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Old 07-29-06, 09:01 AM   #1
bfloyd
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Aerobic HR training

I have been training in my aerobic hr range of approx. 65% of max hr. Will my cycling still improve while training in just this range? (i.e. will I be able to push a harder gear while still maintaining the same aerobic hr?) Thanks.
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Old 07-29-06, 09:12 AM   #2
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Yes, and no. 65% is generally regarded as the recovery zone. Yes, if you're just starting, no if you can comfortably sustain day after day, miles and miles at a time, week after week. I'd say that if you can ride 2 hours or so at 65% 6 days a week without fatigue then it's time to move on. In general, for aerobic improvement, you should be exercising at 60% VO2max, or 75% MHR. For most people who aren't into structuring their training, 75% is the HR at which we workout day after day, but it's really too hard. I've done it and I can't keep it up for three days straight.

Anyway there are many systems of training out there. Some base training on MHR, some on LT, some on aerobic base. In general, all of them mix in threshold training, (around LT or just under) intervals above LT, and a lot of recovery in between.

For me, I just use two numbers. My LT and my recovery zone using the Maffetone method. I do one hard workout a week. That's all my 38 year old body can take.
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Old 07-29-06, 12:26 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by kuan
Yes, and no. 65% is generally regarded as the recovery zone. Yes, if you're just starting, no if you can comfortably sustain day after day, miles and miles at a time, week after week. I'd say that if you can ride 2 hours or so at 65% 6 days a week without fatigue then it's time to move on. In general, for aerobic improvement, you should be exercising at 60% VO2max, or 75% MHR. For most people who aren't into structuring their training, 75% is the HR at which we workout day after day, but it's really too hard. I've done it and I can't keep it up for three days straight.

Anyway there are many systems of training out there. Some base training on MHR, some on LT, some on aerobic base. In general, all of them mix in threshold training, (around LT or just under) intervals above LT, and a lot of recovery in between.

For me, I just use two numbers. My LT and my recovery zone using the Maffetone method. I do one hard workout a week. That's all my 38 year old body can take.
Thanks for the reply kuan. Sorry, I got my percentage calculation wrong (I should've used a calculator). Yes, I do train for my aerobic intensity at approx. 70 ~ 75% of MHR. My MHR is 185 (though I once seen 187 after a trecherous, gut wrenching climb) and I usually aim between 145 ~ 155 for aerobic training. I usually do three days a week at this level of about an hour each ride. Because of my weekly life schedule, this is all I will ride for that week. I alternate this week with a more intense week of hill climbs one day (to act as my sprint day), one day of noodling at about 120 hr, and one day of aerobic the same as the week before. My 40 year old knees don't like much of the hill climbs which is why I have them down to once every other week with hopes that I will be able to do more in the future. Any comments? Thanks.
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Old 07-29-06, 02:32 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by bfloyd
Yes, I do train for my aerobic intensity at approx. 70 ~ 75% of MHR...I usually do three days a week at this level of about an hour each ride.
So you're getting 3 hours of Level 2 (endurance) training per week. If that's all the time you have to train, you can raise the level of effort without running the risk of overtraining.

Aerobic training effect is a function of exertion level and time, with fatigue being the limiting factor that prevents addtional training. You can train easy for many hours, hard for few hours, or somewhere in between. Since you only have 3 hours to train, your limit is time.

The attached chart demonstrates this training principle. The harder you ride, the greater the training effect, but the greater the exertion/fatigue/need for recovery. (Edit: chart produced by Andy Coggan)

My advice: since you have only 3 hours per week to train, ride hard.
Attached Images
File Type: gif Coggan-sweet spot chart.gif (21.5 KB, 61 views)
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Last edited by terrymorse; 07-29-06 at 10:34 PM.
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Old 07-29-06, 03:02 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by bfloyd
My MHR is 185 (though I once seen 187 after a trecherous, gut wrenching climb)

The your MHR isn't 185

-D
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Old 07-29-06, 03:58 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by derath
The your MHR isn't 185

-D

I was rounding off . . .
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Old 07-29-06, 04:00 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terrymorse
So you're getting 3 hours of Level 2 (endurance) training per week. If that's all the time you have to train, you can raise the level of effort without running the risk of overtraining.

Aerobic training effect is a function of exertion level and time, with fatigue being the limiting factor that prevents addtional training. You can train easy for many hours, hard for few hours, or somewhere in between. Since you only have 3 hours to train, your limit is time.

The attached chart demonstrates this training principle. The harder you ride, the greater the training effect, but the greater the exertion/fatigue/need for recovery.

My advice: since you have only 3 hours per week to train, ride hard.
I did try the hard three day but I didn't seem to have enough recovery time. My knees didn't like it much at all. I believe that I still need more base training and endurance training before laying on more multiple intense workouts.
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Old 07-29-06, 05:44 PM   #8
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May I ask why you only have three hours? That seems like a lot of stress to me, trying to get three hours in a week. The rest of your week must be hellish!

You're 40, I'm 38. I can't do more than one seriously hard workout a week. I can't do more than 30 minutes at any kind of intensity above my LT. It takes me 2+ days to recover. Both of these days can't be anything more real easy riding or running, around 136-140 HR. I workout about 6 times a week though. The harder workouts consist of one distance workout of 1.5-3 hours starting at around 70% and ending at 80%, and one interval workout. I'm just starting out on intervals right now, so the total work at the moment is around 10 minutes. I started with a HRM last year with a RHR of 59. My RHR is now 46, my MHR is 183. Let that be your kinda-sorta guide. What to do what do do?

Edit: I don't want this to be about me. I can only give advice based on experience and can't really quote any studies and stuff. To date I haven't done much interval training. Start with one session every 10 days and work up. Keep the hard work minutes low. You don't need to do that much. I think the cardio adapts real quick.
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Old 07-29-06, 05:50 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terrymorse
The attached chart demonstrates this training principle. The harder you ride, the greater the training effect, but the greater the exertion/fatigue/need for recovery.
The important conclusion in the article accompanying that chart here, http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/defaul...lstory&id=3232 (it's not nice to use other people's work without giving them credit) is that there is a point of diminishing return where the increased training intensity causes a reduction in total training volume so the training effect (improvement is less than training at a lower intensity and higher volume. This assumes the rider is not time limited and can train at the maximum volume her body can withstand.
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Old 07-29-06, 09:38 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bfloyd
Thanks for the reply kuan. Sorry, I got my percentage calculation wrong (I should've used a calculator). Yes, I do train for my aerobic intensity at approx. 70 ~ 75% of MHR. My MHR is 185 (though I once seen 187 after a trecherous, gut wrenching climb) and I usually aim between 145 ~ 155 for aerobic training. I usually do three days a week at this level of about an hour each ride. Because of my weekly life schedule, this is all I will ride for that week. I alternate this week with a more intense week of hill climbs one day (to act as my sprint day), one day of noodling at about 120 hr, and one day of aerobic the same as the week before. My 40 year old knees don't like much of the hill climbs which is why I have them down to once every other week with hopes that I will be able to do more in the future. Any comments? Thanks.
I agree with the others that 3 hours/week is pretty low.

You will see aerobic gains at 70-75% of MHR (though it would be better to compare this to your LT instead of maximum). You won't see max speed gains.

If you are having trouble with your knees, there could be a few causes:

1) Your bike fit needs work
2) You are pushing to hard and/or using too low of a cadence.

My bet is on the second one. Your knees shouldn't be hurting after an hour of high-intensity work.

I think that an hour of hard work may be too much. You'll see better gains with intervals that are shorter in duration.

You might also pick up a copy of "the ultimate ride", do the field test, and go from that.
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Old 07-29-06, 10:35 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by asgelle
The important conclusion in the article accompanying that chart here, http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/defaul...lstory&id=3232 (it's not nice to use other people's work without giving them credit)
I didn't know about that article. I got the chart from Andy Coggan, who produced it in Excel.
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Old 08-08-06, 08:35 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by kuan
May I ask why you only have three hours? That seems like a lot of stress to me, trying to get three hours in a week. The rest of your week must be hellish!

You're 40, I'm 38. I can't do more than one seriously hard workout a week. I can't do more than 30 minutes at any kind of intensity above my LT. It takes me 2+ days to recover. Both of these days can't be anything more real easy riding or running, around 136-140 HR. I workout about 6 times a week though. The harder workouts consist of one distance workout of 1.5-3 hours starting at around 70% and ending at 80%, and one interval workout. I'm just starting out on intervals right now, so the total work at the moment is around 10 minutes. I started with a HRM last year with a RHR of 59. My RHR is now 46, my MHR is 183. Let that be your kinda-sorta guide. What to do what do do?

Edit: I don't want this to be about me. I can only give advice based on experience and can't really quote any studies and stuff. To date I haven't done much interval training. Start with one session every 10 days and work up. Keep the hard work minutes low. You don't need to do that much. I think the cardio adapts real quick.
I do wish to ride more than three hours a week but with shufling between the needs of six children, a wife, and a demanding job (I just returned from a week out of the country but was lucky enough to bring my bike this time), three hours is all I have for the week. I am moreso training for individual fitness but I also love the feel of speed. I may wish to do some local time trials here in the near future as well but only for pesonal bests.
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