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Old 10-14-06, 10:19 PM   #1
kmckay
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I finally have found a way to eat that is healthy and keeps the weight off

Here is the way I have been eating for the last year. Never felt better in my life.



4-6 meals a day



1 tbs fish oil Daily

protein size of palm of hand Every meal

non starchy veggies unlimited Every meal

nuts small hand full or 1 tbs oil Every meal

max 20 gram carb from fruit/starchy veg per meal weekday

max 40 gram carb from fruit/starchy veg per meal weekend

Don't eat after 5pm except post workout everyday



only grass fed/free range meats

no grain or grain products

no refined or processed anything

no legumes

no sugars

no juice

no dairy

no salt



Lost 20 lbs of fat and gained 10 lbs muscle all tested with hydrostatic weighing. Just wanted to share since it has worked so well for me. This is how humans ate for the last 2.5 million years up untill recently and after you do it for a while you will know it is what you were designed for.

Note: first couple of weeks you may feel like hell as you detox.



cheers
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Old 10-14-06, 11:50 PM   #2
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Humans didnt use lighting, plumbing or central heating either for the previous 2.5 million years.

I prefer to emulate humans of modern times, you can pick the caveman type to emulate. To each his own
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Old 10-15-06, 12:03 AM   #3
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that's pretty hard core, good for you

i like juice and legumes are a great source of protein! i also think it is good to take in some salt, especially if you've been working out.
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Old 10-15-06, 12:09 AM   #4
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v1k1ng1001
Actually juice is all cho and legumes as will with a little protein but the bio availability is super low because it is incased in fiber.

Last edited by kmckay; 10-15-06 at 12:17 AM.
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Old 10-15-06, 12:15 AM   #5
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Jarery

Average modern diet = mostly refined carbohydrates = obesity, heart disease, cancer, diabetes.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/...2315516&page=1
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Old 10-15-06, 12:22 AM   #6
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If you want to believe that the reason for obesity is carbs, thats fine, you stick with your paleo diet.
I'll choose to believe obesity is from overconsumtion of food, and especially crap food, and i'll continue to eat food from all food types and not restrict anything.
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Old 10-15-06, 12:28 AM   #7
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"refined carbs" big difference I eat plenty of carbs
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Old 10-15-06, 12:30 AM   #8
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I read your link.

They blame sugary drinks as the no 1 cause. They aslo say the following:

"In the developing world, beef is in part the culprit.
Popkin points a finger at the growing consumption of dairy, poultry, and other meat products.
As beef and vegetable oil prices fell, more and more people gave up rice and noodles in favor of fatty meats and fried food, he said.
Using China as a case study, Popkin said that the country now had a 25 percent obesity rate — an unknown phenomenon 20 years ago. "

So according to your posted link, obesity seems to be casued from people moving away from grains and noodles and eating beef. Not really a good link to be posting in defence of your paleo diet.
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Old 10-15-06, 12:45 AM   #9
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Interesting I eat allot of beef sometimes a pound a day and my weight has dropped and my performance has gone up. My hdl ldl tryglicerides and blood pressure numbers have improved. I must point out I eat only grass fed beef as the fat is very different than grain fed beef, grass fed is rich in alpha lipoic acid conjugated linoleic acids and omega-3 fatty acids. All I can say is that after switching from a high carb low fat diet my health has improved dramatically and I keep very accurate performance metrics.

The China study was an epidemiological study. Epidemiological studies only show corelations, and correlations do not equal causation. There have been plenty of clinical trials looking at the role of saturated fat and cholesterol on heart disease and overall mortality, so why do you need to justify your position using an epidemiological study that also found all sorts of correlations like smoking decreases cancer rates

1.) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstra ctPlus&list_uids=2643423&query_hl=10&itool=pubmed_DocSum

In this double-blind, randomized trial, the most powerful study of all, there were no decrease in CHD from lowering saturated fat by half, and decreasing cholesterol from 207 to 175.

2.) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstra ctPlus&list_uids=2571009&query_hl=12&itool=pubmed_docsum

Here, lowering fat intake and increasing the ratio of polyunsaturated fat to saturated fat did nothing for decreasing CHD.

I do agree very strongly with you in the point of sugery drinks which cause a insulin spike and resulting negative hormonal cascade. I also avoid fried foods.

Here is an excelant resource

http://thepaleodiet.com/

Loren Cordain, Ph.D., is the man if you really want to know how you were designed to eat for max performance imho. Everybody is different and maybe you were blessed with genes that allow you to eat a modern diet and stay healthy I like pizza and icecream as much as the next guy but unfortunatly I am not so lucky and ballon up from my healthy 175 to 212 if I eat unchecked

Last edited by kmckay; 10-15-06 at 01:15 AM.
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Old 10-15-06, 01:39 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmckay
The China study was an epidemiological study. Epidemiological studies only show corelations, and correlations do not equal causation. There have been plenty of clinical trials looking at the role of saturated fat and cholesterol on heart disease and overall mortality, so why do you need to justify your position using an epidemiological study that also found all sorts of correlations like smoking decreases cancer rates
YOU posted a link that mentions china and their population gaining weight. And now your asking me why I need to use it to defend my position?

I'm happy you found something that works for you. I am able to eat from all food groups, including ice cream. And i dont have to worry about my weight ballooning. So i'll end this by sayign i'm happy for you. You dont need to try to convert me, im happy with a non restrictive diet thanks
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Old 10-15-06, 01:48 AM   #11
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Cool have a good one.

And eat some ice cream for me you lucky guy
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Old 10-15-06, 06:29 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmckay
Jarery

Average modern diet = mostly refined carbohydrates = obesity, heart disease, cancer, diabetes.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/...2315516&page=1
Average modern human doesn't exercise.

If you exercise regularly...then you can pretty much eat whatever.
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Old 10-15-06, 08:41 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmckay
Jarery

Average modern diet = mostly refined carbohydrates = obesity, heart disease, cancer, diabetes.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/...2315516&page=1
Dude, then why has obesity only been a problem in the last 30-years? And mainly with Americans? Humans have not evolved genetically that much in a single generation. Look at the humans with the longest life-expectancy, the Japanese. What's the major portion of their diet? WHITE RICE!!!

The main problem I see, and it's pretty obvious when you compare with your parents' lifestyle is:

- much less exercise, modern humans like convenience, driving their cars everywhere, sitting in offices and working at a desk instead of hard sweaty labour in a manufacturing plant.

- we eat A LOT more!!! My parents are always amazed at all the huge Super Big-Gulps, SuperSize/Biggie-Size this & that. Heck, in their days, a standard soda was 8-oz and they drank those all the time. But only 8-oz at a time...

- change in composition of diet, we eat a LOT less vegetables & fruits and have replaced that with carbs & fat (fast food). We don't have to go to the extreme of low-carbs, that's overcompensating, just reduce them and eat more fruits & veggies like the old days.

It's all about balance, if you tip the scales too much to one side of anything, you've exaggerating the side-effects as well.
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Old 10-15-06, 09:12 AM   #14
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Hammero2:
I exercice like a mad dog and can still get fat depending on what I eat, part genetics part age.

Danoxyx:
"Humans have not evolved genetically that much in a single generation" exactly my point 2.5 million years no rice only fruit & veggies, grains have only been around for only the blink of an eye how can you go wrong eating paleo?

"- change in composition of diet, we eat a LOT less vegetables & fruits and have replaced that with carbs & fat (fast food). We don't have to go to the extreme of low-carbs, that's overcompensating, just reduce them and eat more fruits & veggies like the old days"

Did you read what I actally eat?

1 tbs fish oil Daily

protein size of palm of hand Every meal

non starchy veggies unlimited Every meal

nuts small hand full or 1 tbs oil Every meal

max 20 gram carb from fruit/starchy veg per meal weekday

max 40 gram carb from fruit/starchy veg per meal weekend

Don't eat after 5pm except post workout everyday

only grass fed/free range meats

no grain or grain products

no refined or processed anything

no legumes

no sugars

no juice

no dairy

no salt

OLD SCHOOL BABY!

Sometimes a whole chicken 2 heads of cabbage 6 cups of brocolli and more fruit than you can shake a stick at just like great great great great grampa back on the farm all natural super nutrient dense food
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Old 10-15-06, 09:14 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ
Dude, then why has obesity only been a problem in the last 30-years? And mainly with Americans? Humans have not evolved genetically that much in a single generation. Look at the humans with the longest life-expectancy, the Japanese. What's the major portion of their diet? WHITE RICE!!!

The main problem I see, and it's pretty obvious when you compare with your parents' lifestyle is:

- much less exercise, modern humans like convenience, driving their cars everywhere, sitting in offices and working at a desk instead of hard sweaty labour in a manufacturing plant.

- we eat A LOT more!!! My parents are always amazed at all the huge Super Big-Gulps, SuperSize/Biggie-Size this & that. Heck, in their days, a standard soda was 8-oz and they drank those all the time. But only 8-oz at a time...

- change in composition of diet, we eat a LOT less vegetables & fruits and have replaced that with carbs & fat (fast food). We don't have to go to the extreme of low-carbs, that's overcompensating, just reduce them and eat more fruits & veggies like the old days.

It's all about balance, if you tip the scales too much to one side of anything, you've exaggerating the side-effects as well.

It is interesting that you mention the Japanese. From what I understand is that Asians tend to have the least dense bones in comparison to Europeans and Africans. But I also understand that they have the least incidence of fractured hips in the elderly, as well as a longer life span. From what I gather many elderly Asians are very active in their lifestyles with Tai chi and the like. This supposedly develops or maintains strength and balance, and is very easy on the joints as well.

I have also heard that soft drink consumption leads to leaching of calcium from the bones and teenage females need to promote bone density, but in fact many do the opposite by drinking pop.

I heard an anecdote as well that few elderly women earlier in the 20th century developed osteoporosis and broken hips were much less of a problem. It was claimed that people were exhumed and their bone densities were looked at, and these people had much higher bone densities than many people in the present.
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Old 10-15-06, 09:35 AM   #16
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Socratese I know even less than you... but it is refined cho that leads to leaching of calcium from the bones.
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Old 10-15-06, 09:41 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmckay
Socratese I know even less than you... but it is refined cho that leads to leaching of calcium from the bones.
I don't know if that is true, and I am not saying that is isn't, but there are alot of refined sugars in pop. I think I heard it explained that it is the acid in pop that leaches minerals from the bones.
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Old 10-15-06, 09:49 AM   #18
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Dannoxyx when you say Japanese I assume you mean Okinawan and don't forget the Sardinian's and Seventh Day Adventist when analyzing longevity.
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Old 10-15-06, 10:00 AM   #19
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I am 60YO and my body prefers a plant based diet over an animal based diet for maximum performance.
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Old 10-15-06, 10:01 AM   #20
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Soc, net calcium bal lance is a function of net renal acid load refined carbs tend to be very acidic.

Potential Renal Acid Load per 100 grams

Refined carbs
Bread, rye flour mixed
4.0Bread, rye flour 4.1Bread, wheat flour mixed3.8Bread, wheat flour whole meal1.8Bread, white bread3.7Cornflakes6.0Crispbread, rye3.3Noodles, egg6.4Oat flakes, rolled oats10.7Rice, brown12.5Rice, white, easy cook4.6Rice, white, easy cook, boiled1.7Rye flour, whole5.9Spaghetti, white6.5Spaghetti, whole meal7.3Wheat flour, white plain6.9Wheat flour, whole meal8.2

now look at vegi's

Asparagus-0.4Broccoli, green-1.2Carrots, young-4.9Cauliflower-4.0Celery-5.2Chicory-2.0Cucumber-0.8Eggplant-3.4Leeks-1.8Lettuce, average 4 varieties-2.5Lettuce, iceberg-1.6Mushrooms, common-1.4Onions-1.5Peppers, green-1.4Potatoes, old-4.0Radish, red-3.7Spinach-14.0Tomato juice-2.8Tomatoes-3.1Zucchini-4.6
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Old 10-15-06, 10:03 AM   #21
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Joe1946

I am with you I eat literally tons of fruit and vegetables and you cant beat them as your source of cho, but I also eat allot of meat as my species is omnivorous and my performance/body comp declines when I eat like a herbivore.

Last edited by kmckay; 10-15-06 at 10:20 AM.
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Old 10-15-06, 02:09 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by !!Comatoa$ted
It is interesting that you mention the Japanese. From what I understand is that Asians tend to have the least dense bones in comparison to Europeans and Africans. But I also understand that they have the least incidence of fractured hips in the elderly, as well as a longer life span. From what I gather many elderly Asians are very active in their lifestyles with Tai chi and the like. This supposedly develops or maintains strength and balance, and is very easy on the joints as well.

I have also heard that soft drink consumption leads to leaching of calcium from the bones and teenage females need to promote bone density, but in fact many do the opposite by drinking pop.

I heard an anecdote as well that few elderly women earlier in the 20th century developed osteoporosis and broken hips were much less of a problem. It was claimed that people were exhumed and their bone densities were looked at, and these people had much higher bone densities than many people in the present.
I think this shows that exercise is more important than diet. The elderly in Asian countries aren't as pampered here; there's no rest/retirement homes. They still have to do a lot for themselves. I'm sure the TaiChi helps with coordination greatly. My grandma (who's Asian), lives in Canda fell on the ice and had no problems breaking her hip!

Yeah, the phosphoric acid in soda can inhibit calcium-absoption. But also high iron-intake will do the same as well. A lot of women take iron-supplements and overdoing those will reduce your absorption of calcium. However, bone-density relates more to stress-levels than calcium intake anyway (your body will only absorb as much as it needs, you can't force more). The bone-strength has more to do with weight-bearing on the bones and as you stress them more, they build up density to deal with the load. Contrast the bones in the pitching-arms of baseball pitchers vs. the dormant arm. Strength-exercises in the gym and running have been shown to really help older people maintain bone-density, much more than taking calcium supplements.

Last edited by DannoXYZ; 10-16-06 at 03:14 AM.
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Old 10-15-06, 02:36 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmckay
Soc, net calcium bal lance is a function of net renal acid load refined carbs tend to be very acidic.

Potential Renal Acid Load per 100 grams

Refined carbs
Bread, rye flour mixed
4.0Bread, rye flour 4.1Bread, wheat flour mixed3.8Bread, wheat flour whole meal1.8Bread, white bread3.7Cornflakes6.0Crispbread, rye3.3Noodles, egg6.4Oat flakes, rolled oats10.7Rice, brown12.5Rice, white, easy cook4.6Rice, white, easy cook, boiled1.7Rye flour, whole5.9Spaghetti, white6.5Spaghetti, whole meal7.3Wheat flour, white plain6.9Wheat flour, whole meal8.2

now look at vegi's

Asparagus-0.4Broccoli, green-1.2Carrots, young-4.9Cauliflower-4.0Celery-5.2Chicory-2.0Cucumber-0.8Eggplant-3.4Leeks-1.8Lettuce, average 4 varieties-2.5Lettuce, iceberg-1.6Mushrooms, common-1.4Onions-1.5Peppers, green-1.4Potatoes, old-4.0Radish, red-3.7Spinach-14.0Tomato juice-2.8Tomatoes-3.1Zucchini-4.6

So in other words the acidity of colas due to the nature of thier high carb content may weaken bones.




Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ
I think this shows that exercise is more important than diet. The elderly in Asian countries aren't as pampered here; there's no rest/retirement homes. They still have to do a lot for themselves.

Yeah, the phosphoric acid in soda can inhibit calcium-absoption. But also high iron-intake will do the same as well. A lot of women take iron-supplements and overdoing those will reduce your absorption of calcium. However, bone-density relates more to stress-levels than calcium intake anyway (your body will only absorb as much as it needs, you can't force more). The bone-strength has more to do with weight-bearing on the bones and as you stress them more, they build up density to deal with the load. Contrast the bones in the pitching-arms of baseball pitchers vs. the dormant arm. Strength-exercises in the gym and running have been shown to really help older people maintain bone-density, much more than taking calcium supplements.
So when rapid bone growth is happening it is being inhibited by phosphoric acid. As well you say, and as I understand it, bones like to incoporate heavy elements into them, as well as calcuim. I am thinking that in the end calcium supplementation will not increase bone mass on it's own. At best it will keep the body from liberating stored calcium to keep blood levels at appropriate levels unless, the bones are actually being used as in a weight bearing exercise. So do lots of weights and don't drink pop.
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Old 10-15-06, 03:09 PM   #24
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In the U.S. calcium intake is one of the highest in the world, yet paradoxically we also have one of the highest rates of bone de-mineralization (osteoporosis). Bone mineral content is dependent not just upon calcium intake but upon net calcium balance (calcium intake minus calcium excretion). Most nutritionists focus upon the calcium intake side of the calcium balance equation, however few realize that the calcium excretion side of the equation is just as important.
Bone health is substantially dependent on dietary acid/base balance. All foods upon digestion ultimately must report to the kidney as either acid or base. When the diet yields a net acid load (such as low-carb fad diets that restrict consumption of fruits and vegetables), the acid must be buffered by the alkaline stores of base in the body. Calcium salts in the bones represent the largest store of alkaline base in the body and are depleted and eliminated in the urine when the diet produces a net acid load. The highest acid-producing foods are hard cheeses, cereal grains, salted foods, meats, and legumes, whereas the only alkaline, base-producing foods are fruits and vegetables. Because the average American diet is overloaded with grains, cheeses, salted processed foods, and fatty meats at the expense of fruits and vegetables, it produces a net acid load and promotes bone de-mineralization. By replacing hard cheeses, cereal grains, and processed foods with plenty of green vegetables and fruits, the body comes back into acid/base balance which brings us also back into calcium balance
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Old 10-15-06, 03:24 PM   #25
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Well good for everyone who's lost weight doing "this and/or that". What works for you may not for me or may seem extremely stupid. I lost 120 pounds over 2~6 month periods by: Not eating fast food, riding my ass off and counting calories.

I know people who can eat McDonalds every day and not gain weight. Does that mean they are healthy?

Words like "detox" irk the hell out of me.

Everyone has their "thing" in regards to eating healthy and losing weight. Everyone loves to see my before and after pictures and are extremely interested up until the point that I tell them that I didn't use <insert fad diet here> or <insert magic pill here>. When I tell them that I ride x hours per day and eat x,xxx calories per day, they lose interest.

If it works for you, cool. Me? I couldn't live on that kind of diet. Paleo's didn't drink wine, and I love wine.
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