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Old 08-27-06, 04:05 PM   #1
DRLski
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Gatorade Deceived me!!

Actually it's more of my stupidity than Gatorade Deceiving me however today I looked at the label of a gatorade bottle, I don't know if I've just never looked at one before or chose to ignore it but while looking at the ingredients I saw....HIGH FRUCTOSE CORN SYRUP!!!! How can this be? I mind as well be drinking soda. I use this stuff religiously while training and now I'm thinking it's been hurting my weight loss progress. BAH!! I also use the powder, and it seems to be better...they use dextrose instead of HFCS, why couldn't they use dextrose in the bottles as well?? I actually thought the powder used Maltodextrin but was wrong on that as well? I guess I don't know what to say, I always assumed that Gatorade, with the exception of how much sugar they have in it was somewhat healthy...but it's just as healthy as soda!!! How could they have done this and advertise that Gatorade is for athletes?
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Old 08-27-06, 05:09 PM   #2
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it also rots your teeth.. pretty bad stuff too bad i like it so much
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Old 08-27-06, 06:34 PM   #3
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When you're exercising for more than 90 minutes or so, your body needs quick energy. I don't think it makes much difference if it gets that energy from HFC or sucrose or fructose (though the latter can cause stomach upset). If it's really an issue, buy the powdered Gatorade.
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Old 08-27-06, 07:16 PM   #4
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It all depends:
We did this 3000 mile tour at 120 miles/day. Gatorade, Milkshakes, Steak and potatoes were an integral part of our diet. The result? We feel great and loose no weight.
Now I am doing only 50 mile/day. Gatorade and Ice-cream will cause weight gain.
As simple as that.
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Old 08-27-06, 07:57 PM   #5
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GatorAde is meant to replenish electrolytes and provide carbs. I don't think it's ever been represented as a diet drink. HFCS is a source of carbs to give your body energy during exertion, so then it's good, but it's not good for just drinking otherwise. I've never seen a GatorAde advertisement featuring people sitting on their asses, so I think they have their marketing down OK.
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Old 08-27-06, 08:29 PM   #6
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They have thier marketing down. Many folks are convinced that they need to drink Gatorade to mow the lawn.

Did you notice what the Tour riders drink? Water. Food bags sometimes have a small can of Coke.

No "sports drinks". What does that tell you?

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Old 08-27-06, 08:33 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Az B
They have thier marketing down. Many folks are convinced that they need to drink Gatorade to mow the lawn.

Did you notice what the Tour riders drink? Water. Food bags sometimes have a small can of Coke.

No "sports drinks". What does that tell you?

Az
They do use sport drinks sometimes. When they drink water they eat SEVERAL gels (but they waste a lot instead of squeezing out every bit).
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Old 08-27-06, 08:40 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by DRLski
Actually it's more of my stupidity than Gatorade Deceiving me however today I looked at the label of a gatorade bottle, I don't know if I've just never looked at one before or chose to ignore it but while looking at the ingredients I saw....HIGH FRUCTOSE CORN SYRUP!!!! How can this be? I mind as well be drinking soda. I use this stuff religiously while training and now I'm thinking it's been hurting my weight loss progress. BAH!! I also use the powder, and it seems to be better...they use dextrose instead of HFCS, why couldn't they use dextrose in the bottles as well?? I actually thought the powder used Maltodextrin but was wrong on that as well? I guess I don't know what to say, I always assumed that Gatorade, with the exception of how much sugar they have in it was somewhat healthy...but it's just as healthy as soda!!! How could they have done this and advertise that Gatorade is for athletes?
It doesn't matter. It all gets converted to glucose. If your not losing weight, perhaps you shouldn't drink so much of it. Unless you're riding more than a couple hours, you only need water anyway. BTW, I often drink regular cola during 200+ Km rides. It's a good cheap source of calories at a convenience store. Eat something salty with it and you get plenty of electrolytes. You don't really need special food to ride a bike.

Maltodextrine is a weak complex carbohydrate that gets quickly converted to glucose. It allows manufacturers to control the sweetness while still providing the target calorie level. Gatorade doesn't use maltodextrine probably for two reasons. First, it's harder to dissolve into cold water than other surgars, and second because gatorade is intended to be a fairly sweet beverage.
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Old 08-27-06, 10:16 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by SSP
When you're exercising for more than 90 minutes or so, your body needs quick energy. I don't think it makes much difference if it gets that energy from HFC or sucrose or fructose (though the latter can cause stomach upset). If it's really an issue, buy the powdered Gatorade.
+1.

If you can tolerate it *and* you can drink enough of it, the fructose won't cause a problem. I personally find it hard to drink enough gatorade.

They *could* use sucrose in the premix gatorade, but it would cost more than HFCS, so they don't.
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Old 08-28-06, 01:57 AM   #10
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Yes, the powdered Gatorade uses dextrose (glucose) powder and sucrose (table-sugar). The reason the pre-mixed drink uses HFCS is that it's cheap and is delivered in liquid form, making mixing liquid Gatorade very easy. In actual use, I wouldn't worry about HFCS too much. As long as you burn it all off, you'll be fine. Excess amounts while sedentary may be a concern, but that's teh same for all the other foods as well.

If I was to drink Gatorade, I'd buy the power and mix it at double-strength in order to get the necessary carb-calories & electrolytes to water-ratio that I need to take in each hour. This makes it way, way too sweet. So I prefer Cytomax at 2x and eating regular food with water.

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Old 08-28-06, 06:15 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by will dehne
It all depends:
We did this 3000 mile tour at 120 miles/day. Gatorade, Milkshakes, Steak and potatoes were an integral part of our diet. The result? We feel great and loose no weight.
Now I am doing only 50 mile/day. Gatorade and Ice-cream will cause weight gain.
As simple as that.
Steak. Mmmmmmmmmmmm... I should reward myself tonight.

I was reading Running Times magazine last night. There's an article on page 18 about how a 2:1:1 of glucose, fructose, sucrose, absorbs 1.6(?) times faster than plain glucose alone. It's due to different cofactors being involved in absorption.

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Old 08-28-06, 08:27 AM   #12
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Hammer Nutrition also claims their stuff (made with maltodextrin) absorbes at a higher rate. There's no question their stuff is much less sweet, which is more of a factor on longer, harder rides. I just wonder about the other claims. It all seems like sales marketing to me.
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Old 08-28-06, 08:41 AM   #13
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Yeah there was an article in Bicycling magazine that also had an article on sucrose/fructose/maltodextrin, but don't remember it giving the ratios, but the mixture provided up to 2 times the absorption rate of just one of the energy sources on its own. Something about the mixture causes the body to absorb it faster. I wonder how long it will take for someone to come out with a drink with the mixture.

Also, most of the training info I've read says when your training there's nothing wrong with fructose drinks, just that on longer rides many people can't stomach them that well.

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Old 08-28-06, 09:11 AM   #14
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My main problem with Gatorade is that it tastes waaay too sweet, and it pretty bad affect on the teeth. I tried Gu2O recently and I like it so far. Even during hard efforts I can stomach it. Which I can't say about gatorade.
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Old 08-28-06, 11:19 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ
In actual use, I wouldn't worry about HFCS too much. As long as you burn it all off, you'll be fine. Excess amounts while sedentary may be a concern, but that's teh same for all the other carbs as well.
I'm not sure about that. The fact that fructose is converted to glucose in your liver and HCFS contains a lot of it makes me wonder about the needless strain on one's liver when there's lots of other sweeteners available. Especially considering how much we already take in that requires the liver to go the extra mile. Converting lots of fructose in the liver also makes a lot of building blocks available for the creation of lipids which can contribute to high triglycerides, and the evidence so far makes this seem more of a problem for men than women.

If all you're taking in is the occasional Gatorade, I agree that it's probably not a big deal, but it's in so many different food products. Depending on where you shop, you can't escape it. I'm not completely paranoid about it the way some people are, but I just don't think too much fructose is a good idea for the human body, and HFCS contains too much by virtue of its make-up.
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Old 08-28-06, 04:07 PM   #16
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I'm not sure about that. The fact that fructose is converted to glucose in your liver and HCFS contains a lot of it makes me wonder about the needless strain on one's liver when there's lots of other sweeteners available. Especially considering how much we already take in that requires the liver to go the extra mile. Converting lots of fructose in the liver also makes a lot of building blocks available for the creation of lipids which can contribute to high triglycerides, and the evidence so far makes this seem more of a problem for men than women.

If all you're taking in is the occasional Gatorade, I agree that it's probably not a big deal, but it's in so many different food products. Depending on where you shop, you can't escape it. I'm not completely paranoid about it the way some people are, but I just don't think too much fructose is a good idea for the human body, and HFCS contains too much by virtue of its make-up.
it is only a strain if you drink it while NOT exercising.

HFCS is 1.5 times sweeter than cane sugar, so they use less of it to sweeten the drink.
hence, cheaper.

HFCS is not poison or bad for you -if you use it while riding-. if you use it off the bike
then you are straining your pancreas and liver too much if you drink more than 8oz.
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Old 08-28-06, 06:14 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by edzo
it is only a strain if you drink it while NOT exercising.

HFCS is 1.5 times sweeter than cane sugar, so they use less of it to sweeten the drink.
hence, cheaper.

HFCS is not poison or bad for you -if you use it while riding-. if you use it off the bike
then you are straining your pancreas and liver too much if you drink more than 8oz.
Back up your stats, please?


HFCS is roughly half glucose and half fructose...just like sucrose (well, what sucrose very rapidly breaks down into).

We go through this "OMG!!!111one HFCS IS TEH BAD 4 U!!!" routine about once a month but no one cares to listen to fact, science, and logic. It's no better or worse for you than regular sugar.
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Old 08-28-06, 07:11 PM   #18
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Back up your stats, please?


HFCS is roughly half glucose and half fructose...just like sucrose (well, what sucrose very rapidly breaks down into).

We go through this "OMG!!!111one HFCS IS TEH BAD 4 U!!!" routine about once a month but no one cares to listen to fact, science, and logic. It's no better or worse for you than regular sugar.
Yep. And people blaming their weight problem on the type of sugar, as opposed to the amount of sugar, they consume will stay overweight until they reconize the real problem.
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Old 08-29-06, 12:37 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edzo
it is only a strain if you drink it while NOT exercising.

HFCS is 1.5 times sweeter than cane sugar, so they use less of it to sweeten the drink.
hence, cheaper.

HFCS is not poison or bad for you -if you use it while riding-. if you use it off the bike
then you are straining your pancreas and liver too much if you drink more than 8oz.
So you're saying that the liver does not convert fructose into glucose if you are exercising? Where is it getting converted into glucose if not the liver? Does some other organ of the body produce fructokinase when we exercise? What organ is that?
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Old 08-29-06, 06:49 AM   #20
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So you're saying that the liver does not convert fructose into glucose if you are exercising? Where is it getting converted into glucose if not the liver? Does some other organ of the body produce fructokinase when we exercise? What organ is that?

no I am not saying that,

I am saying generally, it causes too much of an insulin dump and recovery process
which is fine and dandy, but it is better to drink water and eat food instead of sugary
beverages if you ain't working out hard.

when working out hard, muscles take glucose out of blood without need for
insulin to trigger it. the pancreas and endocrine system runs better when
less pure glucose is ingested during rest
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Old 08-29-06, 07:29 AM   #21
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Back up your stats, please?
"Sweet" is subjective, it can have no stats to back it up. It's not a claim about calories. Just from a bottom line perspective the American Consumer probably backs up the fact that HFCS is swetter to the average taste bud than anything else. This allows food manufacturers to use less and still get the super sickly sweet sweetness that so many of our off-the-shelf foods have.

For our purposes, presumably to deliver calories to your stomach as peacefully as possible, the sweeter something is the harder it's going to be to take when mixed at exercise-required levels. This is why I see the maltodextrin-based drinks eventually gaining popularity with most endurance athletes. It's incredibly not sweet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 'nother
We go through this "OMG!!!111one HFCS IS TEH BAD 4 U!!!" routine about once a month but no one cares to listen to fact, science, and logic. It's no better or worse for you than regular sugar.
Once a month? That infrequently?
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Old 08-29-06, 09:17 AM   #22
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"Sweet" is subjective, it can have no stats to back it up. It's not a claim about calories. Just from a bottom line perspective the American Consumer probably backs up the fact that HFCS is swetter to the average taste bud than anything else. This allows food manufacturers to use less and still get the super sickly sweet sweetness that so many of our off-the-shelf foods have.
You're probably making the mistake that many do and mixing up (pure) fructose with HFCS. They're not the same. Pure fructose is...well, 100% fructose molecules. It is indeed a lot sweeter than sugar. HFCS on the other hand is about half glucose molecules, half fructose molecules. Sugar (sucrose) molecules are composed of one fructose molecule and one glucose molecule which rapidly break down into their components. I can't see how that would make either one significantly "sweeter" than the other.

Manufacturers use HFCS because it's *cheaper* than cane sugar, not because it's sweeter. The fact that it's in solution also makes it easier to mix into certain food types, i.e. liquids and gels.

Quote:
For our purposes, presumably to deliver calories to your stomach as peacefully as possible, the sweeter something is the harder it's going to be to take when mixed at exercise-required levels. This is why I see the maltodextrin-based drinks eventually gaining popularity with most endurance athletes. It's incredibly not sweet.
It's not sweetness that's the issue. It's fructose specifically, which by itself or in inordinate quantities relative to glucose, can inhibit gastric emptying. You don't want slower gastric emptying when you're exercising; you need to get it into your bloodstream as quickly as possible.


There is some substance to the concern over *pure* fructose when exercising; it's why pure fruit juice drinks are not recommended. Pure fructose is not absorbed as quickly and doesn't provide the "quick energy" as glucose. But actually what's interesting is that sucrose (glucose + fructose) or glucose polymers + fructose are apparently absorbed faster than pure glucose, which may be in part why many maltodextrine-based drinks and gels frequently have added fructose...yeah, read the labels. People read "high FRUCTOSE corn syrup", not really understanding what it is, and jump to the conclusion that it's awful for you and so on.

But if you would learn a little bit about what HFCS actually is, and a little bit about how your body works, you will understand what I said before: it's no worse or better for you than sugar (there is probably some room for debate on that topic but I'm not going to take it up here).
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Old 08-29-06, 10:05 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by 'nother
But actually what's interesting is that sucrose (glucose + fructose) or glucose polymers + fructose are apparently absorbed faster than pure glucose, which may be in part why many maltodextrine-based drinks and gels frequently have added fructose...yeah, read the labels. People read "high FRUCTOSE corn syrup", not really understanding what it is, and jump to the conclusion that it's awful for you and so on.

But if you would learn a little bit about what HFCS actually is, and a little bit about how your body works, you will understand what I said before: it's no worse or better for you than sugar (there is probably some room for debate on that topic but I'm not going to take it up here).
I'm not debating the relative merits of HFCS/sucrose/fructose. I agree with everything you said. My above post was clarifying something another person said, perhaps errantly and not terribly well thought out. I'm sure you're right about cheapness being the main factor in why HFCS is used. As a rule, I don't eat any of that stuff when not exercising. I'm sure I don't comply 100% but in general any refined sugar is not part of my daily diet.

I read the Bicycling Magazine article recently that said recent research shows a 2:1 maltodextrin:sucrose mix actually absorbes faster than anything by itself. Sucrose is nothing more than simple table sugar, correct? I'm going to start mixing my own sports drink beginning with this weekend's rides. After this past weekend's 24 hour race, I cannot take Accelerade nor Gatorade any longer.
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Old 08-29-06, 11:06 AM   #24
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A little pre-planning and you don't need to be too concerned about the speed of absorption of either water or carbohydrate. If you eat and drink early and often, you keep the pipeline filled, so to speak, and there's a constant influx of nutrition. If you wait until you are on the edge of heat exhaustion or bonking, then you need to be concerned with how fast you can get fluid and calories into your system.
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Old 08-29-06, 12:25 PM   #25
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A little pre-planning and you don't need to be too concerned about the speed of absorption of either water or carbohydrate. If you eat and drink early and often, you keep the pipeline filled, so to speak, and there's a constant influx of nutrition. If you wait until you are on the edge of heat exhaustion or bonking, then you need to be concerned with how fast you can get fluid and calories into your system.
My goal is oriented more towards endurance MTB racing. I can road ride forever and never have these problems (not really, but comparatively). But when you get a lot of hours off-road, it multiples everything tremendously. Margins for error start to become chasms, and chasms become canyons.
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