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  1. #26
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    I am totally partial to the RevMaster because they ride well, and because Paul is a great friend of mine. I'm really glad you like it. I'll tell him there's another cyclist converted!

    Koffee

  2. #27
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    For those looking into a spin bike, I bought a spin bike through a spin instructor from Mad Dog Athetics. I would avoid them at all costs. Customer service was very poor and shipping time was nearly a month. I got the Elite model and it is awesome built bike and have had no problems with it. The Johnny G Spinner bikes are built by Star Trak. They have have the same line of bikes available at various outlets and internet sites. I have tried out the RevMaster and it is an excellent bike. Locally the Revmaster was a bit highter in price than most places so I went with the Star Trak Elite/Johnny G Elite Spinner. I really liked the RevMaster's computer option. I am installing a computer on the Elite to provide me with info while training. I am a novice rider. Originally I bought the spin bike to just loose some weight and stay fit. Since I've had it I have started to train hard rather use it just to loose weight and stay fit. GD

  3. #28
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    Those folks at MDA are bull*bleep*! I wouldn't trust anything brought from them. They are like Walmart... get as much money off a poorly made product and provide no customer service. Star Trak is alright as long as you don't get the Johnny G model.

    Koffee

  4. #29
    Senior Member plin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by koffee brown
    Still no real internet yet, but when I do, I'll be offering up a few workouts based on power for the indoor trainer, depending on what type of training you're working towards. It was an awesome weekend of workshops given by Hunter Allen, featuring Joe Friel and Hunter Allen talking about training with power. I learned a ton, and I'm putting my notes together to put up something more comprehensive.
    I am still waiting for those notes on power training with Joe Friel. Oh well, I can just buy his book.

  5. #30
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    Keep on waiting... I've just moved and everything is still packed away. But I do hope to take this weekend to get everything unpacked and get myself squared away. Keep reminding me.

    Koffee

  6. #31
    Email for new group DnvrFox's Avatar
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    Great Thread!

    I have added it as a link to the web page for the Bicycle Trainer Support Group. (We are up to 58 members now)

    I have combined weight lifting and aerobics training for many years now.

    Incidentally, the web site for "Supertraining" has some most interesting threads on endurance training (including for bicycling) through weight training, and some current discussion showing it may be more effective than aerobic training. Very controversial in the group.

    See the thread on Endurance Paradox.

    I don't know! Read it and figure it out for yourself. This is a huge, very "intellectual" group started by Dr. Mel Siff, a guru in fitness (recently deceased).
    Last edited by DnvrFox; 11-18-05 at 05:44 AM.
    Almost gone from the 50+ forum. - Email me at dnvrfox@aol.com for another fun new group of 50+ folks

  7. #32
    Royal Grand Exalted Pooba smoke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by koffee brown
    Keep on waiting... I've just moved and everything is still packed away. But I do hope to take this weekend to get everything unpacked and get myself squared away. Keep reminding me.

    Koffee
    hey, koffee, are these "workouts based on power" going to require me to buy some type of expensive power meter equipment, or join a spinning class? or is it stuff that can be gauged by heart rate or some other way?

  8. #33
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    I should clarify- I'm not going to put up specific workouts with power for people to follow- that is tedious and takes time to put together, and quite frankly, is something I would do as someone's coach, not just throwing up on the forums. But I can talk about how to put together a training program in general and how to ensure that you are able to increase your power overall.

    If you do want to train for power, you should definitely get some type of power meter. There is one out there that is very inexpensive, but you cannot use it on a trainer, and there are certain conditions under which it gives wacked out readouts. But otherwise... yes. You should get some kind of power meter.

    Koffee

  9. #34
    Royal Grand Exalted Pooba smoke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by koffee brown
    I should clarify- I'm not going to put up specific workouts with power for people to follow- that is tedious and takes time to put together, and quite frankly, is something I would do as someone's coach, not just throwing up on the forums. But I can talk about how to put together a training program in general and how to ensure that you are able to increase your power overall.

    If you do want to train for power, you should definitely get some type of power meter. There is one out there that is very inexpensive, but you cannot use it on a trainer, and there are certain conditions under which it gives wacked out readouts. But otherwise... yes. You should get some kind of power meter.

    Koffee
    okay, i'll bite. what is the one that's inexpensive? i'll assume it's accurate, except for those 'certain conditions'. you can e-mail me the answer if you'd rather not shout it in a public forum. thanks. i didn't get the impression you were going to publish specific workouts. i'm looking forward to your ideas about increasing power

  10. #35
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    Sorry... I want to say it's i-bike, but I'm too sleepy to remember it properly. If it's any different, I'll post back tomorrow most likely.

    Koffee

  11. #36
    Cycle Guy cupajoe@cupajoe's Avatar
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    There is some great stuff in this thread! Trying to figure out what to do on your trainer is always a challenge (and I don't have the coin to purchase an iMagic). I found this new software that look promising called SpinWare (www.spinware.50megs.com). I don't think it is finished yet but the workouts posted are useful.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by koffee brown
    Sorry. Somehow I didn't see this.

    A strong core is definitely necessary- you have to be able to hold yourself upright, and a strong core will also help prevent against back pain. Core training will do every person some good. A pilates class a few times a week would definitely work your core, but if you can't do pilates, try doing some ab exercises and some back exercises instead.

    Koffee
    The problem with Pilates is that it's done lying down, right? I agree it's good stuff, but it doesn't work functionally for people who are upright and hurt their backs because they haven't trained themselves how to squat, dead-lift or balance or perform activities that must be done standing or sitting while using the lumbar spine. Pilates is good, don't get me wrong, but it's just a start. More functional core programs are better IMHO.
    I love France. I just hate Toulouse. I'd really hate to lose le Trek.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by DannoXYZ
    ...Machines are preferred for safety...
    But mostly for health club owners with huge liability policies. The problem with a lot of machines is that they're simply bad for you. The seated ab machines actually cause low back pain. So do the seated extension machines. The seated trunk rotation machines are dangerous. Prone leg curls work a part of the hamstring that is almost useless for athletes (unless you're a bodybuilder). Seated leg extensions exercise the quads in isolation and therefore are without function, unlike squats, lunges, split squats, etc., unless of course, you want to kick your cat really hard.

    Machines are not preferred by athletes. Free weights are preferred. Functional movements are preferred by the better trainers, not machines. Safety comes from proper instruction, another thing health club owners do not want to pay for. Proper instruction means people learn how to use their bodies correctly and safely, so that free weights are used safely. Further, training muscles in isolation is a bad idea, and doing so dumbs down the nervous system, making people more vulnerable to injury. On the contrary, training movement patterns, not individual muscles, will make you a better athlete. Machines, for the most part, cannot accomplish that.

    Mike Boyle, Juan Carlos Santana, etc., and the functional training seminars they offer shouldn't be missed by any athlete anywhere.
    I love France. I just hate Toulouse. I'd really hate to lose le Trek.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by CapeRoadie
    The problem with Pilates is that it's done lying down, right? I agree it's good stuff, but it doesn't work functionally for people who are upright and hurt their backs because they haven't trained themselves how to squat, dead-lift or balance or perform activities that must be done standing or sitting while using the lumbar spine. Pilates is good, don't get me wrong, but it's just a start. More functional core programs are better IMHO.
    Then give examples and describe some good functional core programs. Thanks.

    Koffee

  15. #40
    Royal Grand Exalted Pooba smoke's Avatar
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    okay, cape. let's talk lifting from both a general health and a cycling viewpoint, and see what you think. i'm looking at an article that says you want to do multi-joint exercises (whatever that is). it goes on to say that if you lift, there are four multi-joint exercises you need to do above all others; pull-ups, squats, bench presses, and deadlifts. do you buy all that? i've also been toying with the idea of buying a home machine to do my lifting and get rid of the club membership. if you agree with the above stuff, it seems to me i wouldn't even have to buy a large home machine. all i would need would be a bench, a tall rack for bench presses and squats (maybe with pull-up handles on it), a bar or two, and some weights. does this sound reasonable?

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by koffee brown
    Then give examples and describe some good functional core programs. Thanks.

    Koffee
    I gave some examples already. Horse stance (Paul Chek), cross-crawls, squats, one-legged squats, lunges, step-ups, suitcase squats, split squats, abdominal hollows during cycling or running, or anything in a Stuart McGill book. Abdominal bracing is key when lifting. The best ab exercise I've seen is simply a reverse sit-up. I like the standing crunch as well.
    I love France. I just hate Toulouse. I'd really hate to lose le Trek.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by smoke
    okay, cape. let's talk lifting from both a general health and a cycling viewpoint, and see what you think. i'm looking at an article that says you want to do multi-joint exercises (whatever that is). it goes on to say that if you lift, there are four multi-joint exercises you need to do above all others; pull-ups, squats, bench presses, and deadlifts. do you buy all that? i've also been toying with the idea of buying a home machine to do my lifting and get rid of the club membership. if you agree with the above stuff, it seems to me i wouldn't even have to buy a large home machine. all i would need would be a bench, a tall rack for bench presses and squats (maybe with pull-up handles on it), a bar or two, and some weights. does this sound reasonable?
    I like pull-ups, squats and dead lifts (esp. RDLs), but I think push-ups are better than bench presses, although it's hard to convince coaches of that. Need more weight for a push-up? Just add plates! Use a spotter. Want instability with your push-ups? Do them on medicine balls or Swiss balls. Want to run faster? Try one-legged squats instead of squats. After all, you don't hop on two feet when you run. Want to run downhill better? Do lunges and walking lunges. Want a better hamstring exercise than prone hamstring curls? Do bridges on a Swiss ball. Need more weight? Add plates. Use a spotter. I'll tell you this: EVERYTHING starts with core strength. You can't even blink an eye unless transverse abdominus is contracting. Most people don't do an abdominal hollow (or draw-in) correctly. Even some Pilates instructors I've treated don't have it right. Who taught me? For one, Gwen Jull. Just do a PubMed search on her...she's great!
    I love France. I just hate Toulouse. I'd really hate to lose le Trek.

  18. #43
    Senior Member Idioteque's Avatar
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    So what if a person is stuck to machines for leg muscle training, should i just not do them and cross train more such as jogging? (no trainer option).

  19. #44
    Royal Grand Exalted Pooba smoke's Avatar
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    yo. cape. i tried your romanian dead lifts today. i looked 'em up and made sure i knew the right way to do 'em before i went to the gym. been fighting pain in my lower back all day. gettin' old is hell

  20. #45
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    Good stuff, cape.

    Quote Originally Posted by CapeRoadie
    Most people don't do an abdominal hollow (or draw-in) correctly.
    Is this the same as the abdominal bracing you mentioned in a previous post? It sounds kind of like the abdominal thing some yoga movements recommend (pull your navel (sp?) up and back. Could you elaborate or post a link?

  21. #46
    Senior Member KeithA's Avatar
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    Maybe someone can help me out here. I'm trying to make the most productive use of my RevMaster. Some of my Spinerval DVD's are blue zone, while others (most) put you into the red zone.

    Now, if I'm trying to build my base, will it set me backwards if I mix some red zone training with blue zone stuff? Blue zone training is pretty mundane and red zone is more demanding, but my goal is to improve my cycling when March rolls around. Can I mix them up?

  22. #47
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    What's blue zone and red zone?

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by koffee brown
    What's blue zone and red zone?
    You know, I'm not absolutely sure. With the blue zone, he stresses keeping your heart rate at about 60-80% of maximum and with his red zone stuff, he wants you to push much harder, sometimes at spurts of 90-100%. I think the blue zone training is designed to establish your aerobic base and the red zone training is designed to develop your anaerobic system.

    So, what I'm after is if it is self defeating to even do anaerobic work when I'm trying to establish an aerobic base.

  24. #49
    Senior Member KeithA's Avatar
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    This article indicates that, during the off season, it is more beneficial in the long run to exclusively concentrate on building your aerobic base.

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by KeithA
    You know, I'm not absolutely sure. With the blue zone, he stresses keeping your heart rate at about 60-80% of maximum and with his red zone stuff, he wants you to push much harder, sometimes at spurts of 90-100%. I think the blue zone training is designed to establish your aerobic base and the red zone training is designed to develop your anaerobic system.

    So, what I'm after is if it is self defeating to even do anaerobic work when I'm trying to establish an aerobic base.
    Did it give a sample training plan so you know how to use the spinervals? But yes- if you're working on building an aerobic base, doing workouts to increase aerobic capacity and power would be of limited use right now.

    Koffee

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