Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Results 1 to 14 of 14
  1. #1
    Senior Member Max Viotu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    55
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Not enough fat in diet?

    Ok...I'm 51, and I think I have the race training thing down. BUT, I'm into my first year of racing, and I still can't seem to get a handle on recovery. I'm not seeing improvement in my time for the hill climb that I always judge myself by, even though I've been working my tail off, and trying to recover in between my hard training days with either slow 45 minute rides, or days completely off the bike. Improvements in the races have been in baby steps.

    I go out of my way to avoid fat in my diet. I eat mostly whole grain bread and oatmeal, fruits, turkey breast, non-fat milk, pasta w/ tomato sauce, salads (w/ oil-based dressing), and the fake egg stuff from Costco. This, of course, with the intent of weight management. (5'9, 147 lbs).

    Am I getting enough fat, or is the lack of it in my diet perhaps affecting my performance on the bike?

    Max
    "Some people see the glass half full. Others see it half empty.
    I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be."
    George Carlin

  2. #2
    '05 NUEser EJ123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    3,374
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Well you should have Omega fat in your diet, but im not sure about performance.

  3. #3
    Newbie
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    4
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Here are some random articles and studies that might be interesting to you:

    A Perspective on Fat Intake in Athletes
    http://www.jacn.org/cgi/content/full/19/3/345

    Eggs, hen
    http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?t...dspice&dbid=92

    Carotenoid bioavailability is higher from salads ingested with full-fat than with fat-reduced salad dressings as measured with electrochemical detection
    http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/80/2/396

    Saturated fats: what dietary intake?
    http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/80/3/550

    Low-Fat Dietary Pattern and Risk of Cardiovascular Disease
    http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/295/6/655

    Dietary fat intake and early mortality patterns--data from The Malmo Diet and Cancer Study.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract

    Animal Protein, Animal Fat, and Cholesterol Intakes and Risk of Cerebral Infarction Mortality in the Adult Health Study
    http://stroke.ahajournals.org/cgi/co...full/35/7/1531

  4. #4
    Wheee LilSprocket's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    S. FL
    My Bikes
    Schwinn Rocket 88 phase 1/ Surly 1x1/Cannondale R700 WSD 650c
    Posts
    378
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by MERTON
    fat is good for you... it's the amount that can be bad...
    Types of fat is really more the concern...
    Fats from french fries and burgers is not good for you...
    fats from nuts, avocados, olive oil... those are good for you...
    If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning.
    http://www.myspace.com/qwtrailbuilders
    rip sydney

  5. #5
    Code Warrior mwrobe1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    South suburbs of Chicago, Illinois
    My Bikes
    Schwinn MTB/Raleigh Marathon
    Posts
    620
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Max Viotu
    Ok...I'm 51, and I think I have the race training thing down. BUT, I'm into my first year of racing, and I still can't seem to get a handle on recovery. I'm not seeing improvement in my time for the hill climb that I always judge myself by, even though I've been working my tail off, and trying to recover in between my hard training days with either slow 45 minute rides, or days completely off the bike. Improvements in the races have been in baby steps.

    I go out of my way to avoid fat in my diet. I eat mostly whole grain bread and oatmeal, fruits, turkey breast, non-fat milk, pasta w/ tomato sauce, salads (w/ oil-based dressing), and the fake egg stuff from Costco. This, of course, with the intent of weight management. (5'9, 147 lbs).

    Am I getting enough fat, or is the lack of it in my diet perhaps affecting my performance on the bike?

    Max
    IMHO...no and yes.

    Where is the protein coming form in your diet? Its not fat that keeps people fat...its high concentrations of breads, pasta, sugars, and other high-carb-empty calorie foods that get people fat. I also don't subscribe to the whole "I have to carb-up!" before exercising either...I believe (through personal experience) that "proteining-up" is a much better choice.

    Cut out the whole grain bread, oatmeal, milk, pasta and fake egg stuff. Add some more lean meats to your diet...(fish, chicken, leaner cuts of beef, but the fatty cuts once in a while are probably fine for your level of exercise)...eat REAL eggs...they are the perfect food, those fake eggs are crap IMHO. Oh and avoid anything with sugar or high-fructose corn syrup (poison) like the plague.

    My $0.02 for what ts worth.
    Last edited by mwrobe1; 08-14-06 at 01:46 PM.
    Elwood: It's 106 miles to Chicago, we got a full tank of gas, 1/2 a pack of cigarettes, it's dark and we're wearing sunglasses.

    Jake: Hit it.



  6. #6
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    6
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by mwrobe1
    IMHO...no and yes.

    Where is the protein coming form in your diet? Its not fat that keeps people fat...its high concentrations of breads, pasta, sugars, and other high-carb-empty calorie foods that get people fat. I also don't subscribe to the whole "I have to carb-up!" before exercising either...I believe (through personal experience) that "proteining-up" is a much better choice.

    Cut out the whole grain bread, oatmeal, milk, pasta and fake egg stuff. Add some more lean meats to your diet...(fish, chicken, leaner cuts of beef, but the fatty cuts once in a while are probably fine for your level of exercise)...eat REAL eggs...they are the perfect food, those fake eggs are crap IMHO. Oh and avoid anything with sugar or high-fructose corn syrup (poison) like the plague.

    My $0.02 for what ts worth.
    Wow. This is horrible advice. Eating more meat will just increase the risk of heart disease and cancer, which I'm sure he doesn't need at age 50+.

    Fat is absorbed by the body much more quickly than protein or carbs, thus it's more likely to be stored on the body than those other macronutrients. An excess of fat will turn to body fat much more quickly than an excess of protein or carbs. Eating too much sugar is bad, but carbs in general don't deserved to be villified. Eating whole grain bread and oatmeal in moderation is a great way to get the carbs you need for sustained exercise, plus they have fiber which helps your intestinal tract. If you feel the need to get more protein in your diet, eat it in low-calorie ways, like broccoli and spinach...the calories you get from those foods are quite high in protein (though very low in calories overall) and they have lots of vitamins.

    The body does need some fat, so make sure you are getting the important ones: Omega 3 (especially) and Omega 6 fatty acids. Fish oils are particularly high in this area, but you can get them from things like flax seed oil (a great way to do this is use it on salads) and walnuts and several other seeds. You may find you do better with more fat in your diet, but try to get it from plant sources to avoid raising your cholesterol too. That said, I'm not sure why you'd want to eat fake eggs...I think it'd be better to eat the real thing in moderation.

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Portland, OR
    My Bikes
    1982 Trek 950, 1972 Peugeot PX10, Santa Cruz Chameleon
    Posts
    288
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    [QUOTE=Marisa]Wow. This is horrible advice. Eating more meat will just increase the risk of heart disease and cancer, which I'm sure he doesn't need at age 50+.

    QUOTE]

    Wrong.....you must be vegetarian?

    Longest life span in the world, okinowans, who eat more pork than typical Japanese.

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Glendora, CA USA
    My Bikes
    Easy Racers EZ-1 and Lightning Thunderbolt Recumbent Bikes
    Posts
    364
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    3 Omega 3 Fat Pills at each meal.
    That is about all the fat I eat, and
    it keeps my heart healthy, and my
    body trim and fit. And my cholesterol
    is about a total of 108. LDL 68 HDL 40.
    Ned Goudy, Glendora, CA USA
    Lightning Thunderbolt, Easy Racer EZ1, Rhoades Car
    http://www.rhoadescar.com/4w1p-j.jpg

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    1,941
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Max Viotu
    Ok...I'm 51, and I think I have the race training thing down. BUT, I'm into my first year of racing, and I still can't seem to get a handle on recovery. I'm not seeing improvement in my time for the hill climb that I always judge myself by, even though I've been working my tail off, and trying to recover in between my hard training days with either slow 45 minute rides, or days completely off the bike. Improvements in the races have been in baby steps.

    I go out of my way to avoid fat in my diet. I eat mostly whole grain bread and oatmeal, fruits, turkey breast, non-fat milk, pasta w/ tomato sauce, salads (w/ oil-based dressing), and the fake egg stuff from Costco. This, of course, with the intent of weight management. (5'9, 147 lbs).

    Am I getting enough fat, or is the lack of it in my diet perhaps affecting my performance on the bike?

    Max
    A few thoughts. You might also consider "food for fitness", or a similar title.

    It's really hard to make progress both on weight and on performance at the same time.

    Your diet seems pretty reasonable to me. I think you may be a bit fat-poor - getting some more good fats from nuts or olive oil would be an easy thing too change.

    Two other thoughts:

    1) You don't talk about recovery nutrition. Are you focusing on hitting the carb window? I found that adding endurox helped my recovery a fair bit.

    2) You might be as trained as you can get with your current level of aerobic fitness. At that point, you will definitely reach the point of diminishing returns (which will happen to some extent no matter what you do).
    Eric

    2005 Trek 5.2 Madone, Red with Yellow Flames (Beauty)
    199x Lemond Tourmalet, Yellow with fenders (Beast)

    Read my cycling blog at http://riderx.info/blogs/riderx
    Like climbing? Goto http://www.bicycleclimbs.com

  10. #10
    Senior Member DannoXYZ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Saratoga, CA
    Posts
    11,495
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Max Viotu
    Ok...I'm 51, and I think I have the race training thing down. BUT, I'm into my first year of racing, and I still can't seem to get a handle on recovery. I'm not seeing improvement in my time for the hill climb that I always judge myself by, even though I've been working my tail off, and trying to recover in between my hard training days with either slow 45 minute rides, or days completely off the bike. Improvements in the races have been in baby steps.
    Your diet actually sounds fine. Are you eating right after your rides to maximize recovery? If you don't eat right after a long ride, your body will take apart perfectly good muscle to replenish the glycogen stores. This leads to a plateau in performance that you can't get past.

    Also what do you mean by "even though I've been working my tail off, "? How hard are you actually riding? How long is this hill-climb that's your test? My guess is that you're probably NOT training hard enough. Add the following two days to your week and cut out redundant rides somewhere:

    1. up & downhill sprints. Start on a straightaway somewhere and sprint as hard as you can at 100% all-out effort. Get the RPMs are high as you can and shift up, crank as hard and as fast as you can for as long as you can to complete exhaustion. Takes about 25-40 seconds, if you've got anything left afterwards, you didnt' go hard and long enough. Do about 7-15 sprints with complete recover in between, then go home.

    2. intervals. These are sub-maximal efforts, but above LT steady-state speeds. Easy way is to do timed intervals, 1, 2, 3 or 5-minutes at a time. Pick an effort that you can hold for the entire interval, but will end up having you be maxed out by the end. A 1-minute interval will be at about 96-98% of max-sprint effort. A 5-minute interval will be about 90-92% effort or so. Do 4-6 intervals on this day with sufficient rest in between for full recovery. Another way to do intervals is on hills. Pick a 0.5-1.0 mile hill and pace yourself at above LT pace so that you're completely spent at 100% max-HR by the top. Coast down the back side and recover. Turn around and do an interval up the back side.

    After a month or two of adding sprints & intervals to your training, that hillclimb test you do will be quicker for sure.
    Last edited by DannoXYZ; 08-29-06 at 02:33 PM.

  11. #11
    Geosynchronous Falconeer recursive's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
    My Bikes
    2006 Raleigh Rush Hour, Campy Habanero Team Ti, Soma Double Cross
    Posts
    6,312
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by mwrobe1
    IMHO...no and yes.

    Where is the protein coming form in your diet? Its not fat that keeps people fat...its high concentrations of breads, pasta, sugars, and other high-carb-empty calorie foods that get people fat. I also don't subscribe to the whole "I have to carb-up!" before exercising either...I believe (through personal experience) that "proteining-up" is a much better choice.

    Cut out the whole grain bread, oatmeal, milk, pasta and fake egg stuff. Add some more lean meats to your diet...(fish, chicken, leaner cuts of beef, but the fatty cuts once in a while are probably fine for your level of exercise)...eat REAL eggs...they are the perfect food, those fake eggs are crap IMHO. Oh and avoid anything with sugar or high-fructose corn syrup (poison) like the plague.

    My $0.02 for what ts worth.
    This is pretty much the opposite of what I do. No, I'm not a vegetarian. Fruits, vegetables, whole grain bread and pasta are a huge part of my diet. I'm pretty sure that's a pretty standard diet for competitive cyclists. I also eat some chicken, turkey, and fish, but carbohydrates are necessary for an active person.

    I agree with you on the HFCS though. That stuff is evil.

    I'm curious though. I don't want to sound condescending, but I probably will anyway. That's not my intention. Do you race on that diet? That's what the OP is trying to do.
    Bring the pain.

  12. #12
    Senior Member DannoXYZ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Saratoga, CA
    Posts
    11,495
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by recursive
    I'm curious though. I don't want to sound condescending, but I probably will anyway. That's not my intention. Do you race on that diet? That's what the OP is trying to do.
    I think what you're trying to get at is that protein-metabolism is very slow and inefficient compared to carbs? Digesting and absorbing protein is limited to about 50-100 cal/hr and conversion to glucose for energy is highly inefficient and slow. Problem with gluconeogenesis (triggered by cortisol secretions and low glycogen) is that it also converts muscle-proteins to glucose as well.

    At racing paces burning through 800-1000 cal/hr, you're using primarily muscle-glycogen and need to supplement that with glucose from the bloodstream. Relying on protein-intake at 100 cal/hr max will most likely result in bonking on any races over 1.5 hours...

    Here's a good article that discusses how carbs & proteins work before, during and after exercise: Bodybuilding.com - Anabolic Ammunition Arsenal. Note that this for muscle-building and their nutrition is still primarily composed of carbs. And another article: ABCbodybuilding - A Scientific Investigation into the Rationality of Post Workout Carbohydrate Consumption.
    Last edited by DannoXYZ; 08-31-06 at 01:30 PM.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Max Viotu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    55
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Yea, the reason for the Costco 'Egg Starts' is that I really, really like eggs, and I wanted to avoid the cholesterol, but one of the great links above points to some good nutritional info about eggs, which blasted apart some of my false assumptions. So, I'm starting to have a couple of real eggs every 2-3 days, and I'm cutting out the fake ones. I like the real deal a lot better!

    And Yes, Danno, I have been doing more LT intervals lately, and especially getting rid of riding 'junk' miles. I do hit my recovery replentishment window (have been doing Ovaltine within 15 minutes of getting home). I may try Endurox, but Ovaltine is so much cheaper, and I've read that it works much like Endurox. Actually, the more I get into longish interval work, the more it's obvious that I really need to marinate myself in training my weaknesses, and that's where I'll be living more often when I'm out on the road. I totally agree with your suggestions (along with getting the recovery thing down).

    My hill climb test is Lookout Mtn. outside of Golden, CO. I usually do one ascent for time, and a second one cranked down a few cogs for strength training. I'm also starting free weight and resistance training in the next week or two. I think I spent too much time spinning smaller gears in training for my first racing season, but learning is part of the process. It also really sucks that it takes so long to get into racing condition (and recovering from training) at age 51. Oh well...beats the alternative. I know I'm getting stronger. Like everyone else, I'm just trying to find a training/eating/recovery formula that works and makes me better.

    Thanks everyone for the great advice.

    Max
    "Some people see the glass half full. Others see it half empty.
    I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be."
    George Carlin

  14. #14
    Senior Member DannoXYZ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Saratoga, CA
    Posts
    11,495
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Yup, train your weaknesses and race your strengths. Good job!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •