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  1. #1
    Ride it like you stole it WheresWaldo's Avatar
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    ?'s for Tom Stromcrowe, other bariatric surgery patients. Re "Dumping"

    Tom and others,

    I hit a milestone today 245#, 101# lighter than my all-time high. Here is my question/situation. On rides of about 40 miles or less, I am having no problems staying hydrated or fed, usually a PowerBar fruit and nut bar, or a Powerbar gel. Today I went on a 75 mile ride with a lot of climbing, ran out of water with about 5 miles to get home, had been conserving for 5 miles previous to that. Ate a Powerbar and two gel packs for my 5 hour trip. Problem was when I got home I "Dumped" everything, adding to my already dehydrated state, felt light headed and immediately fell to the floor upon arriving home.

    I am thinking there just was too much sugar in the gel, or perhaps I had one too many. I am curious what you are doing post surgery to stay fed during your longer rides? Any suggestions will be taken as that, just suggestions. I am seeing my GP tomorrow, first appointment in four months, she will be amazed. I will also ask her what she thinks.

    If I can't do the gels, I am thinking I may have to scrap my plans for a century in September.
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    Senior Member zimbo's Avatar
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    Why not bring along real food or at least something that agrees with your stomach? I can't stand power bars or gels so I eat peanut butter crackers, granola bars, rice crispy treats, candy, etc.

    Also, "conserving" water doesn't work. Running out of water is bad news and may have been the cause of your problem.

    --Steve

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by WheresWaldo
    Tom and others,

    I hit a milestone today 245#, 101# lighter than my all-time high. Here is my question/situation. On rides of about 40 miles or less, I am having no problems staying hydrated or fed, usually a PowerBar fruit and nut bar, or a Powerbar gel. Today I went on a 75 mile ride with a lot of climbing, ran out of water with about 5 miles to get home, had been conserving for 5 miles previous to that. Ate a Powerbar and two gel packs for my 5 hour trip. Problem was when I got home I "Dumped" everything, adding to my already dehydrated state, felt light headed and immediately fell to the floor upon arriving home.

    I am thinking there just was too much sugar in the gel, or perhaps I had one too many. I am curious what you are doing post surgery to stay fed during your longer rides? Any suggestions will be taken as that, just suggestions. I am seeing my GP tomorrow, first appointment in four months, she will be amazed. I will also ask her what she thinks.

    If I can't do the gels, I am thinking I may have to scrap my plans for a century in September.
    Doesnt sound good, falling to the floor is the obvious sign. How many water bottles did you bring? Obviously the weather matters, but two should do it on a 40 miler. Also, just as important as drinking during the ride, you need to make sure you are going INTO the ride hydrated. A few nights before you need to be drinking lots of water and getting hydrated, no alcohol, quality food, etc. In my experience, the two days before the ride are just as important as ride.

    I have had great luck with the Hammer product 'HEED', its a powder you mid with water, weak tasting, but works wonders on energy levels. Good luck-

  4. #4
    You need a new bike supcom's Avatar
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    Instead of running out of water, think ahead and stop at a convenience store. Plan your rides so there are resupply points along the way. Summer is a bad time to be dehydrated.

  5. #5
    Ride it like you stole it WheresWaldo's Avatar
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    Some clarification, ride was supposed to be only 60 miles, but a wrong turn resultrd in 75. I drank 4 large bottles, but apparently it wasn't enough. Problem was last five miles include no stores and by then I was already dehydrated.

    Now I can't get hydrated. I have only had water all day and it just isn't working. Now I am not sure it's the gel. Doctor says I definately look dehydrated and he thinks I am surrering from heat stroke.
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    Killing Rabbits
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    4 bottles of water or sport drink? Your problem was not from the gel, it was from too few gels. A bar and 2 gels is only about 400kcal, not nearly enough for 75miles. You want about 250kcal/hour, so on your 5 hour ride so you are looking at 1250kcals... a big difference from your mere 400 or so. The bars/gels/sport drinks also provide the electrolytes you need to become really hydrated. Now if those 4 bottles were sport drink you would have picked up another 750 – 1000kcal from the drinks; putting you right into the caloric sweet spot.

    Don’t worry about eating more mid-ride preventing the weight loss you want. You will burn way more than the 250kcal/h you are eating (closer to 600kcal/hour).

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    You need a new bike supcom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WheresWaldo
    Some clarification, ride was supposed to be only 60 miles, but a wrong turn resultrd in 75. I drank 4 large bottles, but apparently it wasn't enough. Problem was last five miles include no stores and by then I was already dehydrated.

    Now I can't get hydrated. I have only had water all day and it just isn't working. Now I am not sure it's the gel. Doctor says I definately look dehydrated and he thinks I am surrering from heat stroke.
    Did your doctor suggest an IV to get some fluid into your system? Heatstroke is a serious illness and not something to be taken lightly. If you find yourself in this sutuation again, don't be afraid to knock on someone's door or just use someone's outside faucet if nobody's at home. Heatstroke will kill you.

    You might also consider using a hydration pack so you have more water in reserve. For long unsupported rides, a couple bottles just might not be enough for summer riding.

    I ride a lot in Texas summer heat and regularly do century+ rides. I ride with a hydration pack because it's often 20-30 miles between stops. The hydration pack, in addition to storing more than a couple bottles, will keep water cold longer - an added bonus.

  8. #8
    Ride it like you stole it WheresWaldo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enthalpic
    4 bottles of water or sport drink? Your problem was not from the gel, it was from too few gels. A bar and 2 gels is only about 400kcal, not nearly enough for 75miles. You want about 250kcal/hour, so on your 5 hour ride so you are looking at 1250kcals... a big difference from your mere 400 or so. The bars/gels/sport drinks also provide the electrolytes you need to become really hydrated. Now if those 4 bottles were sport drink you would have picked up another 750 – 1000kcal from the drinks; putting you right into the caloric sweet spot.

    Don’t worry about eating more mid-ride preventing the weight loss you want. You will burn way more than the 250kcal/h you are eating (closer to 600kcal/hour).
    Yes it was just water, not sport drink. I think I am going to change my caloric intact as you suggest. I will also now start using my Camelback on any of these long rides.
    "Never use your face as a brake pad" - Jake Watson
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    Note also that a good sport drink with a mix of sugars will be absorbed more quickly than plain water.
    Eric

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  10. #10
    Ride it like you stole it WheresWaldo's Avatar
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    Latest update;

    Had to go to the hospital last night, severe muscle pain and sensation of thirst. They gave me two units of fluids, something for the gastric distress, a mild sedative, and some pain medication. I went home four hours later. Today the thrist sensation was finally gone, and the muscle pain had eased, but I still needed Motrin several times today. Tomorrow I see my GP. I think things are on the mend, and I have learned some valuable lessons.
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  11. #11
    Ain't Easy Being Cheesy CheeseLouise's Avatar
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    Hi Waldo,

    First off, fellow WLS patient here. I had surgery on June 30th. I am not sure how far out you are but I would NOT look at using sugar, gell packs or any of the such. There are plenty of other sources of enrgy. I always carry with some south beach cereal bars, low sugar, low carb, but still fuel for an empty tank. Peanut butter is also good but make sure you are getting the natural kind. Brands like Skippy are all fat and have no nutritional value. Most of all remember to get in those proteins ahead of time and to make srue you are well hydrated ahead of time. I always get in my 64 oz of water a day plus whatever I consume on a ride. I am only 2.5 weeks outr from surgery and have no problem getting in the fluids.

    Example, yesterday it was 98 degerees and the dew point was 72. It was HOT and VERY HUMID. I did 25.5 miles at an average speed of 16.6 mph. I consumed two 24 oz bottles of water. Prior to the ride I had consumed 48 oz of fliud plus an 8 oz protein drink. I lost 2 lbs on the ride and was abel to drink another 24 oz of water after the ride over the next few hours. I ended up putting one pound back on. Never thought I would be glad to gain a pound but I know the 2 lbs I lost were water weight and I needed to be hydrated. All totoal I had consumed 104 oz of liquid and it wasn't even dinner time yet.

    The Camelbak is a good idea as well.

    Good luck!
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  12. #12
    Senior Member kf5nd's Avatar
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    How can low carb bars be "fuel for an empty tank" ?

    Skippy peanut butter is full of sugar and trans-fats; natural peanut butter is not (salt and peanuts ground up)... but all peanut butter is full of fat. Any nut butter is high fat, by definition. Hint... the word "butter" is the tip-off.




    Quote Originally Posted by HILL SLUG
    Hi Waldo,

    First off, fellow WLS patient here. I had surgery on June 30th. I am not sure how far out you are but I would NOT look at using sugar, gell packs or any of the such. There are plenty of other sources of enrgy. I always carry with some south beach cereal bars, low sugar, low carb, but still fuel for an empty tank. Peanut butter is also good but make sure you are getting the natural kind. Brands like Skippy are all fat and have no nutritional value. Most of all remember to get in those proteins ahead of time and to make srue you are well hydrated ahead of time. I always get in my 64 oz of water a day plus whatever I consume on a ride. I am only 2.5 weeks outr from surgery and have no problem getting in the fluids.

    Example, yesterday it was 98 degerees and the dew point was 72. It was HOT and VERY HUMID. I did 25.5 miles at an average speed of 16.6 mph. I consumed two 24 oz bottles of water. Prior to the ride I had consumed 48 oz of fliud plus an 8 oz protein drink. I lost 2 lbs on the ride and was abel to drink another 24 oz of water after the ride over the next few hours. I ended up putting one pound back on. Never thought I would be glad to gain a pound but I know the 2 lbs I lost were water weight and I needed to be hydrated. All totoal I had consumed 104 oz of liquid and it wasn't even dinner time yet.

    The Camelbak is a good idea as well.

    Good luck!

  13. #13
    Ain't Easy Being Cheesy CheeseLouise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kf5nd
    How can low carb bars be "fuel for an empty tank" ?

    Skippy peanut butter is full of sugar and trans-fats; natural peanut butter is not (salt and peanuts ground up)... but all peanut butter is full of fat. Any nut butter is high fat, by definition. Hint... the word "butter" is the tip-off.

    Carbs are greatly misunderstood. People who ride their bikes on recreational basis (not a pro level) Do NOT need to carb-load. Protein is your best fuel for the muscles and to burn fat. For a person who has had gastric bypass surgery, most can not tolerate the carbs and since we have rearranged digestion we do not process sugars/carbs and they literally "dump" right through us. Dumping is VERY nasty, you get low blood sugars, barf, feel shakey and dizzey. THis is due to the fact that the first part of our intestine that absorbs sugars, carbs, fat etc..is bypassed, thus "Gastric Bypass"

    Ummm trans-fats are bad for you. Natural fats that are found in nuts are actually good for you! Ask a nutritionoist. I see one on a regular basis. I can eat natural peanut butter no problem, give me a scoop of skippy and I am barfing and sick! Wonder why? Could it be all the bad for you trans-fats in it? Read the labels and the nutritional values. Do you work for Skippy?
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  14. #14
    Killing Rabbits
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    Fat and protein only on a 75mile ride will not work. Just because it works for you on short (25mile) rides at a slow pace does not mean it will work for his long rides. Having your gut cut up doesn't make your body stop using glycogen as a fuel source and therefore not need carbs. If you really can’t absorb it then accept that you traded off long endurance cycling for having the surgery.

    Peanut butter is not such a great food. Sure the type of fat in it is ok but it really is only fat. The protein in peanuts has a crappy amino acid profile (low in essentials) and is of little use nutritionally.

  15. #15
    Ain't Easy Being Cheesy CheeseLouise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enthalpic
    Fat and protein only on a 75mile ride will not work. Just because it works for you on short (25mile) rides at a slow pace does not mean it will work for his long rides. Having your gut cut up doesn't make your body stop using glycogen as a fuel source and therefore not need carbs. If you really can’t absorb it then accept that you traded off long endurance cycling for having the surgery.

    Peanut butter is not such a great food. Sure the type of fat in it is ok but it really is only fat. The protein in peanuts has a crappy amino acid profile (low in essentials) and is of little use nutritionally.

    Okay...Not in this for a flame war or to address others ingnorance. FYI I ride many different rides and I don't think that 16-17 mph is a SLOW pace over a 25-30 mile ride for a 42 year old female recreational rider that currently weigs 215 lbs. Opinions are like A$$holes and everyone is entitled to theirs. So you have yours. I have not traded off endurance cycyling for surgery. In fact I am looking at participating in RAAM next year as part of a baritric team. Please do not judge unless you know what it is you are judging. Please inform yourself. Carbs are not the only source of fuel for the body.

    Rolls her eyes at the lack of informed people with opinions in this world.

    Conversation over!
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    Killing Rabbits
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    My a-hole goes faster and longer on carbs. Hmm wonder why all the sport products are all carbs? Maybe we have science on our side? I will let you do what you want nutritionally... surely a path I don't want to follow.


  17. #17
    Got Bent? themickeyd's Avatar
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    Little plumbing changes make life different.

    Quote Originally Posted by Enthalpic
    My a-hole goes faster and longer on carbs.
    Ah, but is the tube between your a-hole and mouth been modified like Hill Slug and WheresWaldo? Patients who have had most types of Gastric By Pass can be fall victom to the dreaded "Dumping Syndrome" when they intake too much sugar. Dumping can be very nasty effects on the person including severe sweating all the way to severe tachycardia and palpitations. It's not something most want to go through, so modifications on diet is required. So what may work in a person with a "stock" digestive system can be hard on some one that has been modified.

    Ron
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  18. #18
    Get A Life - Get A Bike cheeseflavor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enthalpic
    Maybe we have science on our side?
    No more so than anyone else who claimed to know better throughout history. In one way or another, they all laid claim to knowing better, having science on their side, etc. Low carb diets, vegitarian diets, high fiber diets, liquid diets, this science, that science, alcohol evil, alcohol good.



    Steve

  19. #19
    The Site Administrator: Currently at home recovering from a couple of strokes,please contact my assistnt admins for forum issues Tom Stormcrowe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WheresWaldo
    Tom and others,

    I hit a milestone today 245#, 101# lighter than my all-time high. Here is my question/situation. On rides of about 40 miles or less, I am having no problems staying hydrated or fed, usually a PowerBar fruit and nut bar, or a Powerbar gel. Today I went on a 75 mile ride with a lot of climbing, ran out of water with about 5 miles to get home, had been conserving for 5 miles previous to that. Ate a Powerbar and two gel packs for my 5 hour trip. Problem was when I got home I "Dumped" everything, adding to my already dehydrated state, felt light headed and immediately fell to the floor upon arriving home.

    I am thinking there just was too much sugar in the gel, or perhaps I had one too many. I am curious what you are doing post surgery to stay fed during your longer rides? Any suggestions will be taken as that, just suggestions. I am seeing my GP tomorrow, first appointment in four months, she will be amazed. I will also ask her what she thinks.

    If I can't do the gels, I am thinking I may have to scrap my plans for a century in September.
    Hmmm, good question, Waldo..
    Try diluting the gels in a water bottle to spread the intake out so you CAN metabolize them. Natural PB and a bit of ******* can also help. I've also found I can tolerate fueling up with Maltodextrin based energy food, and carry BD Glucose tabs if I really verge on a "bonk". They can be absorbed sublingually (under the tongue) to get some immediate blood sugar increase. You'll need to play around with the mix and definately consult with your dietitian to get advice on this issue. I've been using Twin Labs prebottled Ultrafuel sports drink diluted by 50% with no ill effects, it's worth a try! The protein and fat intake can be added with Whey protein or soy, both of which I have had decent results. Try to keep the intake in small regular amounts (Constantly sipping every few minutes, alternating btwn clear water and recovery fuel drink). Nibble that Clif bar slowly, to limit the amount you have to process as well! That should help you avoid "Dumping Syndrome". Power Bar brand HAS given me problems, as well, by the way, too much Fructose (Corn Sweetener!)
    on light duty due to illness; please contact my assistants for forum issues. They are Siu Blue Wind, or CbadRider or the other 3 star folk. I am currently at home recovering from a couple of strokes. I am making good progress, happily.


    . “He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.”- Fredrick Nietzsche

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  20. #20
    The Site Administrator: Currently at home recovering from a couple of strokes,please contact my assistnt admins for forum issues Tom Stormcrowe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kf5nd
    How can low carb bars be "fuel for an empty tank" ?

    Skippy peanut butter is full of sugar and trans-fats; natural peanut butter is not (salt and peanuts ground up)... but all peanut butter is full of fat. Any nut butter is high fat, by definition. Hint... the word "butter" is the tip-off.
    Protein/fat metabolism provides 5X the energy of glucose metabolism. The only reason you need to replenish glucose/glycogen is for the burst of energy or for cognition. I may be being clear as mud here, but after bariatric surgery, you have to walk a fine line between taking in enough carbs to prevent a bonk and taking in too many and you experience Dumping Syndrome. As time goes on, you do redevelop receptor sites for the sugars, the body is a marvelous thing! Early in though, you do have to be extremely careful about sugars. Other than that, you are only really needing to take in enough sugars in a form easily metabolizable to provide glucose for the brain, which can only metabolize glucose. Beware of too much Peanut Butter as well, though, as it can cause a temporary blockage of the outlet of your pouch by forming a lump of peanut butter! This is extremely painful! I know, I've done it! Good carb source preride is Oatmeal or Cream of Wheat, by the way, and Diabetic recipe Oatmeal Cookies are a good source of energy, as well! Chewy Granola, as long as it uses brown rice syrup or Maltodextrin as the carb agent are also good if your GI tract can tolerate them yet!
    on light duty due to illness; please contact my assistants for forum issues. They are Siu Blue Wind, or CbadRider or the other 3 star folk. I am currently at home recovering from a couple of strokes. I am making good progress, happily.


    . “He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.”- Fredrick Nietzsche

    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." - Immanuel Kant

  21. #21
    The Site Administrator: Currently at home recovering from a couple of strokes,please contact my assistnt admins for forum issues Tom Stormcrowe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by supcom
    Did your doctor suggest an IV to get some fluid into your system? Heatstroke is a serious illness and not something to be taken lightly. If you find yourself in this sutuation again, don't be afraid to knock on someone's door or just use someone's outside faucet if nobody's at home. Heatstroke will kill you.

    You might also consider using a hydration pack so you have more water in reserve. For long unsupported rides, a couple bottles just might not be enough for summer riding.

    I ride a lot in Texas summer heat and regularly do century+ rides. I ride with a hydration pack because it's often 20-30 miles between stops. The hydration pack, in addition to storing more than a couple bottles, will keep water cold longer - an added bonus.
    I also carry a lot of fluid by most peoples definition. I have three cages as well as a hydration pack, allowing me to carry 4 liters of water on a long ride, and I keep the third bottle for electrolyte recovery fluid as well. I'm not shy about asking people for a top off if I need it either!
    on light duty due to illness; please contact my assistants for forum issues. They are Siu Blue Wind, or CbadRider or the other 3 star folk. I am currently at home recovering from a couple of strokes. I am making good progress, happily.


    . “He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.”- Fredrick Nietzsche

    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." - Immanuel Kant

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