soda, diet or not. It's a calorie waster and it rots your teeth anyway.

    This is what I would hope you'd aim for.... it's a sample diet with enough carbs to get you through the day, but low in fat at all. It should keep your energy levels high throughout the day and going into the evening.

    Koffee

  14. #14
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    69
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by tekhna
    weighed in today at 147 pounds, 6'4".
    You feel like crap 'cuz you got no fat.

  15. #15
    Senior Member DannoXYZ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Saratoga, CA
    Posts
    11,495
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I'm with Koffee & Layton on this one, you gotta eat more. That 2700-3100 calorie diet is fine for someone of your height and weight if you are a completely sedentary office worker. You'll burn a lot more calories than most people just in keeping your body warm, in the arena of 2000-2300 calories (I'm assuming you're between 4-10% body-fat). Doesn't leave much for metabolism and exercise...

    How long have you been riding? I'm assuming for more than 3-months and your pace on a hilly 18.5 mile shows you're in good shape. This means that you can burn off a large number of calories/hour, probably in the range of 700-900/hr on that ride. And you're doing weight-workouts, which will tax your muscles at a higher peak load than any kind of biking.

    What's causing your weakness is this:

    1. lack of carbs on rides, spare protein is used for fuel, then muscles are disassembled
    2. lack of carbs after rides causes body to disassemble muscle to restore glycogen supply
    3. weight workouts on non-cycling muscles causes disassembly of other muscles (legs) to repair upper-body and back


    Here's what you can do in the next couple weeks and I guarantee you'll feel MUCH stronger and can ride MUCH faster within just 1 month:

    1. eat more - you'll need about 3600-3900 calories per day minimum, depending upon your workout schedule. This means 1/2 extra serving of rice immediately after a ride within 15-minutes. And another extra serving in a meal within 2-3 hours. Also eat at least 1-2 energy-bars/gels (150-200cal/each) on your rides.

    2. add more intensity to leg workouts - cut back the rides to 4 days per week. Make one day super-short of 15-miles, no more, and do 4-5 all-out 100% maximum-effort, maximum-RPM screaming sprints. If you're not screaming, you're not pushing hard enough . Go as hard as you can for as long as you can, about 35-45 seconds. Get full recovery between sprints. Then go home...

    3. work on leg-strength in gym - Change one of your gym days to work on legs. Do two weeks of medium-intensity 75-80% of max-lift @ 5-10 reps on the legs. On the 2nd two weeks, do high-intensity 80-95% of max-lift @ 2-7 reps on legs. You can do this before your endurance ride. Try to get one full rest day after your intense leg workout.

    4. do one endurance ride per week on bike. This will make your energy-system more efficient at delivering to your muscles and burn more fat (reduces the muscle catabolism). Try to do a 45-55 mile ride once a week. Eat a meal before you leave, and eat at least 3 energy-bars/gels one the ride, 1 per hour. Drink lots.

    5. take a rest week - on the 5th week, cut back to 3 days of riding and 2 days of light lifting. Still do 1 day of sprints (up to 5-6 sprints now) and 1 day of endurance 50-60 miles. Try to get 1 full rest day every other day.

    After this 5th week, you'll feel like SUPERMAN! Do that hilly 18.5 mile ride again and you'll have taken 5-minutes off. You'll be able to sprint with SNAP, you'll feel like you can rip the handlebars and cranks in half! That's it in a nutshell, EAT more, RIDE HARDER, and LONGER (just not on the same day). You were caught in no-mans-land of training; stuck in the middle.
    Last edited by DannoXYZ; 10-14-05 at 03:43 AM.

  16. #16
    Extreme nutter
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    England
    My Bikes
    Scott AFD expert, with some carbon upgrades.
    Posts
    183
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    yep deffo more food mate, particularly with the weight training.

    no-body mentioned that you should consume at least 1.5-2grams off protein to every 1kg of body weight, when weight training.

    to make make the point here, im 24, 5'11, 10% body fat, i feel dead if i consume anything less than 3,000 callories, infact my daily intake is normally around 6,000.
    Even then i only weight 70kg.
    The only way i manage these is by the use of high carbohydrate supplement drinks.

  17. #17
    Senior Member balto charlie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Baltimore/DC
    Posts
    2,442
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I won't address the nutrition talk. I will agree with Will as to spin 'em easier. You are probably in "no man's land". I was riding 200+ miles/week and hit the wall. Here's the advice given to me at this time. The advice was given to me by racers and long distant riders(6-10,000/year)

    1) This is came from RoadBikeRider.com email I receive weekly and seemed
    appropriate:
    -------------------------------------
    VARY THE INTENSITY

    If there's one trait that distinguishes pros from recreational riders, it's
    how they pace their training. Professional riders can go fast because when
    they train hard (or race), they go like lightning. But when they train
    slowly, they go very, very slowly.

    Conversely, most recreational riders train at a moderate pace -- fast enough
    to feel like they're accomplishing something but not so hard that they're
    suffering unduly. You'll hear some coaches refer to this pace -- about 80%
    of max heart rate -- as "no-man's land." Like the shell-pocked wasteland
    between dug-in armies during World War I, you don't want to be there very
    often.

    Why? Because no-man's land delivers a double whammy. It compromises recovery
    and improvement.

    At a moderately brisk pace of around 80% of max heart rate, you're not going
    slowly enough to recover. You need a pace around 65% of max to pump
    nutrient-rich blood to your leg muscles without stressing them further.

    Unfortunately, when you're languishing in no-man's land, you're also not
    going fast enough to improve. That takes an intensity of about 90% of max.

    When every ride is done at a medium pace, your results are bound to be
    mediocre.

    2) This is a great topic since we are logging a lot of miles. Thanks for
    > all the beta folks. So by light riding are we only talking speed or
    > speed & distance.

    i'm not sure charlie, but i think intensity/effort is the key, as
    opposed to length of ride. i think you can recover on a long ride, as
    long as you go easy.

    > Also I have no idea what my heart rate is. So can
    > I use my speed as a simple indicator? Do you think if I drop my speed
    > 3-4 miles per hour I would be achieving similar results. I'm not
    > looking to become the next Lance but am feeling "leg dead" lately.

    don't go by speed--that varies too much with the weather and road
    conditions, and how tired you are. for a recovery ride, don't even
    look at your bike computer. what's important is how you feel--don't
    push yourself.

    > I
    > don't mind going slower but I will be damned if I let a mnt biker w/
    > knobbies pass me;-)

    the hardest part of the program is resisting temptation! you'll catch
    that guy some other day, especially if he doesn't know how to vary the
    intensity of his workouts.

    3) You can use Rating of Perceived Effort (RPE) as your guide. While this
    still talks about Heart Rate, there's a scale at the bottom:

    http://www.cptips.com/percxtn.htm

    Basically, you just judge your exertion rate and add a zero using a scale
    from 6 (lightest) to 20 (toughest) to roughly estimate your heart rate.

    Others use an RPE going from 1 to 10. From Fred Matheny's book, "Complete
    Book of Road Bike Training":

    5 = an easy spin along bike path
    6 = light effort
    7 = breathing steadily and rhythmically
    8 = breathing harder but but not panting
    9 = beginning to gasp and can't converse
    10= riding as hard as you can

    I have also heard about using the conversation factor too. If you can carry
    on a casual conversation with someone without fighting for breath, that
    might count as light. But RPE is fairly widely used and accepted.

    Yeah, I know what you mean when you see a "rabbit" go by you and that
    temptation to chase is there. Unfortunately, sometimes you just don't
    realize that you're throwing yourself out of whack for several more days.
    Another quote - "ride at an effort and speed that anyone could do."

    BTW, I also try to take one day and do some weight lifting as well. Breaks
    up the routine. Works the anerobic vs the aerobic.

    I don't think speed/distance really matter as much as long as your RPE stays
    low. In training literature, recovery rides seem to be kept to about an
    hour, though.

    I remember training for a century and one week just feeling lousy and tired.
    Didn't want to get on the bike. So, I took a few days off completely. I
    came back feeling pretty refreshed and realized I had gotten into
    overtraining.

    So, after all is said and done, I think the main point is to listen to your
    body and above all, keep it fun.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •