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  1. #1
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    Carbs and the Chronic Diseases of Aging

    In light of the recent discussions of carbs vs. protein here is an interesting article definately ahead of its time by Ron Rosedale, M.D. entitled "Insulin and its Metobolic Effects".He points out that we evolved primarily as fat burners not carb burners and that the current trend to excess carb consumption leads to insulin resistence which in turn is the root cause of the disease of aging of which chronic diseases as we know them are merely symptoms.He recommends a diet high in unsaturated fats however in a section geared towards atheletes does concede they can tolerate higher levels of carbs. Overall a very enlightening article on nutrition however it is long and thought provoking so I advise not trying to read it all in one setting. www.dfhi.com/interviews/rosedale.html

  2. #2
    Every lane is a bike lane Chris L's Avatar
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    For the last seven years or so, I have been deliberately eating excessive volumes of carbs. I must say I haven't got hairy palms or any other "symptoms" just yet, in fact, with only one illness of any description over the last four years, my overall health couldn't be better.
    "I am never going to flirt with idleness again" - Roy Keane
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  3. #3
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    I doubt you are eating excessive amounts of carbs given your lack of bodyfat.I would guess like me a fast metabolism and high activity level allows you to tolerate more carbs than others less athletic. I would exspect if you start noticing "swings" of energy after consuming sugar where you soon notice you have less energy than originally and become anxious craving more carbs then it is signaling a potential problem developing.But all this is just my take as was the statement you responded to so I suggest you read the article if you have time to get the authors take on all this as he is the expert.

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    Around now and then DnvrFox's Avatar
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    Hmmm . . .

    My step-dad is 93, eats carbs as much as he wants, and , except for using oxygen because he smoked until he was 65, is as healthy as an ox. He probably weighs about 140 lbs, as he has all of his life.

    My mom is 89, and as healthy as an ox, period, and also weighs the same as she always has, which is not a lot. She also eats the carbos she wants.

    Nope, no diabetes for either of them.

    iI really get suspicious of all the food theories and folks who have "the answer". A well-balanced diet of protein, veggies, fruit and carbs is to me the best answer - combined with exercise and good sleep.
    DnvrFox - still bicycling, swimming, walking and weight lifting at 74yo is participating a bit in BFN 50+.

  5. #5
    Wood Licker Maelstrom's Avatar
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    You don't have a family that is oriented towards getting diabetes. I am sure it isn't quite this generic but I bet you could find some similarities in body type to eating. I munch on carbs and go on a regular diet and my insulin goes up and my doc starts to worry about diabetes (everyone in my family has it...yep 100% of the living members). I have to eat a controlled carb diet. I bet if you found and asked a lot of endormorphic type members you will find they 'generally' can't consume lots of carbs or they suffer mood swings and insulin spikes...

    High metabolism = Slender people = carbs good
    low metabolism = bulkier people = carbs bad

    Of course that is being very generic and stereotypical but you get the idea. People who do intense workouts or ABSOLUTELY nothing at all could easily skew that ratio.

    Come on people we can't all be that blind. All of these diets work but for different people. A well balanced diet is different for everyone. I realize the health industry is going to be that blind because it would cost to much to educate and endorse multiple types of diets depending on personal physiology. However, We don't have to be so black and white about it.

  6. #6
    Around now and then DnvrFox's Avatar
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    You don't have a family that is oriented towards getting diabetes
    I am curious? Just how do you know my family? Do you live in
    San Diego?

    You are not correct. There is lots of diabetes in my relatives - aunts, uncles, etc.

    So, please do not make assumptions about things of which you have no knowledge.

    Thanks.
    DnvrFox - still bicycling, swimming, walking and weight lifting at 74yo is participating a bit in BFN 50+.

  7. #7
    Center of the Universe ngateguy's Avatar
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    I was going to stay out of this one since I am already embroiled in another on this subject but I come from a long line of diabetics (both sides of the family tree) and I eat a lot of carbs and exercise and try to do the balanced meal thing I am 46 years old no high blood pressure (also a family trait) no diabetes, just plain good health what can I say but read this . The Atkins diet self admittedly is only a temporary help you still have to change your dietary and exercise programs to insure a healthy life style. There is no known healthy quick fix all of them have drawbacks. Well I am off to eat a big bowl of the nasty carbs (pasta) topped with some home made sausage and pepper sauce.
    Matthew 6

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    I think you posted that link in the wrong thread as there was no mention of the Adkins diet and I can not really comment as I have never read Adkins though I am familiar with low carb diets generally.I was not intending to incense carb eaters as I eat carbs myself and will continue to after reading the article though I will certainly be careful how I use them.The article was more acurately pointing out a link between chronically high insulin levels and many diseases though I don't think hairy palms was mentioned(I think that comes from excess protein lol).It was also written towards a sedentary general population and in fact he tempered his reccomendations towards athletes particularly sprinters which many cylists qualify as.As diet and nutrition like so many other fields is evolving with much left to learn I myself think it is helpful to follow the latest developements rather than let my views become too engrained.

  9. #9
    Sir Crashalot Airborne's Avatar
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    Originally posted by DnvrFox
    Hmmm . . .

    My step-dad is 93, eats carbs as much as he wants, and , except for using oxygen because he smoked until he was 65, is as healthy as an ox.
    pretty stupid: "healthy as an ox"

    oxes do not need oxygen. smokers are not healthy, period. he is LUCKY.
    keep the rubber side down!

  10. #10
    Sir Crashalot Airborne's Avatar
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    recent news and TV coverage says Atkins works better! http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...atoday/4686774

    may not be the best diet, but it generates better results than low fat / restricted calorie diets.
    keep the rubber side down!

  11. #11
    Center of the Universe ngateguy's Avatar
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    http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...498#post155498

    And airborne you might want to pay paticular attention to the last link on that thread
    Matthew 6

  12. #12
    Center of the Universe ngateguy's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Airborne
    oxes do not need oxygen. smokers are not healthy, period. he is LUCKY.
    Um oxes do need oxygen . And ex- smokers can be healthy!

    Peace David
    ex-smoker and healthy
    Matthew 6

  13. #13
    Sir Crashalot Airborne's Avatar
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    Originally posted by ngateguy


    Um oxes do need oxygen . And ex- smokers can be healthy!

    Peace David
    ex-smoker and healthy
    O2 TANKS i mean, as you were refering to in your paragraph. the need for supplemental O2 means you are not healthy.
    keep the rubber side down!

  14. #14
    Around now and then DnvrFox's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Airborne


    pretty stupid: "healthy as an ox"

    oxes do not need oxygen. smokers are not healthy, period. he is LUCKY.
    Well, you certainly are a friendly kind of guy. It has been some time since I was called "pretty stupid." Now, I have been called "stupid" and "very stupid," but never "pretty" and "stupid" in the same phrase. A new low for me.

    Now, if you were to see me, I really doubt that you would call me "pretty" although, I realize, that everyone has their own tastes. As I am a male, it is even more difficult, I suppose, to call me "pretty." As to the "stupid" part, I guess it is in the eye of the beholder.

    Lets look at your response and add a few notes.

    1. He is NOT a smoker. I said in my note that he stopped at age 65 - 28 years ago. Did you somehow miss that? Hmm . . . "stupid" you called ME?? Incidentally, before 28 years ago - and prior to that - the health effects of smoking were NOT known to the general public, and smoking was QUITE common. But, you might be just a little young to know that.

    2. He is 93, independent, bright, gets around quite easily, looks about 20 years younger. Just the fact that he is 93 puts him in the top 1% or so of survivors. Yes, almost everyone else HAS ALREADY DIED vefore 93. Therefore, he is EXTREMELY healthy for his age simply by the very fact of survival.

    3. He and my mom lived totally independently until last year when they moved into a retirement community, where they are still independent but at times take meals with others.

    4. He is physically strong and active. No wheelchair, no walker, goes up and down stairs. Hey man (woman?), he is 93 - that is NINETY-THREE. Have you no concept of how MOST 93 year-olds are (if they are still alive)?

    Yes, of course, he is lucky. He did not get hit by a car. He did not get killed in World War II where he served. Anyone who makes it to 93 has to have a certain amount of luck.

    So, this is "pretty stupid" signing off. I will not respond to this further.
    Last edited by DnvrFox; 12-31-02 at 06:58 AM.
    DnvrFox - still bicycling, swimming, walking and weight lifting at 74yo is participating a bit in BFN 50+.

  15. #15
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    While its interesting to read all the uncontrolled case studies of one I suggest we limit any further discussion on this thread to comments on the actual article which I guess assumes you actually read it.I probably spiced the title and my comments on the article a little to generate interest which I guess was a mistake.As there are currently active threads on Atkins and opinions on what is a healthy diet I suggest that those subjects be discussed there.

  16. #16
    Around now and then DnvrFox's Avatar
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    Originally posted by RWTD
    I suggest we limit any further discussion on this thread to comments on the actual article

    I suggest that those subjects be discussed there.
    Well, I will certainly do as you mandate, SIR. (Did I miss something here about free and open discussion?) Any further suggestions for how I should live my life and what I should or should not write?

    Gosh, I sure need MORE advice. Don't know how I can make it through the day without your words of wisdom!!

    Thanks.
    DnvrFox - still bicycling, swimming, walking and weight lifting at 74yo is participating a bit in BFN 50+.

  17. #17
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    I though you said you were signing off.Sounds like you didn't get enough sleep or maybe its just too many carbs lol.

  18. #18
    Around now and then DnvrFox's Avatar
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    Originally posted by RWTD
    I though you said you were signing off.Sounds like you didn't get enough sleep or maybe its just too many carbs lol.
    Lots of good sleep. No carbs at all yet today.

    I just lie a lot!!
    DnvrFox - still bicycling, swimming, walking and weight lifting at 74yo is participating a bit in BFN 50+.

  19. #19
    Center of the Universe ngateguy's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Airborne


    O2 TANKS i mean, as you were refering to in your paragraph. the need for supplemental O2 means you are not healthy.
    That was just a poor atempt at humor past my bedtime
    Matthew 6

  20. #20
    Don't Believe the Hype RiPHRaPH's Avatar
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    it is important to note here that ALL of these diets are geared towards the sedentary person because that is who will be using these diets. people want to shed fat and many of these diets shed muscle mass or water only. sitting on a couch and sitting in an office all day long but 'using the stairs' instead of the elevator will not get it done.

    the equation hasn't and will never change. you need to burn off more than you take in.

    we burn off about 2000 calories just existing. add 500 or so for walking around means you have 2500 calories to eat to break even. anything over that is excess unless you BURN IT OFF!!

    it is impossible to short circuit this system.

    it doesn't matter where you get the calories from. if you eat bread before dinner (i stopped years ago) that is calories and carbs i don't need. you can eat fat, but fat isn't that filling long term and can casue you to overeat ultimately.,

    Can i afford this? like a checkbook, i can't write for money i don't have (i can't eat calories that i haven't or won't be able to burn)

    now that isn't so hard...right?

    Good Morning America has this thing now where they are taking 6 or so people and locking them up in a fitness house to lose weight.... the interviews are hilarious. 'i can't stop snacking' etc.
    I have enough words to get me into trouble, but not enough to get me out of trouble.

  21. #21
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    The article was pointing to the "danger of excess carbs"(note this is my term not the articles) in particular chronically elevated insulin levels and glycation (formation of Advanced Glycated End Products )rather than trying to promote a weight loss diet.In fact it only mentioned specific foods when asked in Q&A.He felt that while cell division eventually gets us all most succumb to the ravages of oxidation and glycation well before .As he said the media has focused our attention on oxidation in recent years he went into some detail on glycation which the public hasn't been made as aware of.As far as endurance athletes he said they should use more carbs before an event but felt they would do well to consume more fat and learn to use this as a fuel source in addition to relying to much on carbs. He said for sprinters all this really didn't apply as sugar is a "turbo charger"and more appropriate here.Getting off discussion of the article as far as your comment on fat not being filling LT it actually has more calories /gram than carbs or protein and in its natural unprocessed form does actually satiate the appetite quicker than carbs leading to less overeating.So while it is fairly obvious they need to consume less many find it easier to actually accomplish this by cutting carbs.

  22. #22
    Don't Believe the Hype RiPHRaPH's Avatar
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    your post is valid. i love the excerpts posted.
    I have enough words to get me into trouble, but not enough to get me out of trouble.

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