EJ123

I was reading this little article from Muscle & Fitness called Lose fat while you sleep.

https://www.findarticles.com/p/articl...6/ai_n13785840

I am trying to lose weight (233ish now, was 254 in mid june) and wanting to add muscle mass. I currently take whey protein throughout the day to prevent breakdown of muscle, which could happen in weight loss. Now im curious to see if this will work, that is even if it is somewhat, and what you have to say on these items it lists. So here we go: There is more info on the link.

• 1-Conjugated Linoleic Acid (CLA):

...With regard to bodybuilders, CLA stimulates muscle growth while simultaneously promoting fat lossby decreasing the amount of bodyfat stored in fat cells, raising metabolism and burning blubber while you sleep. ...
Dosage: Take 1-3 grams before bed and two more equivalent doses throughout the day.

• 2-Gymnema Sylvestre

...It increases insulin release, which makes it a great nighttime supplement for the dieting bodybuilder. Not only does it help you steer clear of carbs at night, but it also helps turn that prebedtime protein shake into muscle.
....
Dosage: Take about 250-500 mg in the evening

• 3-Glucomannan

... This leads to a sense of fullness and has been clinically documented to result in significant weight loss. Glucomannan also delays stomach emptying--which slows the digestion and absorption of all nutrients, including carbohydrates--and leads to stabler blood-glucose levels....
Dosage: Try 1-2 grams of glucomannan in the evening

• 4-Guggulsterone

...Guggulsterones increase the uptake of iodine by the thyroid gland, leading to greater production of thyroid hormones, which increase metabolic rate without the buzz many thermogenics cause. This makes it a great ingredient for nighttime fat-loss formulas. Guggulsterones also provide a potent cholesterol-lowering effect...
Dosage: Go with 20-60 mg of guggulsterones E and Z before bed and take another 1-2 doses throughout the day.

• 5-Fish Oil

...New research has found that ingesting these healthy fats can help you drop bodyfat. Omega-3s from fish oil have been found to increase oxidation of fat by activating genes that break down lipids in the body...

supcom

Save your money. You can't sleep you way thin. Sorry, it doesn't work that way. If you want to lose fat, you need to burn it in your muscles through exertion.

Maybe you should stop reading trash magazines that promote such garbage.

EJ123

No also along with exercise and a maintained diet.

Joe1946

I loose fat while I sleep because I get all my biking in by 3pm and don't eat anything after 3pm. It may not work for you but it works like a dream for me. I am 6 ft and I dropped from 187 on September 5th to 164.8 lbs this morning. I pigged out too much today but I will burn it off in a few days.

EJ123

Do you weight lift?

Machka 

Yes, you can burn calories while you sleep. If you weigh about 200 lbs, and sleep 8 hours at night, you'll burn about 670 calories. But that amount is calculated into your daily energy expenditure anyway.

https://www.healthstatus.com/calculate/cbc

https://www.healthstatus.com/calculate/dee

LastPlace

EJ123,

If you want what is arguably better nutrition advice, I would look at Men's Health magazine. The articles are informative, generally say there is no shortcut to weight loss, and the recipes look pretty good.

Az B

Muscle and Fitness magazine exists to sell supplements.

Az

EJ123

Well I've been researching around looking at clinical trials for these things, and im wondering if these supplements, as some studies shown, in a broad sense, will aid in losing fat and in gaining muscle, which is hard to do at the same time. Regular exercise and eating whole high nutrient foods along with I guess a few of these supplements can't hurt. In fact, I bet some of these might actually help. From what I know, if someone wants to lose fat without muscle, weight lifting is the key with eating good foods, and encorporating aerobics in order not to lose muscle mass also with fat, and then perhaps these could help a lot. I understand CLA is a very effectice supplement, and out of all I would think that omega 3's would be great during the day, and right before bed. Yesterday I picked up CLA, Gymnema Sylvestre, and more fish oils and I'll experiment with these to see what will happen.

Jarery

I can guess what will happen.
-your cash will be less
-you'll be dissapointed as any result will be so small as to be non measurable
-a marketing firm will get more contracts for successfully increasing sales of snake oil
-suppliment companies get richer

EJ123

You diss the fish oils?

Richard Cranium

Wow, if you take certain pills at night, ---- you lose weight will you sleep!

That's pretty cool, I'm surprised that only Muscle and Fitness magazine readers found out about it. I'm pretty sure that kind of info ought to go in medical journals too.

Now, that we all know about it -- bye bye fat people........ yippeeee --- !!!

EJ123

Would you take a protein shake after exercising? Oh, but do you think it is irrelevant to? That is, in reparing/rebuilding muscle?
Anyone can gain muscle by protein from foods, but taking extra protein will additionally help. Well, same can be said for any other supplements when it's generally characterized by what clinical trials have shown for it to do. These supplements don't precisly mean "take these, and you'll lose body fat." From what I read they mean, oh CLA/fish oil, aids in the bodys ability to burn fat (that you do from exercise), and keeps it off or decreasing the likelyhood of losing muscle mass. I've looked up substantial amounts of research on these that has shown by clinical trials that most of the times they will help in that. Along with the other herbals stuff, they help prevent cravings and possible help control things for the good that can benefit people during exercise like a stable blood sugar level. So what if M&F only published this article. Doesn't matter anyway, because I bet there is plenty of journals and trials on each one of these supplements separatly that can state possible benefits. Let me ask you a question..Have you read or studied any, any significant article or study saying these have absolutly no effect? I just don't see why people would not want to look into this any bit, rather than just say it's no good, if they havent looked anything up.

Joe1946

I have a bench and two pairs of dumbells but I mainly bike with alot of hills and don't want to bulk up were I don't need it for biking up hills. I pigged out yesterday and did alot of hills today and felt great doing it.

Machka 

Nope! I'd eat a chicken sandwich though.



Prove it. Show us some of these peer reviewed medical journal articles you have researched. As we all know ... anything other than peer reviewed medical journal articles or books are just fluff. While you are digging up these articles, remember to let us know who funded the research.


The only thing that creates a stable blood sugar level is food intake, which is then converted to sugars.

late

EJ,
there is a lot of experience in this forum. I wouldn't simply dismiss
what people are saying without having a darn good reason....
1) Fish oil caps... great stuff, try Salmon Oil caps for fewer fishy burps
2) CLA, tried it, can't say I noticed a difference
3) Gymnema Sylvestre... talk to a Doc, possibly a specialist about using the stuff. Seriously, you don't want to screw around without knowing what you're doing.
4) Glucomannan... tried it, stopped, don't remember why. It's fiber, there are many other types of fiber. Oat bran is good, and cheap.
5) Guggulsterone... this is a new one for me. Powerful, which is not neccesarily a
good thing.
https://www.nutraingredients-usa.com/...raises-quality
I would do a hell of a lot of research first.


Btw, Muscle and Fitness is little more than advertising disguised as a magazine.

EJ123

Better hope it's not fried





CLA:

Business Wire:

"A significant health promoter" is how Delbert R. Dorscheid, M.D., Ph.D., describes conjugated linoleic acid (CLA), a naturally occurring fatty acid found primarily in beef and dairy fats. Dr. Dorscheid, a cancer and asthma researcher on the faculty in Pulmonary and Critical Care Medicine at the University of Chicago, has just completed a scientific review of more than 200 published research and clinical studies world wide on CLA's health benefits. None of these have been previously released to the media.

He adds that there are studies indicating that CLA causes a decrease in tumor initiation and growth and also reduces the activation of certain cancer-causing compounds.

Dr. Dorscheid says that other studies are showing that CLA appears to provide additional health results, including improving asthma and blood sugar control and limiting the extent of atherosclerosis which can lead to heart disease.

CLA was first identified in 1987 by researchers at the University of Wisconsin-Madison. Mark E. Cook, Ph.D. who is conducting research at Madison on the cancer and immune benefits of CLA, says that there are at least 60 other academic and industry research centers doing in-depth research on CLA.

"The findings are very exciting and create a body of knowledge that support some very profound expectations for the role of CLA as a major player in important areas of disease prevention and overall health for the population," says Dr. Cook.

Scientists today believe that Americans are getting much less CLA in their diets than they did 30 years ago. This is due to two factors: We have substantially reduced our consumption of beef and cattle dairy products to avoid cholesterol, and beef and dairy cattle production of CLA has been reduced by 65% caused by changes in cattle feed. When cattle feed on pasture grass, their digestive system converts linoleic acid into CLA. Today, the majority of cattle are being fed on forage.

Some researchers believe this reduction in CLA intake is a contributing factor to the steady rise of obesity in the U.S. Others hypothesize that an increase here in the incidence of breast and prostate cancer and asthma severity might also be due to decreased CLA intake. The average CLA intake today is estimated to lie between 15 and 175 mg daily. This intake is far below 3000 mg a day, a level at which the anticarcinogenic effects may be seen, according to Dr. Dorscheid.

`Obviously, there is need for additional studies, some of which are underway and others in the planning stages, to verify these findings and hypotheses, but the preliminary results look exceedingly hopeful," Dr. Dorscheid says. "As such, CLA may be an important and necessary dietary supplement for humans."

The benefits of CLA can be obtained through the patented Tonalin(R) CLA, available since 1997 from Natural, Inc, based in Vernon Hills, IL. Natural's Tonalin(R) CLA uses a proprietary process which converts linoleic acid in safflower oil into conjugated linoleic acid. Tonalin(R) CLA is found in such U.S. product lines as Safeway Select, GNC, Your Life, Nature's Way and Nature's Plus. These products are available in supermarkets, drug stores, health food stores and from mass merchandisers nationwide. It is also distributed in Canada, France, Italy, Spain, Japan, the Scandinavian countries and the United Kingdom.
_____________________

PW Newswire:
Two-Year Study Shows That Conjugated Linoleic Acid (CLA) Maintains Lean Body Mass and Reduced Body Fat Levels and so Promotes Healthy Weight Management.

Good news for anyone who would like to lose some excess body fat and a few inches. Research published in The Journal of Nutrition[1] confirms that taking a CLA supplement can help reduce body fat - and help keep it off - safely and effectively. Those taking part in the long-term study not only lost body fat but also maintained their lean muscle mass, which in ...

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_________________

Fish Oil=good

_________________
_________________
Gymnema Sylvestre:

Undisclosed magazine:

Previous studies done in Madras, India, have provided evidence of the hypoglycemic effects of gymnema leaves, said Dr. Shane McWhorter of the ...
_____
Townsend Letter:

A clinical trial recently conducted in the US provides further support for the use of this herb in the management of insulindependent (Type I) and non-insulin-dependent (Type II) diabetes. Of 65 patients tested over the 90-day trial, Gymnema tablets reduced mean fasting glucose levels by 11%. Average post-meal glucose levels showed a decline of 13% and HbA1c's dropped 6.8%. In a subset of patients with the poorest control, results were more substantial. Pre-meal readings averaged an 18% decline, with post-meal levels reduced by 28%. Corresponding HbA1c's declined 10 percent. Improved glucose control with Gymnema enabled 16% of the participants to decrease their prescription medication usage. (1)

The tablets used in the trial contained 400 mg of Gymnema extract (equivalent to around 4 g of leaf) standardized to 25% gymnemic acids. The dose used was two tablets per day.

_____
Glucomannan:

GLUCOMANNAN by Ray Sahelian, M.D. (natural medicine review)
Glucomannan is a dietary fiber employed quite frequently in Western countries for the past two decades. Peoples in East Asia have used this fiber for more than a thousand years. This dietary fiber is the main polysaccharide obtained from the tubers of the Amorphophallus konjac plant, a member of the family Araceae. The chemical structure of glucomannan consists, mainly, in mannose and glucose in the ratio 8:5 linked by beta (1-->4) glycosidic bonds. This soluble fiber has a extraordinarily high water holding capacity, forming highly viscous solutions when dissolved in water. It has the highest molecular weight and viscosity of any known dietary fiber. It has been demonstrated that this product is highly effective in the treatment of obesity due to the satiety sensation that it produces; as a remedy for constipation, because it increases the feces volume; as hypocholesterolemic agent, interfering in the transport of cholesterol and of bile acids and as hypoglycemic and hypoinsulinemic agent, probably, by delaying gastric emptying and slowing glucose delivery to the intestinal mucosa.
_____


Seems like these so far all have an effect to me.




Oh ok.

EJ123

It's hard to have a reason when I'm not sure whether people looked this stuff up.
Salmon Oil hm.
How long did you use it for?
True
But it most likely has different positive effects other than oat bran fiber?
I wouldn't be too sure either if I would mess with this heh.
Article:
So it does have an affect? Well then it would be best to purchase from a reputable company, no?

Alright then...no harm in taking them

Not sure if I would even try that in the first place.


That's the only article I read, and besides they just list some supplements, that's all I wanted to know.

late

When I was young and foolish ( in my forties, hehe) I subscribed to M + F.
There are (or at least were) some small publications dealing with one apsect or
other of weight training. In general.. these were way better than M + F and dealt
more with the process and not the product. The fact that the article is in M + F is a big strike against it, IMHO.

I bought a big bottle of CLA, if there was a diff I just didn't notice.
Commuting to work on my bike regularly makes a huge difference.
I really like my multi by New Chapter vitamins. I am old, and Glucosamine Sulfate helps my joints. Every time I go off I hurt. When I am touring, or training really hard, I make up a custom after exercise drink that works pretty well.

Having been done the supplement road repeatedly, here is my advice. 99% of what is out there is crap. The best thing will always be a really high qulaity multi.
https://www.new-chapter.com/product/p...&-KeyValue=154


You didn't mention what you do for training, but getting on a periodised training schedule is what will make the improvements you seek.

As far as adding muscle mass goes, that is relatively high weight and realtively low reps. I get milk protein from https://proteinfactory.com/store/prod...products_id=50
because it is cheap, and it works. At the end of the day, there is not a huge difference in proteins except post-workout when speed makes a difference.

EJ123

You know that new-chapter brand is pretty nice. Have you had any experience or maybe favor the Now Foods brand? The supplements I picked up were from that one, and Ive trusted their other products Ive gotten.
That's true about periodic training. Ever since mid June, Ive been mostly weight lifting (and biking as my aerobic) as my exercises, maybe 3-4times each week. I've been taking protein/creatine/different amino acids in this mix from a site called trueprotein.com, and recently bought more from a store. But wow that protein factory site has so much more stuff than trueprotein. Not a bad price either.

Jarery

No, i diss someone trying to promote pills instead of just eating and exercising correctly.
A suplliment is just that, to suppliment what a body is missing, usually due to poor diet.
Of all the crap you listed, the fish oil is about the only one I would consider taking. But i prefer to eat salmon instead, and i live in vancouver, salmon-a-plenty. Why take a pill?

You want to lose weight, stop looking for something that works while you sleep, learn to eat and exercise in such a way that you can sustain it, happily, for the rest of your life. I wouldnt want to rely on pills to maintain my lifestyle.

EJ123

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I dont think I was ever promoting these to begin with. Me:____

Could I have the best of diet and get everything that one should need in a day? Well a slight deficit in something probably wouldn't make a difference, but why not make up for it?

First of all, unlike the article, (which most dimiss anyways), says, it just doesnt work "while you sleep," but anytime you take it.

Even with a periodic training schedule and highly planned eating style, again, can you pefectly get everything?
There is nothing wrong, and some act like these things do nothing, squat, just a waste of money, when there are beneficial aspects of some of these supplements . Besides supplementation isn't meant to be taken the rest of someones life. You dont need the "perfect diet" to get everything, but a substantial diet that lacks a few things can easily, and from clinical trials, effectivly, can be made up from supplementation in a non addictive way. What's so bad about that?

Machka 

What is your goal? Do you want to lose weight? If so, simply get on your bicycle and RIDE!! Combine it with a bit of weightlifting, skiing, snowshoeing, running, and/or swimming for some additional benefits.

As for diet, there is no such thing as a "perfect" diet. What might be appropriate one day, might not be appropriate the next. As you become more fit, you can hear what your body is telling you ... and it will tell you what you need.

Most non-third-world diets contain way more than enough of the elements you need to function well. Everything we eat is "fortified" in some way. A bowl of cereal and glass of apple juice contains most of the vitamins we need for the day ... nevermind everything else we need for the rest of the day. Most of the supplements we take over and above our diets are simply urinated out. https://www.dietitian.com/vitamins.html

On some occasions, where we are expending a tremendous amount of energy ... to the point where our diets can't keep up with the energy expenditure (such as on long randonneuring events), some supplements are a good idea. I know that I need to take Vitamin C and calcium, for example, throughout longer randonnees, or I can end up with mouth sores and cramping. But most people don't expend that kind of energy at all, or at least not very often.

Also, just because products are considered "natural" or "herbal" or whatever doesn't necessarily mean that they are healthy. Keep in mind that what comes out of the back end of a cow is "natural"!!

I used to be a bodybuilder and so I was exposed to a whole variety of products being promoted by the gym, and by my fellow bodybuilders. Some were probably harmless enough, but I know that others were not. For example, yohimbe bark was one of the popular products at that time. Evidently it gave a person all sorts of energy which would allow the person to work out twice as long and keep them feeling energetic throughout the rest of the day as well. Canada has now banned yohimbe bark because of the negative side effects. https://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/ahc-asc/media...2006_16_e.html

I also worked in a health food store for a while and did some research on some of the products we had for sale. Taken by themselves, I think all the products were probably not harmful. Whether or not they actually had any benefits was questionable, but if people believed they did, sometimes they did. However, problems could develop if people took them in combination with other herbal products or other medications. You have to be VERY, VERY careful with things like that.
https://www.innovationmagazine.com/in...erstory3.shtml
https://www.aafp.org/afp/981001ap/zink.html
https://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/herbalmedicine.html
https://www.mayoclinic.com/health/her...ements/SA00039


Incidentally, this is the little disclaimer which Medline ( https://medlineplus.gov/ , https://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginformation.html ) and others post:

"The U.S. Food and Drug Administration does not strictly regulate herbs and supplements. There is no guarantee of strength, purity or safety of products, and effects may vary."

EJ123

Interesting articles, hm. My goal is for me not to be considered "overweight," however I love lifting weights, and thus hope to add muscle mass, instead of possible losing mass during fat loss. The only supplement Im interested in is the CLA and Gymnema Sylvestre. I'm not sure how the Gymnema Sylvestre will work, if at all. But if CLA will help maintain weight and lean muscle mass, while keeping the fat off, sounds pretty good.(Along with a constant heathly eating habit, of course) Of all though, Ill always take 1-3g of fish oils daily.

LastPlace

EJ123,

Still think you should look at Men's Health. Use those recipes, exercise a bit and the weight will come off. Oh, and disregard the supplement ads.