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Training & Nutrition Learn how to develop a training schedule that's good for you. What should you eat and drink on your ride? Learn everything you need to know about training and nutrition here.

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Old 05-17-01, 12:50 PM   #1
Rickm
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Does anyone have any opinions on using plain old honey as a replacement of GU or PowerGel? It is a simple carb that seems to give the same boost as the popular brands.
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Old 05-17-01, 01:08 PM   #2
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Yeah, but getting the bees to make it mocha or berry flavored has been the problem.

Besides, who would pay $1.35 for one ounce of honey? Now I will gladly pay that for a specially formulated blend of simple sugars (years in the making under the direction of former East German researchers) with artificial flavor and a shot of caffeine in a colorful wrapper.

That's value Baby!!
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Old 05-17-01, 05:37 PM   #3
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Who needs the whole bottle of honey? Just fill up the little GU dispenser with honey and put it in your shirtback pocket.
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Old 05-17-01, 06:35 PM   #4
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Drug stores sell little 2- or 3-oz bottles similar to water bottles, with the click top, that could be used for stuff like that. Such a bottle would fit in a jersey pocket but not explode.
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Old 05-18-01, 07:32 AM   #5
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I have to say, honey works just as well. I even remeber one of the big bike magazines doing a little side bar on this ("Bicycling"?). GU has a small squeeze bottle to use w/ their x-large containers of GU, just use one of these.

A pre-ride experiment I've been doing lately is to eat 2 heaping tablespoons of peanut butter right before I leave for the ride. Good calorie boost in a small package, not pure sugar, the fat in it isn't to bad for you and seems easy to digest easy. So far so good.
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Old 05-18-01, 11:46 AM   #6
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Sounds like just the excuse I've been looking for to eat more peanut butter!
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Old 05-18-01, 12:18 PM   #7
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4-5 years ago one of my little brothers dumped a 1 lb. tub of honey on the floor. Before a big person found it he had gotten it all over the kitchen, and a cuople of the other little kids had walked through it and tracked it all over the house. It took all day for my dad,mom and I to clean it up. I don't like honey anymore.
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Old 05-29-01, 07:24 AM   #8
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In the old days, before GOO and all the other pre-packaged frosting-like (nummy) energy, well, "goo", honey was a popular quickie fuel for athletes.

Honey has a mix of simple and complex sugars that the modern slurps try to similate.

Honey is a good source of highly concentrated fructose which is one of the best low-burn "time-released" anti-crash sugars available.

Some of the lower-grade impure honeys also have fairly high sucrose levels if the bee keepers feed sugar water to the bees (for higher honey yield). Personally, I stay away from sucrose due to the crash. If your honey crystalizes in the jar, then it is likely that the bees have been fed sucrose.

By the way, if you have allergies, locally produced honey is good medicine. Because it contains much of the local pollens that cause you to suffer, eating local honey acts as a kind of vacine (well, not actually a vacine, but you get the idea). The next time your nose gets stuffy, take two tablespoons of locally produced honey. Local honey is sold in most grocery stores - just read the label and see where it was produced.
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Old 05-29-01, 10:56 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by mike
In the old days, before GOO and all the other pre-packaged frosting-like (nummy) energy, well, "goo", honey was a popular quickie fuel for athletes. Honey has a mix of simple and complex sugars that the modern slurps try to similate.
We are always trying to copy nature. One thing that always puzzled me was wood-grained plastic, or stone-simulated wall covering. It used to be a little insulting to me, but I guess plastic looks pretty sorry by itself. Nowadays, I don't care as much about whether things are real anymore. "Titanic" would have been a really bad movie for me if I did (all movies would have been really bad.)

Quote:
Honey is a good source of highly concentrated fructose which is one of the best low-burn "time-released" anti-crash sugars available. Some of the lower-grade impure honeys also have fairly high sucrose levels if the bee keepers feed sugar water to the bees (for higher honey yield). Personally, I stay away from sucrose due to the crash. If your honey crystalizes in the jar, then it is likely that the bees have been fed sucrose.
I remember reading somewhere that the slow-acting properties of fructose can be changed by simply ingesting some sucrose along with it, having something to do with the chemistry in your body. Looks like I'll avoid crystallized honey!

But don't forget my favorite: orange juice! Say, can concentrated o.j. substitute for GU?

Last edited by LittleBigMan; 05-29-01 at 10:59 AM.
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Old 05-29-01, 10:59 AM   #10
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I once filled my camelbak full of honey...boy, I won't do that again. Although, now my water has this nice, sweet after taste...
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Old 05-30-01, 01:31 PM   #11
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Could you powder up granola and mix it in with honey? Would that work?

Also, honey has high fructose levels, but I'm assuming, no "high fructose corn syrup" right?
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Old 05-30-01, 06:45 PM   #12
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William Karsten: I'm not sure if you are joking or not.

can you mix granola with honey? Well, yes, but it would be hard to swallow. Actually, if you are into granola, you can very easily make your own using honey instead of sugar. You can also add fruit. If you are interested, let me know and I will send you a recipe.

Some honey DOES have corn syrup. This is not usually the case in the USA where natural honey is abundant and cheap. However, overseas where honey is highly prized, adultrated honey is rampant. This adultrated honey has corn syrup and other sugar syrups mixed with real honey and then sold as honey.

I never thought of this kind of thing until I was traveling with my Chinese friend in northern China near the Great Wall. It was wall to wall bee keepers selling honey on the side of the road. I couldn't believe there were so many bee keepers in one area. My friend told me they were mostly fakes. We stopped and he had some method of determining real honey from the adultrated stuff (my friend is so clever). When the honey sellers saw him doing this simple test, they fled like he was a bear.
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Old 05-30-01, 07:12 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by mike
I couldn't believe there were so many bee keepers in one area. My friend told me they were mostly fakes. We stopped and he had some method of determining real honey from the adultrated stuff (my friend is so clever). When the honey sellers saw him doing this simple test, they fled like he was a bear.
I think that was the next thing coming up in T'ai Chi class, but I quit before I reached that stage.
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Old 05-31-01, 07:27 AM   #14
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Mike, I wasn't joking.. (But I can see where the idea seems ludicrous, I'm full of ludicrocity..)

the idea would bee (sorry for the pun) to grind it into close to powder form... Thus creating somewhat of an drinkable, home brewed power bar thing... I'm looking for something to eat about 1/2 hour before I ride home so that I don't sag at the (death defying, impossilby steep) hill at the end of my ride.

Energy bars typically contain:
Lactose/milk stuff - which tends to make me bog down or feel bogged down.
High Fructose corn syrup: which I avoid like the plague when I can.
A high price tag: Commute biking eliminates my bridge toll too, but my bridge toll is cheaper than the few bars I've found to meet my other taste.


And yes, I'd like the recipe to home made granola. I can get a good varity of granola from Trader Joe's, and it's pretty cheap compared to the supermarkettes.. But still, making my own would be kind of cool. Please email me it if you have a chance! Thanks!!.
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Old 05-31-01, 11:35 AM   #15
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I'll post some home-made granola recipes later. It is so easy, you will scream at the prices you have been paying for granola - no matter how cheap you thought it was wholesale.

Let's see, you were thinking of grinding up granola (mostly oatmeal), mixing it with honey and, I assume, water. And drinking it? That is grotesque. If you are the kind of guy who can drink raw eggs for the nutrition, then this may also be a concoction for you.

Try it, though, and tell us how it is. You are only a blender whirl away from knowing for sure.

Look up a couple recipes for modern man's version of pemican. The original stuff was made with tallow, dried beaver meat, and dried fruit. Leave out the beaver and tallow and you have dried fruit. Hmm, there must be some substitute for those two ingredients.
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Old 05-31-01, 12:55 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by William Karsten
... I'm looking for something to eat about 1/2 hour before I ride home so that I don't sag at the (death defying, impossilby steep) hill at the end of my ride.
Listen, William, I wasn't kidding (too much) about the orange juice concentrate. I mix some frozen o.j. in a 20 oz. Powerade bottle with ice-cold water that I keep buried in my stuff to keep it fairly cold (if you're sensitive to cold drinks on the bike, you can skip that part.) Especially on a hot day, before the final leg of my 14 - 16 mile trip home, I stop somewhere shady and drink it. The fructose is good, and the vitamin C helps rebuild muscles. I definitely believe in a "boost" on my commute home, since I don't
have a 100 horsepower engine to do the work--it really adds to the enjoyment for me, having the extra energy. And I also prefer stopping when it's hot, rather than drinking it on the bike, because when I stop, I pour out sweat and get nice and wet before starting again. Add that to the cool orange juice in my guts, and I'm gassed to go!
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Old 05-31-01, 04:19 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by mike

Let's see, you were thinking of grinding up granola (mostly oatmeal), mixing it with honey and, I assume, water. And drinking it? Try it, though, and tell us how it is. You are only a blender whirl away from knowing for sure.

1.59 for a pound of granola with ginger in it.

No water in the honey, just some granola. I don't try raw eggs.. but.. you know. I like lots of things.. I had live snakes in Thialand once... good, but a little gag factor as they fight thier way down the throat. I will try it Monday and let you know! Pretty much smash it down in to easily swallowed pieces, throw it in honey and off I go.

Pemican sounds pretty grotesque.
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Old 05-31-01, 05:06 PM   #18
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William Karsten:

Look at this lively thread you have started as a new poster to the forums! You must be a good conversationalist - the kind of person people like to invite to parties.

Anyway, I will attach a Granola recipe from the book "Supermarket Backpacker". Since these posts will only accept one attachment each, I will post two more after this one. A recipe for modern pemmican will be included.
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Old 05-31-01, 05:08 PM   #19
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Here is another granola recipe from the book "Supermarket Backpacker".

If cost is a factor, then skip the expensive ingredients like wheat germ and Grape Nut cereals. Just use oats if you want to save dough.
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Old 05-31-01, 05:12 PM   #20
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Last, but not least, here is the modern man's pemmican recipe. Again from the amazing book "Supermarket Backpacker" (did you go get a copy yet?)

By the way, William Karsten, I have been to Thailand many times myself. The live snake eating thing is a joke the natives play on the foreigners to see if they can get them to eat live snakes. They alway cook 'em first. Same with the fried grasshoppers. Whenever you see some foreigner eating this weird stuff, look around the corner and you will see a cluck of natives laughing hysterically.

Anyway, here is the recipe for an edible pemmican:
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Old 05-31-01, 05:27 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by William Karsten

Pemican sounds pretty grotesque.
A lot of us once thought Lycra was grotesque.
On the other hand, we don't usually eat Lycra.
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Old 05-31-01, 05:29 PM   #22
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I've tried all of them except the pemmican.

Badger, look at these recipes. Granola is as easy as making toast.

Do it, man.
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Old 06-01-01, 07:58 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by mike


I never thought of this kind of thing until I was traveling with my Chinese friend in northern China near the Great Wall. It was wall to wall bee keepers selling honey on the side of the road. I couldn't believe there were so many bee keepers in one area. My friend told me they were mostly fakes. We stopped and he had some method of determining real honey from the adultrated stuff (my friend is so clever). When the honey sellers saw him doing this simple test, they fled like he was a bear.
I can't believe this thread is as big as it is. It is probably my fault for being so enthusiastic about honey.

Anyway, I wrote to my Chinese friend and asked him to explain what was his method for testing the quality of honey. I think you will find that Mr. Yang is really a special person and as thorough as they come. This is what he wrote to me:

Mike,

This is a long story - how to tell if honey is pure ?

1>. What kind of flower the honey is from ?
Usually, in China, especially in Beijing, Beijing people like honey from
- jujube flower ( from jujube tree )
- scholar flower ( from Chinese scholar-tree or some people call it locust
tree )

Maybe, other people such as Southern Chinese like other honey from other
flower. I have no any idea about other honey .
So what I am talking with you is only about the experience from my honey
jujube flower honey or scholar-tree flower / locust-tree flower honey )

2>. What color the honey looks like ?
The color of scholar-tree flower / locust tree flower honey is lighter,
looks like snow ( or with a little bit of yellow )
The color of jujube flower honey is more darker than scholar-tree/ locust
tree flower honey ( sometimes, looks like brown )

3>. What smell the honey deliver ?
The smell from scholar-tree flower / locust tree flower honey is light and
gentle
The smell from jujube flower honey is stimulant or irritant

4>. What density the honey has ?
No matter what kind of honey is , as long as it is pure honey, it must be
with some certain density or sticking . That means if you use a spoon or
chopsticks to pick up some of honey from the honey bottle, and hold it and
move up , the honey should be drawn to form some long honey lines without
broken. That means the honey gives you a feeling like glue.

If the honey lines are broken immediately or broken within very short
distance, and form some small drops dropping down back to the bottle, that
means it is not pure honey, it must be mixed with some things such as water
or sugar water.

5>. What transparent bright level the honey is ?
Usually, pure honey is always transparent bright , no matter what color the
honey is. That means if you open the cover of honey bottle, the top
surface of the honey reflects light when you see it from certain side
direction with certain angle degree ( do not look down ). Or if you pick it
up by a bigger spoon, you can see the top surface of the honey is
transparent bright.

If it is mixed with water or sugar or sugar water, it looks not bright, not
transparent, without gloss or the gloss is lower.

6>. What catkin the honey has when it mixed with cold water ?
Take a big glass with cold water,, add some of honey to the glass, you will
see the honey become to some soft things like catkin ( or willow catkin - do
you see willow catkin in spring time when willow tree flower is
blooming ? ) .

If honey mixed with sugar, it will form less catkin as it mixes with cold
water.

7>. What taste the honey is ?
This question requests you remember what the taste of sugar is. Honey taste
is different from sugar, sugar taste is sugar taste, honey taste is honey
taste.

I do not know how to use human language to describe the taste difference
between sugar and honey, both of them are sweet .

Northern China Sugar is usually from beet ( sugar beet ), Southern China
Sugar is usually from sugarcane

8>. What air bubble will you see when it is heated with water ?
Usually, when pure honey is heated with water, you see some even air bubble
connecting each other and overturning at the glass bottom area because honey
is stick.

But some honey sellers add small quantity of honey and some eatable stick
material into more sugar water to make them looked like honey
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Old 06-01-01, 10:09 PM   #24
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I think I would like Mr. Yang a lot. Please thank him for me, for his observations about honey!

About the sweetness--I know what he means, but I don't have words for it either. I don't know Chinese, but I do know that English is very weak in words for tastes and smells. "Sweet" is about all we have, and yet anybody who has eaten anything beyond Gerber's baby food, knows there are many different "shades" of sweet.

Or try (since I know you like tea, Mike) describing the various varieties of tea in terms of taste! It can't be done!
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Old 06-03-01, 09:06 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by JonR

A lot of us once thought Lycra was grotesque.
On the other hand, we don't usually eat Lycra.
I've seen somethings in lycra that were pretty grotesque!

And well, as far as eating Lycra... well, I've munched a little, but hey.. beer makes a lot of things seem like good ideas at the time..
And the partner at the time thought it was cool..

(I didn't just say that.. did I?)
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