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Thread: Weight lifting

  1. #1
    Breaker of Spokes P. B. Walker's Avatar
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    Weight lifting

    I want to start weight lifting to supplement my cycling. I don't want to lift to gain muscle mass, but rather to tone up and help gain endurance on the bike. I'm also currently trying to lose weight.

    I commute to work and have to go to a nearby gym to take a shower. It's not a very fancy gym but has more than adequate equipment. It's free to me because of where I work.. what can I say.

    I usually try to ride to work 2 or 3 times per week. Commute is 23 miles round trip. Then I do at least one ride on the weekend or maybe 2... but I usually try to do 30 to 50 miles on the weekend - either in one ride or over two rides.

    I was wondering if anyone can suggest some good weight lift exercises to do that will help with overall muscle tone and endurance. I want to work both my upper body and legs. Suggestions as to number of sets and reps is also helpful. I'm thinking I don't want to do high weight, but rather lower weight and do more reps.

    Any help is great. Thanks.

    PBW

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    cycle-powered nathank's Avatar
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    PBW,

    sounds like a good plan. lifting should fit in quite nice with your weight-loss as buidling muscle raises your metabolism so you body burns more calories all the time...

    as far as weight lifting, there are so many options and i could easily write a book...

    probably the main determining factor is how often will you go: once a week, twice a week, 3 times, or more?

    with 3 times a week, i suggest a breakdown of
    1) chest-triceps-stomach
    2) back(upper and lower)-biceps
    3) legs-shoulders-stomach
    ** the idea is one BIG muscle group (chest,back or legs) + smaller groups also trained (i.e. back exercises usually train biceps too, chest usually triceps). do the big muscle group first, then the smaller, then finally stomach or some other fine-tuning

    stomach can be worked out more often, but for all other muscle groups, leave a MINIMUM of 48 hours between workouts!! during this time the muscle is in recovery so working out a 2nd time can do more damage than good.

    for 3 days, do 3-4 sets of 8-12 repetitions of 2-4 different exercises for each muscle group (e.g. for chest-tri, do 3 sets of 10 of bench, 3 sets of 10 of flys, 3 sets of 10 of military press, 3 sets of 10 of tri-extension, 3 sets of 10 of tri kickbakcs)
    * under the 3-day, each workout should be roughly 45 minutes to 1:15
    * for most exercises, do 3-4 sets with 1-2 minutes pause between each set (or wear a pulse monitor and repeat when your heart is below a certain level - usually about 105 or so - or wear the monitor once and then "learn" what this level feels like)

    for 2 days a week do either
    *upper body one day and lower body another
    *combine legs with one of the 3-day chest or back days above
    * use 3-day breakdown and just rotate, so you do eat muscle group once every week-and-a-half or so

    for 1 day, you can kind of do a little of each or rotate weeks...

    for specific exercises and how to do them properly, maybe look on the web or ask better yet ask a trainer in the gym...
    Last edited by nathank; 10-10-02 at 09:13 AM.
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    Breaker of Spokes P. B. Walker's Avatar
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    nathank... thanks for the suggestions. They sound great.

    I was actually planning on coming into the same gym that I shower at on my off-biking days. So, if I ride 3 days that week, then the other 2 days I would drive in and lift. The gym opens at 6:30 and I try to get there around 6:30 to 6:45 when I bike. When I drive I would get there right at 6:30. If I only bike 2 days that week, then I'd try to lift the other 3 days. Or if for some reason I can't bike a certain day (appt later in the day, etc, etc,) then I'd trade that bike ride with weight lifting.

    I'd like to keep my weight lifting work out to under 45 mins. I plan on doing a 5 min warm up on the stationary bike and a 5 min cool down on the threadmill. So that leaves me with about 35 mins of actual weight lifting.

    Since I don't know exactly when I'll be lifting or how often, I kinda wanted to work my whole body each time. Instead of just concentrating on certain groups. The reason for this is that if I ride on Monday, then lift on Tues and work on say pecs and biceps, then end up biking Weds, Thurs and Fri, then I've basically ignore the rest of my body lifting wise that entire week.

    Does this sound possible? Working out my entire body I mean. Basically, I wouldn't concentrate on anyone muscle group, but rather work them all equally. I was hoping I could just come up with 2 or 3 different workout circuits, each with unique exercises so that it doesn't get dull. So I'd just cycle thru each different workout circuit... 1st day of workout use circuit A, 2nd day of workout use circuit B, etc. Each circuit would have exercises that would work my entire body and would take approx. 35 mins to get through.


    Thoughts?

    PBW

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    I think a 12-15 rep range is usually recommended for endurance training(which entails relatively light weight).I think the full body split is actually the way to go for endurance/toning doing perhaps two or three sets of 2 or three exercises for each body part(probably the low end initially).Keep the rest between sets and exercises low as this will build endurance and help burn more fat as well.Focus on doing the movement correctly and feeling the targeted muscle group working rather than simply going through the motions.Start with low weight or even just the bar and add weight gradually. You should probably vary the exercises initially as well and settle on those that seem most effective for you at that time(believe me this will change over time).There are several websites with video like demonstrations of exercises but I don't have the URL's.Like nathank suggest a trainer may be helpful initially to recommend and demonstrate exercises but I'll try and wing it and give you a sample with one compound and one isolation exercise per group.Abs(hanging leg raises/crunches)Chest(bench press/fly)Back(cable pulldown/row)shoulder(press/lateral raise)Bicep(curl/cable curl)Tricep(french press/cable pushdowns)Quads(squat/extensions)hams(bent knee deadlift/curls)calves(standing toe raises/seated toe raises).

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    Wood Licker Maelstrom's Avatar
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    Originally posted by P. B. Walker
    nathank... thanks for the suggestions. They sound great.

    I Does this sound possible? Working out my entire body I mean. Basically, I wouldn't concentrate on anyone muscle group, but rather work them all equally. I was hoping I could just come up with 2 or 3 different workout circuits, each with unique exercises so that it doesn't get dull. So I'd just cycle thru each different workout circuit... 1st day of workout use circuit A, 2nd day of workout use circuit B, etc. Each circuit would have exercises that would work my entire body and would take approx. 35 mins to get through.


    Thoughts?

    PBW
    Thats the way I would do it. Split the body into very distinct areas.

    Chest - flat bench - incline bench - dumbell bench
    upperback - barbell rows - widepullups - chinups (reverse hand narrow)
    lowerback - hyper extensions - deadlift - I don't remember the name but place a barbell on shoulder like squat space legs out and bend at the waist keep back straight (Awesome)
    shoulders - dumbell press - barbell press - arnold press
    quads - Squats - legs exts
    hams - Stiff deadlifts - leg curls
    calves - donkey raises - standing calf raises
    tricep - headbasher - kickback - overhead extension
    bicep - barbell curl - preacher curl - dumbell curls

    For example then select compound exercises for each and cycle through them in a circuit method. Switch up the exercises and you will be set in endurance with strength. You will be wiped out and have enough exercises to give you variety.

    Doing something like this 2 times a week for 3 or 4 circuits at 12 to 15 reps will greatly increase anaerobic endurance and strength.

    Most of all have fun and enjoy the pain

  6. #6
    cycle-powered nathank's Avatar
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    I was actually planning on coming into the same gym that I shower at on my off-biking days. So, if I ride 3 days that week, then the other 2 days I would drive in and lift. The gym opens at 6:30 and I try to get there around 6:30 to 6:45 when I bike. When I drive I would get there right at 6:30. If I only bike 2 days that week, then I'd try to lift the other 3 days. Or if for some reason I can't bike a certain day (appt later in the day, etc, etc,) then I'd trade that bike ride with weight lifting.
    i think that sounds reasonable. the only thing you should think about is that if you work legs, cycling the next day may be HARD and not really very good for your training IF your legs are sore (and if you're working them right, they should be for 2-3 days afterward. my legs take longer to recover than other muscles). IF you ride the day after a leg workout, you should ride easy and make sure to ONLY spin and NO Sprints. anyway, you should feel this in your legs - the heavy burning - so you'll know what to watch for.

    maybe you have time restrictions, but if it were me, i would work out ON the days you ride to work -- i.e. these are then work days - and then your non-ride days are rest/recover days... but as long as you have one rest day and at least 2 days between muscle groups, should be fine too.
    why drive when you can ride?
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    Gravity Is Yer Friend dirtbikedude's Avatar
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    One simple fact, muscle weighs more then fat.
    If you have never lifted before then your body will build muscle quickly and you might not see any weight loss and even some gain in the first few months. Do not get discouraged though, you will be burning more fat.

    Slainte

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    cycle-powered nathank's Avatar
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    Since I don't know exactly when I'll be lifting or how often, I kinda wanted to work my whole body each time. Instead of just concentrating on certain groups. The reason for this is that if I ride on Monday, then lift on Tues and work on say pecs and biceps, then end up biking Weds, Thurs and Fri, then I've basically ignore the rest of my body lifting wise that entire week.

    Does this sound possible? Working out my entire body I mean. Basically, I wouldn't concentrate on anyone muscle group, but rather work them all equally. I was hoping I could just come up with 2 or 3 different workout circuits, each with unique exercises so that it doesn't get dull. So I'd just cycle thru each different workout circuit... 1st day of workout use circuit A, 2nd day of workout use circuit B, etc. Each circuit would have exercises that would work my entire body and would take approx. 35 mins to get through.
    well, i would say as you're beginning, it's probably OK to work the whole body because you're going to benefit tremendously from just a little lifting, but you really gain more from your efforts if you do the concentrated effort. i would say if you're going 2 times a week, after the 1st 4 weeks you should really think about dividing your training. personally, my gym membership ran out last June and i was only able to make it to lift once a month until 2 weeks ago (from '98-00 i went 5-6 times per week, '00 3-4 times, and last year 2 times per week until June '02). now i am going 2-3 times a week (paying each time) until i find a permanent gym... but i've still been sticking to the division of 1-major, 1-minor and 1-small/other(stomach) muscle group per workout... i think even if you go 2-3 weeks between workouts for a muscle group it is still better to divide than to do a half-$ss workout for the whole body... maybe others differ here?

    you timing of 35 minutes of lifting sounds fine as long as you keeps your rests short which you should (unless you're training for mass, then resting more is often better - also controversial).

    as RWTD suggests, higher reps may bring better results for endurance sports (i'm a skinny "hard-gainer" type so i actually like gaining mass). in general: 6-8 is for power, 10-12 general, and 12-15 for endurance

    and the exercises Maelstrom lists are all good.

    start out with a routine and then do it for a few weeks and then change and do different stuff - do different exercises or change them up or just use a wider grip or whatever. basically, your body gets stronger being faced with a NEW stress and adapting, so you have to change things every few weeks or else the body "gets adapted" to the exercises and routine and you don't gain much (you're in maintenance mode). the secret to most serious weight trainers is almost constant variety and always surprizing the body to make it adapt to more and more and ever growing stronger. of course, when you're starting out this doesn't matter much as ANY training stresses the body since you're not used to it. but after say 2 months, if you don't change, you'll think "gee, i was gaining so fast and now i'm not. what happened?"

    ok, well actualy, it's 7pm and i'm still in the office and i need to get to the gym for my Chest-Biceps-stomach workout...
    why drive when you can ride?
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    congrats on weightlifting. the benefits you'll get from it are tremendous, especially combined with biking. alas, i have neglected weight training for many years because of work/family duties, and it has been to my detriment. here are some pieces of advice i've learned in the course of weightlifting for many years:

    1) your "form" while lifting is crucial. it is easy to injure yourself by trying to lift too much using poor form or technique. the key is quality over quantity. weights can inflict huge injuries if they are not handled correctly. for that reason i would strongly urge you to "buddy up" with someone who is experienced that can show you the correct form to prevent injuring yourself. in general, it is important to lift the weight smoothly, with minimal rocking or swaying of your body, then lower it smoothly, to get the excellent benefits of "negative" lift.

    2) as someone else has already mentioned, lift an amount of weight that will have you doing at least eight repetitions (reps) before that muscle is exhausted. i always shot for between eight and 12 reps. heavy-duty body builders lift massive weights for, maybe, 3-4 reps. people who want to focus on muscle tone and/or endurance lift up to 16-20 reps. it all depends on your goals. i was always middle of the road in my desire to add a bit of muscle mass, so i shot for 8-12. after you do your reps, rest, and do another "set" of reps, until you have done three. then move on to the next exercise.

    3) also as someone has said, focus on specific muscle groups on each visit to the gym. in weightlifting it is important that the muscle group you work has time to rebuild, because what you are basically doing when you weight train is tearing muscle fiber, then allowing it to rebuild stronger (and bigger). the one muscle group you can work each time is abdominals, because the recover very quickly. i was on a four-day routine: a) arms (triceps and biceps)/stomach. b) legs/back c) shoulders/stomach d) chest

    4) don't make the mistake of neglecting any muscle groups. the idea with weight training is symetry, and your body will thank you for making it strong all over. you'll feel great after a few weeks, and you will be amazed how immune you become to the little aches and pains that may have once plagued you. you will be more comfortable on the bike for longer, and MUCH less prone to injury.

    5) expect to be massively sore, especially at first! the soreness is your body telling that you have stressed your muscles. work through that first few weeks and it won't be nearly so bad, and you'll start to feel like superman! good luck. i'm envious.

  10. #10
    Breaker of Spokes P. B. Walker's Avatar
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    Thanks for all the info and suggestions. I'm definitely looking for endurance rather than bulking up. I'm a pretty big guy already (ex-football player, ex-crew guy). I really want to tone and build endurance.

    I will start out with the 2 to 3 sets of 12-15 reps. See how that goes.

    Thanks all.

    PBW

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    山馬鹿 Spire's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Maelstrom


    lowerback - hyper extensions - deadlift - I don't remember the name but place a barbell on shoulder like squat space legs out and bend at the waist keep back straight (Awesome)
    Its a Good Morning!
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    Wood Licker Maelstrom's Avatar
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    Thank you. I am surprised I forgot the name. Back and legs are my forte.

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    You might want to look at the book "Body for Life" by Bill Phillips. It has good workout routines that last about 45 minutes.
    Gary

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    Member LngDistance's Avatar
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    Check out last month's issue of bycycling mag, they have a good core workout for cycling, actually almost any issue you pick up will have some good tips.

    A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single pedal.

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    Senior Member WaltH's Avatar
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    I'm no expert but I would keep the weight and sets low, and the reps high. I've always been told this will build strength, not mass. Rather than doing 3 sets of 10 at 180 pounds, do 2 sets of 30 at 100 pounds. My 2 cents but I would consult a trainer and get a professional opinion.

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    Life's Too Short urbanking's Avatar
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    As for endurance... You may want to find another form of excersie for that one, maybe something more fun, and will be effective much faster. I know i like to use an excersis biek in the winter
    Live To Ride, Ride To Live!!

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    Wood Licker Maelstrom's Avatar
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    I am sorry but I will disagree. You may have strong aerobic endurance (road Cycling does this) but the fastest way to develop anaerobic endurace (kind of an oxy-moron) is to do thing that put anaerobic stress on the muscles AND require long distance or time. Unless you are pedalling full bore on the hardest setting for 45 minutes (I mean FULL BORE) you won't come close to the anerobic endurance found with weight lifting. Let alone strength.

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    Another technique I personally noticed transfer from weight training to running/cycling etc is quick burst speed.This is enhanced by weight training explosively ie trying to lift a heavier weight rapidily or trying to exploded upward .The downward or eccentric portion should be done in a more recoil fashion to enhance the next explosive upward move.Think of a baseball pitcher winding up and then exploding on the delivery.

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