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Training & Nutrition Learn how to develop a training schedule that's good for you. What should you eat and drink on your ride? Learn everything you need to know about training and nutrition here.

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Old 01-19-07, 08:43 AM   #1
galen_52657
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Powertap does not lie....and what is says aint good!!!!

Since purchasing the Powertap about a month ago I can now document with the utmost accuracy my wintertime fitness decline (OH JOY!!!!)

My winter program is:

Saturday: hard group ride up to 4 hrs duration.
Sunday: easier solo or group ride or tandem ride 2-3 hours duration
Monday: off
Tuesday: Gym concentrating on legs, butt and core w/short stationary bike warm-up
Wednesday: 45 minute interval workout on trainer - 2 minutes on, 3 minutes rest w/ last interval
trying to maintain 525 watts for one minute - 8 total intervals
Thursday: same as Tuesday
Friday: off

When I look at my Wednesday workout my average power is dropping slowly but steadily and my average heart rate going up....

NOOOOOOO!

So I think I better back off on the weight workout and up the trainer workout and hopefully, with a few decent weekend rides I can reverse this trend!

PS. To any that think I should cut out the weights completely, at my age I must guard against loss of muscle mass so, no I am not going to cut them out completely 'till spring.
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Old 01-19-07, 08:55 AM   #2
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the increased HR and cranking out less watts combo is a classic sign of over-training, no? if i were you, i'd skip the tues weight session and replace it with another type of cross training session. maybe swimming or the eliptical machine, or even running/walking.
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Old 01-19-07, 09:30 AM   #3
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Back to back to back hard days is not a good thing. You need a recovery or a rest day in between the weights or intervals. You simply cannot do three hard days in a row. Muscles are built during rest, not exertion.
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Old 01-19-07, 10:24 AM   #4
branman1986
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usually lower heartrate(well, the inability to get your heartrate up) with lower watts means overtraining...if you keep what you're doing up though, you'll probably be there soon. Also high ambient/resting HR is another sign.
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Old 01-19-07, 12:22 PM   #5
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It depends upon what's overtrained. Depending upon your particular weakness and workouts, it can be either your aerobic system or muscles that's overtrained. Overdoing sprints & intervals will result in lower HR and lower power. However, overdoing tempo/hillclimbs will result in higher HR and lower power.

Looks like the 7-hours of riding on the weekend may be a bit much.
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Old 01-19-07, 02:51 PM   #6
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Quote:
It depends upon what's overtrained. Depending upon your particular weakness and workouts, it can be either your aerobic system or muscles that's overtrained. Overdoing sprints & intervals will result in lower HR and lower power. However, overdoing tempo/hillclimbs will result in higher HR and lower power.
Yes, no, sometimes.

Careful, how you discuss over training syndrome. Because it is, in fact a syndrome, a collection of various symptoms. A given symptom does not always reflect a specific malady.

Any Heart Rate that is "off-base line" for a given performance can indicate ineffective training stress. Whether the HR reading is high or low may or may not reflect different possible training adaptations.

Again, the key to understanding over training syndrome is in knowing what realistic baseline of fitness currently exists.
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Old 01-19-07, 06:34 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by galen_52657
Since purchasing the Powertap about a month ago I can now document with the utmost accuracy my wintertime fitness decline (OH JOY!!!!)

My winter program is:

Saturday: hard group ride up to 4 hrs duration.
Sunday: easier solo or group ride or tandem ride 2-3 hours duration
Monday: off
Tuesday: Gym concentrating on legs, butt and core w/short stationary bike warm-up
Wednesday: 45 minute interval workout on trainer - 2 minutes on, 3 minutes rest w/ last interval
trying to maintain 525 watts for one minute - 8 total intervals
Thursday: same as Tuesday
Friday: off

When I look at my Wednesday workout my average power is dropping slowly but steadily and my average heart rate going up....

NOOOOOOO!

So I think I better back off on the weight workout and up the trainer workout and hopefully, with a few decent weekend rides I can reverse this trend!

PS. To any that think I should cut out the weights completely, at my age I must guard against loss of muscle mass so, no I am not going to cut them out completely 'till spring.
It seems like you're not really doing much in the way of maintaining or improving your sustainable power output. Two minute intervals will help your anaerobic capacity, assuming you are hitting ~135% of your functional threshold power, but won't do much for your sustainable power output (assuming that is important to your goals).

If you want to maintain overall fitness, you could try adding some longer intervals; i.e. 2 x 20' @ 100-105% FTP, or 5 x 5' @ 113-120% FTP. And ride 4 times a week instead of just three.

BTW, FTP is the maximum power you can sustain for ~ 1hr.

FWIW, many people recommend not even touching anaerobic capacity intervals until a few weeks before your target event. Also, don't count on your group rides to help improve fitness. I discovered that shortly after getting my Powertap.
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Old 01-19-07, 06:54 PM   #8
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Two words: base miles.

You need them. You don't need to be doing hard intervals right now, especially combined with gym work.

Going hard all the time does not make you faster in the end, as you are now learning.....and will have numbers to back it up with. It makes you moderately fast and burned out after several months. If racing is your goal, then you need to restructure your training plan for next winter (kinda too late now, unless you're not going to start racing until July). If hanging with the local club is your goal, then back off the intensity and cut down on the legwork at the gym.
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Old 01-26-07, 11:59 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by GuitarWizard
Two words: base miles.

You need them. You don't need to be doing hard intervals right now, especially combined with gym work.

Going hard all the time does not make you faster in the end, as you are now learning.....and will have numbers to back it up with. It makes you moderately fast and burned out after several months. If racing is your goal, then you need to restructure your training plan for next winter (kinda too late now, unless you're not going to start racing until July). If hanging with the local club is your goal, then back off the intensity and cut down on the legwork at the gym.
+1 you need to ditch the Anaerobic Capacity workout.. if you want to do higher intensity workouts do upper L4 workouts.. most of your training this time of year should be ~95-105% FTP

also you may be suffering from dehydration and over heating from improper cooling on the trainer.. you need as powerful a fan as you can get your hands on, cool the room as much as possible and drink lots... i have two large box fans with the window open (-15C outside, 5C inside)... improper cooling can lower your power output by 20-30W.. also even when cooling is ok, note that for most people, because of the lack of inertia loading indoors power outputs indoors are usually ~10-15W lower indoors

Edit - as you use power more and more you will pay less and less attention to HR... HR fluctuates for many reasons (time of day, caffeine intake, yesterdays workout etc...) and is not really a reliable guide for training exertion...

Last edited by doctorSpoc; 01-26-07 at 12:27 PM.
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