Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 56
  1. #1
    Senior Member psycholist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    So.Illinois
    Posts
    204
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    GOT to get my HDL numbers up!

    Hey everybody.
    First off, if this is a redundant thread forgive me, and then kindly direct me to the preexisting discussion!

    When I was in my late teens my dad had his first major heart attack and then bypass. My mom has had hers now,too. When I reached my early 20s I realized that if I didn't take proactive steps then to change my lifestyle and get as fit as possible, I'd likely be having my chest split open too when I got older. It was quite a reality check but I like to think that it saved my life.
    I rediscovered a love for cycling, made smarter nutritional choices, and lost 70 pounds. My blood pressure is under control without any need of meds. In fact, the only thing I do need is an occasional ibuprofen or Tylenol. I am in better physical shape now at 36 than I was in high school.

    But you can't fight your genes.
    I saw a quote somewhere that says we are "50% genetics and 50% cheesburger"

    Well, Igot the results back from my last blood work up and my numbers are all very low--super low.
    Trouble is, my HDL-or "good" cholesterol, is 34 and my doc wants it at 36 or better. The first thing he said was "exercise" and then he remembered who he was talking to and just kinda left it at that. I play competitive volleyball three nights a week and cycle 10-25 miles DAILY regardless of season. I've been reading nutritional value labels on the back of food boxes for YEARS and make my choices accordingly. I already gobble down the olive oil, the omegas, the nuts, avoid the hydrogenated stuff etc etc etc. LOVE dark chocolate. don't smoke. Do enjoy a margarita a couple times a week but now they are saying that might even be a good thing too although I wonder......

    So I am at a loss....the need to get your HDLs up is just as critical as dropping your LDLs but I don't know of anything else I'm not already doing. I know there are statins and things available to help lower your LDL but not much yet in the way of raising the HDL.

    Any tips or ideas?
    providing a dependable source of aggravation for the motorists of Little Egypt

    "Wyatt, I am rolling."

  2. #2
    Banned. ModoVincere's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    1,628
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I think the ratios of LDL/TC and Tri/HDL are considered better predictors than just the raw numbers. Also I would imagine that the difference between 34 and 36 is within the range of lab error and not of any importance. In fact, if you had your Cholesterol retested today, I would wager that the numbers would all be different than they were on the other test.

    That said, exercise is considered the best way to raise HDL. I know you said you do a lot of exercise, but I don't see any weight lifting. You might want to try adding in a little weightlifting to your current regimen along with a little added protein to the diet to help support the weightlifting routine.

  3. #3
    Recumbent Ninja
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    2,136
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    You need to:

    1. Consume LOTS of fish oil. LOTS.
    2. Eliminate processed carbs such as bread and cereal.
    3. Oatmeal is your new friend. It's now going to replace that bread and cereal you just lost.
    4. Get a half to 1 cup veggies at each meal
    5. Eat 5-6 small meals a day.
    6. Send me money for curing you.

  4. #4
    SSP
    SSP is offline
    Software for Cyclists SSP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Redding, California
    My Bikes
    Trek 5200, Specialized MTB
    Posts
    4,618
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Niacin...it's cheap, and one of the few products that will raise HDL.

    I have a very similar family history, and have been using niacin for 10 years now to control my cholesterol. Using it, I've managed to raise my HDL into the 60-80+ range (it used to be below 40).

    There's a book available on Amazon that is all about using niacin for cholesterol control. The author's kind of "out there", but the basic advice is good.

    I buy cheap, non-time release niacin at CostCo and take 2500 mg/day (1000 in the morning, and 2500 in the evening...less than 7 cents per day!). But, don't try taking this much to start, or you'll really regret it!

    Niacin can cause a "flushing" skin reaction (you'll get red, and kind of itchy). Your body builds up a tolerance to it over time, however, allowing you to take larger doses without any effect. But, you have to take it religiously, because you can lose your tolerance quickly (within a few days). The best way to start is by taking a single 500 mg (or less) in the evening just before bed - that way the flush will happen after you're asleep (hopefully).

    It may take a few months before you can build up to higher levels, and you might not want to go as high as I have (I'm at the upper end).

    You'll also need to consult with your doc, and get liver function tests after you've been on it for a month or two to make sure you're not having any liver problems.
    CycliStats.com - Software for Cyclists
    WeightWare.com - Weight Management Software

  5. #5
    Killing Rabbits
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    4,688
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Ask your doctor about garlic, it can help, but is not completely risk free so ask first. If you give it a try, ensure you tell future health care providers you are on it just like you would any other medication.

    Lowers LDL, raises HDL in those with high total values.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum

    Prevents Calcification
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum

  6. #6
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    18
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Niacin, Resveratrol

    Niacin is the way to go. I don't take any since my HDL is 87 but the research is solid. You might also
    consider resveratrol. I have brought my HDL from 43 about 9 years ago to 87 this September and the only major change in my lifestyle/supp intake was resveratrol, alpha lipoic acid and acetyl L-carnitine. I believe it was the resveratrol that did the most. Resveratrol also makes you go faster (more on that later). Here is some good info from the New York Times a few weeks ago:

    THE CONSUMER; An Old Cholesterol Remedy Is New Again
    By MICHAEL MASON
    Perhaps you heard it? The wail last month from the labs of heart researchers and the offices of Wall Street analysts?

    Pfizer Inc., the pharmaceutical giant, halted late-stage trials of a cholesterol drug called torcetrapib after investigators discovered that it increased heart problems -- and death rates -- in the test population.

    Torcetrapib wasn't just another scientific misfire; the drug was to have been a blockbuster heralding the transformation of cardiovascular care. Statin drugs like simvastatin (sold as Zocor) and atorvastatin (Lipitor) lower blood levels of LDL, the so-called bad cholesterol, thereby slowing the buildup of plaque in the arteries.

    But torcetrapib worked primarily by increasing HDL, or good cholesterol. Among other functions, HDL carries dangerous forms of cholesterol from artery walls to the liver for excretion. The process, called reverse cholesterol transport, is thought to be crucial to preventing clogged arteries.

    Many scientists still believe that a statin combined with a drug that raises HDL would mark a significant advance in the treatment of heart disease. But for patients now at high risk of heart attack or stroke, the news is better than it sounds. An effective HDL booster already exists.

    It is niacin, the ordinary B vitamin.

    In its therapeutic form, nicotinic acid, niacin can increase HDL as much as 35 percent when taken in high doses, usually about 2,000 milligrams per day. It also lowers LDL, though not as sharply as statins do, and it has been shown to reduce serum levels of artery-clogging triglycerides as much as 50 percent. Its principal side effect is an irritating flush caused by the vitamin's dilation of blood vessels.

    Despite its effectiveness, niacin has been the ugly duckling of heart medications, an old remedy that few scientists cared to examine. But that seems likely to change.

    ''There's a great unfilled need for something that raises HDL,'' said Dr. Steven E. Nissen, a cardiologist at the Cleveland Clinic and president of the American College of Cardiology. ''Right now, in the wake of the failure of torcetrapib, niacin is really it. Nothing else available is that effective.''

    In 1975, long before statins, a landmark study of 8,341 men who had suffered heart attacks found that niacin was the only treatment among five tested that prevented second heart attacks. Compared with men on placebos, those on niacin had a 26 percent reduction in heart attacks and a 27 percent reduction in strokes. Fifteen years later, the mortality rate among the men on niacin was 11 percent lower than among those who had received placebos.

    ''Here you have a drug that was about as effective as the early statins, and it just never caught on,'' said Dr. B. Greg Brown, professor of medicine at the University of Washington in Seattle. ''It's a mystery to me. But if you're a drug company, I guess you can't make money on a vitamin.''

    By and large, research was focused on lowering LDL, and the statins proved to be remarkably effective. The drugs can slow the progress of cardiovascular disease, reducing the risk of heart attack or other adverse outcomes by 25 percent to 35 percent.

    But recent studies suggest that the addition of an HDL booster like niacin may afford still greater protection.

    After analyzing data from more than 83,000 heart patients who participated in 23 different clinical trials, researchers at the University of Washington calculated this month that a regimen that increased HDL by 30 percent and lowered LDL by 40 percent in the average patient would reduce the risk of heart attack or stroke by 70 percent. That is far more than can be achieved by reducing LDL alone.

    Other small studies have produced similarly encouraging results, but some experts caution that the data on increased HDL and heart disease are preliminary.

    Researchers at 72 sites in the United States and Canada are recruiting 3,300 heart patients for a study, led by Dr. Brown and financed by the National Institutes of Health, comparing those who take niacin and a statin with those who take only a statin. This large head-on comparison should answer many questions about the benefits of combination therapy.

    Many cardiologists see no reason to wait for the results. But niacin can be a bitter pill; in rare instances, the vitamin can cause liver damage and can impair the body's use of glucose. High doses should be taken only under a doctor's supervision.

    A more frequent side effect is flushing. It becomes less pronounced with time, and often it can be avoided by taking the pills before bed with a bit of food. Doctors also recommend starting with small doses and working up to larger ones.

    Extended-release formulations of the vitamin, taken once daily, are now available by prescription, and in many patients they produce fewer side effects. And a new Merck drug to counteract niacin-induced flushing is being tested in Britain. If it works, the company plans to bundle the drug with its own extended-release niacin and with Zocor, its popular statin.

    Until then, consider this: If it means preventing a heart attack, maybe it is better to put up with flushing than to wait for the next blockbuster.

    ''If you can just get patients to take niacin, HDL goes up substantially,'' said Dr. Nissen of the Cleveland Clinic. ''Most of the evidence suggests they'll get a benefit from that.''

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    1,941
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by aikigreg
    You need to:

    1. Consume LOTS of fish oil. LOTS.
    2. Eliminate processed carbs such as bread and cereal.
    3. Oatmeal is your new friend. It's now going to replace that bread and cereal you just lost.
    4. Get a half to 1 cup veggies at each meal
    5. Eat 5-6 small meals a day.
    6. Send me money for curing you.
    I also noticed that the poster didn't mention what kind of carbs he was eating. #2-#4 are important (as you note).
    Eric

    2005 Trek 5.2 Madone, Red with Yellow Flames (Beauty)
    199x Lemond Tourmalet, Yellow with fenders (Beast)

    Read my cycling blog at http://riderx.info/blogs/riderx
    Like climbing? Goto http://www.bicycleclimbs.com

  8. #8
    Senior Member psycholist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    So.Illinois
    Posts
    204
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    THe last three or four times I had the lipid panel done, my HDL has hovered right about the mid-low 30 mark-not much change despite my best efforts. My LDL has slowly decreased. My doc says HE would be happy to see a 36 but I would like to think I could go higher. Funny how for years and years people simply focused on the overall total and now we finally realize that the different lipids and their ratio to each other are critical .

    No way will I cut out my carbs. Processed stuff, yes, already doing that as much as possible , but I could go vegan before I could drop my beloved breads and cereals. Again, labels have a lot of trickery going on--"stone ground" doesn't mean squat in relation to the type of grains used.
    About the fish oil...I tried eating cold-water fish three times a week and it just got monotonous and I have dropped off a bit there. Do the caplets have any side effects...I mean, do you take one in the morning and walk around smelling like a hot day at the fishing pier? My mom has a big jar of the gelcaps and it reminds me of cod liver oil when you open the lid....but someone was telling me recently that there are newer more refined types available. I think the same holds true for the garlic, right? The main drawback was horrible breath.
    The niacin sounds promising, tho I wish there was a way to get a higher level of these nutrients through the food I eat. I don't put much faith in many supplements simply because a lot of them are still unregulated and scientifically untested. There are also a lot on that shelf that are totally reliable and safe to use but the trouble is knowing the difference.

    Sounds like I should ask my doc about getting on a niacin supplement, and maybe try out the fish oil caps.
    providing a dependable source of aggravation for the motorists of Little Egypt

    "Wyatt, I am rolling."

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    1,295
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by psycholist
    Hey everybody.



    But you can't fight your genes.
    I saw a quote somewhere that says we are "50% genetics and 50% cheesburger"

    Well, Igot the results back from my last blood work up and my numbers are all very low--super low.
    Trouble is, my HDL-or "good" cholesterol, is 34 and my doc wants it at 36 or better. The first thing he said was "exercise" and then he remembered who he was talking to and just kinda left it at that. I play competitive volleyball three nights a week and cycle 10-25 miles DAILY regardless of season. I've been reading nutritional value labels on the back of food boxes for YEARS and make my choices accordingly. I already gobble down the olive oil, the omegas, the nuts, avoid the hydrogenated stuff etc etc etc. LOVE dark chocolate. don't smoke. Do enjoy a margarita a couple times a week but now they are saying that might even be a good thing too although I wonder......

    So I am at a loss....the need to get your HDLs up is just as critical as dropping your LDLs but I don't know of anything else I'm not already doing. I know there are statins and things available to help lower your LDL but not much yet in the way of raising the HDL.

    Any tips or ideas?

    Suggest you get a copy of the China Study by Campbell (published in 2005). It's about $11.00 from Amazon. It's not risking much money even if you don't care for the book. You have made a tremendous amount of progress and the book will help you continue it by becoming well informed on the latest libratory experiments, human trails and population studies on the role of nutrition on heart (and cancer) problems. The scientific data is presented so you can decide how to proceed with foods suitable for your needs.

    About the only way to increase HDL for a male is strenuous exercise. The longer and more strenuous the more your HDL will rise. You seem to be exercising a lot already. You could have a high level of testosterone which tends to suppress HDL. Mine went really high (above the 45 to 50 I keep mine) when I had to take a testosterone blocking drug as part of a prostate cancer treatment. The total Cholesterol is more important than HDL/LDL . However true that statement might be, stick with your doctor's advice.

    By the way, a major topic of the China Study is the control of cholesterol. You'll see curves showing Cholesterol levels vs. heart attack rates.

    You can drive your total Cholesterol way down by dramatically reducing your intake of meat, fish, eggs and milk products and eat more like those people in the third world that don't get heart problems or at least they don't until they start eating like we do.

    Genetics plays a minor role compared to nutrition and exercise. With proper nutrition and exercise, the genetics impact is actually minimized.

    Al

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    1,295
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by psycholist

    No way will I cut out my carbs. Processed stuff, yes, already doing that as much as possible , but I could go vegan before I could drop my beloved breads and cereals. Again, labels have a lot of trickery going on--"stone ground" doesn't mean squat in relation to the type of grains used.
    About the fish oil...I tried eating cold-water fish three times a week and it just got monotonous and I have dropped off a bit there. Do the caplets have any side effects...I mean, do you take one in the morning and walk around smelling like a hot day at the fishing pier? Sounds like I should ask my doc about getting on a niacin supplement, and maybe try out the fish oil caps.

    There is a lot of confusion concerning carbs. What they really should be say is to reduce the refined carbs like white flour and the sugars, especially the High fructose corn syrup.

    Vegans eat bread, but it's whole grain. I'm not Vegan (but I only eat a little of non-plant food), and eat a lot of bread. But I won't touch a bread unless the first ingredient listed isn't whole wheat or whole oats, or whole some other grain.

    I also eat a lot of whole grain cereal. I have to buy it in the organic section to avoid high fructose corn syrup and the partially hydrogenated fats. I mix several types together for taste and buy the lower sugar varieties and avoid the high fiber ones. You don't need fiber loading if you eat fruits, vegetables and whole grains.

    Eating fish is more folklore than fact. Even the sacred Omega-3 thing is getting confusing due to recent studies showing no benefit from them. I do like anchovies and sardines once in a while. They are low on the food chain so they don't accumulate the murcury.

    Al

  11. #11
    umd
    umd is offline
    Banned umd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Santa Barbara, CA
    My Bikes
    Specialized Tarmac SL2, Specialized Tarmac SL, Giant TCR Composite, Specialized StumpJumper Expert HT
    Posts
    28,343
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I've never really understood the cholesterol numbers. The last time I had my blood tested, my HDL was 90 and my LDL was 109, for a chol/hdlc ratio of 2.4. The references ranges were >= 40 for HDL, < 130 for LDL, and < 5.0 for the ratio, so it looks like I'm good despite a high TOTAL cholesterol of 214. The triglycerides were 73...

  12. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    1,295
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by umd
    I've never really understood the cholesterol numbers. The last time I had my blood tested, my HDL was 90 and my LDL was 109, for a chol/hdlc ratio of 2.4. The references ranges were >= 40 for HDL, < 130 for LDL, and < 5.0 for the ratio, so it looks like I'm good despite a high TOTAL cholesterol of 214. The triglycerides were 73...
    With a 214 total Cholesterol, you need to be on a Statin. Provachol, one of the first and the most tested, is the safest and is as effective as those hyped on the media.

    Cholesterol comes from two sources: what the body makes and what you eat. What the body makes is more than sufficient. All animal products (including fish, fowl and milk products) have major amounts of Cholesterol. Plant products have none. By severally reducing the intake of animal products you can make big reductions in Cholesterol. My son in-law dropped his by nearly 40 points in just two months just last year.

    If you want the scientific basis for this, get the China Study by Campbell ($11.00 at Amazon). The book is not a self-help book, it just presents the scientific results of lab tests, human trials and population studies (which all agree) that indicate why the rich western world get an order of magnitude more heart attacks and cancers than the rural developing world; at least until those folks migrate to the US or Europe.

    By the way, the rate of heart attacks in this country are as high as they ever were. What has dropped and is reported in the media is the death rate from heart attacks. The medical system is better at treating them, but we have made zero progress in preventing them.

    I decided 40 years ago when I developed high blood pressure to not have a heart attack in the first place and to do it with out drugs. So far so good.

    Al

  13. #13
    Recumbent Ninja
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    2,136
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by psycholist
    No way will I cut out my carbs. Processed stuff, yes, already doing that as much as possible , but I could go vegan before I could drop my beloved breads and cereals. Again, labels have a lot of trickery going on--"stone ground" doesn't mean squat in relation to the type of grains used.
    About the fish oil...I tried eating cold-water fish three times a week and it just got monotonous and I have dropped off a bit there. Do the caplets have any side effects...I mean, do you take one in the morning and walk around smelling like a hot day at the fishing pier? My mom has a big jar of the gelcaps and it reminds me of cod liver oil when you open the lid....but someone was telling me recently that there are newer more refined types available. I think the same holds true for the garlic, right? The main drawback was horrible breath.
    .
    Well, until you're really and truly ready to make some dietary changes, don't expect much to change in your health.

    Fish oil caps are fine, but you will get fishy tasting burps. I prefer Carlson's Fish oil with Lemon Flavoring. It's straight oil - not caps. The lemon extract makes it very flavorful. Fish oil should never smell fishy - that means it's substandard. I take the fish oil and make salad dressing with it, put it in protein shakes, or just spoon it down. It's quite tasty.

  14. #14
    umd
    umd is offline
    Banned umd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Santa Barbara, CA
    My Bikes
    Specialized Tarmac SL2, Specialized Tarmac SL, Giant TCR Composite, Specialized StumpJumper Expert HT
    Posts
    28,343
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Al.canoe
    With a 214 total Cholesterol, you need to be on a Statin. Provachol, one of the first and the most tested, is the safest and is as effective as those hyped on the media.
    See, that's what I don't understand; my doctor was unconcerned since my triglycerides and LDL were fairly low and my total was only high because my HDL was through the roof. I also don't have any other risk factors except being male...

  15. #15
    Senor Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    464
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by umd
    See, that's what I don't understand; my doctor was unconcerned since my triglycerides and LDL were fairly low and my total was only high because my HDL was through the roof. I also don't have any other risk factors except being male...
    Your Dr. probably knows that since your HDL is high there is no need to put you on drugs. As well, the ratio is more telling than the actual numbers. OF course, if you are really concerned you should ask doc for an explanation.

    According to Fishbach (2004) "Another method for assessing CAD/CHF risk is by calculation the LDL/HDL ratio"

    They go on to say:
    A low risk is a ratio of 1, and an average risk is a ratio of 3.55.

    Yours is 1.21. Maybe this is what your Doc looked at and this is why he feels it is not a big deal.

    Fishbach (2004) goes on to say that an HDL of >75 indicates no risk of CHD and this is also associated with longevity.

    If you think about it, if the only factor for determining CAD risk was total cholesterol why would there be a need to look at both HDL and LDL?

    Fishbach, F. (2004) A Manual of Labratory and Diagnostic Tests. (7th ed.) Philadelphia: Lippincot, Williams, and Wilkins.

  16. #16
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    1,295
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by umd
    See, that's what I don't understand; my doctor was unconcerned since my triglycerides and LDL were fairly low and my total was only high because my HDL was through the roof. I also don't have any other risk factors except being male...
    Yup, I understand the problem. But the evidence is that your cholesterol is way too high. The average Cholesterol among those populations that are relatively immune to heart attacks is in the 120's. In controlled human trials, folks with badly clogged arteries have had them unblock when their Cholesterols were reduced to that level. When those folks in the 120's adopt the US/Euro diet, their Cholesterols shoot up and they get heart attacks at about the same rate as we do.

    I learned 40 years ago at age 26 that doctors are not trained in prevention, but only in repair. My doctor back then wrote me a prescription for my high blood pressure. I said, if I take a drug now, what are you gong to do for me when I'm 40 and it's worse? He said not to worry about it.

    I tore up the prescription and put into his coat pocket. I later got a new doctor that had worked with Kenneth Cooper who later became the aerobics Guru. Went home and did some reading and started Jogging. Cured my high blood pressure in two months. That drug he wanted to give me was determined 10 years later to be a carcinogen. I know as a friend of mine was on it.

    Another friend of mine on high blood pressure medication started cycling a lot. In three months he started getting faint. They had to take him off his blood pressure medication. His blood pressure was too low. This was about 6-months ago. Not much has changed in 40 years. Doctors are not trained in physical fitness, nutrition (they get their literature in medical school from the dairy and meat industries) and lifestyle issues.

    Get the China Study, you'll completely understand as I finally did. You'll also understand why what you read in the media is so confusing and contradictory.

    Al

  17. #17
    Banned. Turboem1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Long Island
    My Bikes
    Lemond Reno
    Posts
    883
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by aikigreg
    You need to:


    2. Eliminate processed carbs such as bread and cereal.
    3. Oatmeal is your new friend. It's now going to replace that bread and cereal you just lost.
    I am confused on this. Is oatmeal not a processed carb? Also for the people saying they eat bread but it is whole wheat or whole grain or whole oat. What is the difference and why is one good and one not? I have pretty much cut bread out of my diet (and i dont really miss it to much) but a slice or 2 every now and then would be nice.

  18. #18
    Recumbent Ninja
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    2,136
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Turboem1
    I am confused on this. Is oatmeal not a processed carb? Also for the people saying they eat bread but it is whole wheat or whole grain or whole oat. What is the difference and why is one good and one not? I have pretty much cut bread out of my diet (and i dont really miss it to much) but a slice or 2 every now and then would be nice.

    Depends on what kind you buy. Steel cut oats are the whole oat. other oats like Quaker Quick cook have some of the outer hull removed but are mostly intact. They are then rolled flat and cooked a bit so that they be quickly cooked by you. This isn't much processing overall. The sugary packet stuff OTOH, is even more processed and has chemicals added.

    White bread on the other hand has all the healthy stuff removed, then the grain is ground to dust and bleached. Then coloring and vitamins are artificially added. Adding brown coloring makes it "wheat bread." Sometimes a small amount of "whole grain" is added to get an aproved label, but it's still processed to hell. You want the label to read "Only 100% whole wheat or whole grain" if you're going to eat it.

    White bread has the same insulin effect as table sugar. Others vary on that scale based on the amount of whole grain.

    Label laws come from the FDA and USDA. I no longer believe these agencies are exactly concerned for my health.

    Nearly 100% of my carbs now come from whole food - veggies and fruits. I have had no digestion issues or severe allergy reactions since then, and I haven't been sick once. I used to get 4 bouts of bronchitis a year and other things besides. I'm a big believer now.

  19. #19
    Senior Member psycholist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    So.Illinois
    Posts
    204
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I need to add one detail to my personal profile....I'm female, and I understand that gender plays a big role in how your lipid mechanism works. Even down to the symptoms we have when experiencing a cardiac attack.

    "Vegans eat bread, but it's whole grain. I'm not Vegan (but I only eat a little of non-plant food), and eat a lot of bread. But I won't touch a bread unless the first ingredient listed isn't whole wheat or whole oats, or whole some other grain."

    sorry-what I meant here is that it would be easier for me to totally give up all meat (which would be tough enough) than to forgo the breads. I don't go nuts in the bread section but it's just a much-loved food group.

    I got to thinking about the actual numbers yesterday and decided to call the doc and write them down, along with their preferred ranges. When we initially went over them in the office we really just focused on the HDL and I realized I didn't have the info down for my own personal consideration.
    Here's what I got:

    HDL =46 (I swear I heard a different number in his office but this is the official number on the sheet)
    and the range is 35-65. I am guessing the reason he wants my HDLs up, up UP is because he knows both of my parents and sees any potential for improvement there as life insurance....

    LDL=91 <100 optimal
    Triglyc=42 32-200 acceptable
    total chol=145 range <200

    I am 5'11 and my weight hovers about the 166 lb mark. I have areas that I'd love to see tone up, like anybody else, but weight isn't an issue here. It's like the rail thin guy walking around only he's quietly harboring a total cholesterol of 325. Outward appearances can be deceptive.

    My doc said he has issues with the niacin debate given the potential for liver damage...but the fish oil notion was ok if I wanted to give it a try.

    What is the best dosing rate......I will have to reread some of the posts because I think we already covered that.
    providing a dependable source of aggravation for the motorists of Little Egypt

    "Wyatt, I am rolling."

  20. #20
    Banned. ModoVincere's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    1,628
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Unless you have another risk factor which you have not shared with us, I see nothing in those numbers to be worried about. Would it be nice to have higher HDL? sure. Is it necessary? I would not say that it is.

    I would resuggest that you consider some weight lifting and adding protein to your diet. Cholesterol is carried through body by lipo-proteins. You most likely have no shortage of lipids in your body or in your diet, but based on the description you gave of your diet I would suggest more protein.

  21. #21
    SSP
    SSP is offline
    Software for Cyclists SSP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Redding, California
    My Bikes
    Trek 5200, Specialized MTB
    Posts
    4,618
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by psycholist
    My doc said he has issues with the niacin debate given the potential for liver damage.
    FWIW, I've been taking niacin for 10 years, with my doc's knowledge and support. It's made a big difference in my lipid profile (especially, by boosting the HDL - one of the few substances that does that).

    I get yearly blood work done, that includes a liver function test...but this precaution is recommended for anyone taking statins too (or, any drug that works on the liver).

    As for family history...my dad died at age 47 . I'm currently 54, and my goal is to double his lifespan, to bring up the family average.
    CycliStats.com - Software for Cyclists
    WeightWare.com - Weight Management Software

  22. #22
    Senor Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    464
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by psycholist
    Sounds like I should ask my doc about getting on a niacin supplement, and maybe try out the fish oil caps.
    I was just reading something interesting about fish oil and niacin, in particular the role of omega 3 and 6 in combination with niacin.

    Omega 3 reduces swelling in the inflammatory response, and Omega 6 enhances swelling. Initially they both compete for the same enzyme Delta-5-desaturase, but then the pathways diverge from that point on. In the inflammation reduction pathway that omega 3 oils follow, and in combination with zinc, niacin and vit. C, the pathway eventually produces leukotrienes and prostaglandin types that will reduce inflammation.

    When omega 6 fats are metabolised their metabolites will eventually produce leukotrienes and prostaglandin types that enhance inflammation, and in some cases will also reduce inflammation.

    If the diet is high in omega 3 they will out compete omega 6 for the D5d, and there will be less enzyme for the inflammation pathway. In effect, this will prevent cells from sticking to arteries, increase nitric oxide production, which causes vasoconstriction that lowers blood pressure, stabilise plaques, as well as other responses that lead to more compliant arteries thus halting or lessening atherosclerosis.

    It appears that there are a lot of things that can be done, like eating a diet that is varied in foods that are minimally processed. Someone here has said before, that when you do groceries you should shop the perimeter.

  23. #23
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    18
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    With a 214 total Cholesterol, you need to be on a Statin. Provachol, one of the first and the most tested, is the safest and is as effective as those hyped on the media.
    I don't think so. Your risk of CHD is very low. My Total cholesterol is 221 but with my HDL at 87 and low trig at 65 my risk of CHD is very low. Another test you can get is a LDL Phenotype test. If you have a type A phenotype as I do (LDL particle diameter >268 Angstoms) your risk of CHD is even lower. Large LDL particle size means it won't penetrate the blood vessel walls. From Wikipedia:
    There has also been noted a correspondence between higher triglyceride levels and higher levels of smaller, denser LDL particles and alternately lower triglyceride levels and higher levels of the larger, less dense LDL
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_density_lipoprotein

    My guess is you have type A LDL and you have nothing to worry about. High HDL levels are very desirable and correlate nicely with extended lifespans.
    "It has been recognized for many years that high HDL is associated
    with lower risk of heart disease, and the National Cholesterol
    Education Program has recommended that an HDL level of less than *35
    mg/dl should be regarded as a risk factor. In people lucky enough to
    have a very high HDL (85 or more) the risk of heart disease remains
    less than half the average level even when the LDL is quite high
    (220)."
    "In the United States, men's average HDL is about 45 and women's is
    55. HDL under 40 is an especially bad sign, while anything over 60 is
    considered good. Studies suggest that each single point of increase in
    HDL is matched by a 2 percent to 3 percent reduction in heart
    disease."
    http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=388222

  24. #24
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    1,295
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by psycholist
    I need to add one detail to my personal profile....I'm female, and I understand that gender plays a big role in how your lipid mechanism works. Even down to the symptoms we have when experiencing a cardiac attack.

    it would be easier for me to totally give up all meat (which would be tough enough) than to forgo the breads. I don't go nuts in the bread section but it's just a much-loved food group.


    HDL =46 (I swear I heard a different number in his office but this is the official number on the sheet)
    and the range is 35-65. I am guessing the reason he wants my HDLs up, up UP is because he knows both of my parents and sees any potential for improvement there as life insurance....

    LDL=91 <100 optimal
    Triglyc=42 32-200 acceptable
    total chol=145 range <200

    I am 5'11 and my weight hovers about the 166 lb mark. I have areas that I'd love to see tone up, like anybody else, but weight isn't an issue here. It's like the rail thin guy walking around only he's quietly harboring a total cholesterol of 325. Outward appearances can be deceptive.

    My doc said he has issues with the niacin debate given the potential for liver damage...but the fish oil notion was ok if I wanted to give it a try.

    What is the best dosing rate......I will have to reread some of the posts because I think we already covered that.

    You maybe somewhat overweight unless you have a large muscle mass. Everything else looks outstanding. It appears that the overweight thing's impact on health is not well understood. Some research says it's really bad, other indicates not so bad.

    One good thing about the China Study is it gives you curves so you can assess risk. So if you don't want to go "cold turkey" or "cold ham" on meat, you can choose how much you are willing to eat and see what that does to the risk of a heart attack or cancer. Of course these are population averages, so it's not your personal, individual risk.

    Even the USDA's 2005 nutrition guidline which replaced the so-called food pyrimid reccomends 8 or 9 servings of fruits and vegitables a day and meats in 3 oz portions, not the huge quantities ( Conehead "mass quantities") that folks eat today. Try tapering off. I did so for a few decades before I went to nearly zero.

    I personnally wouldn't do Niacin. It's dealing with the symptoms and not the cause and I'm very carefull in what non-natural stuff I injest. There are very few supplements that are tested for negative consequences for near-term much less for long-term consequences.

    By the way, I ask for copies of all lab tests and keep them in my records.

    Al

  25. #25
    Banned. ModoVincere's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    1,628
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by !!Comatoa$ted
    I was just reading something interesting about fish oil and niacin, in particular the role of omega 3 and 6 in combination with niacin.

    Omega 3 reduces swelling in the inflammatory response, and Omega 6 enhances swelling. Initially they both compete for the same enzyme Delta-5-desaturase, but then the pathways diverge from that point on. In the inflammation reduction pathway that omega 3 oils follow, and in combination with zinc, niacin and vit. C, the pathway eventually produces leukotrienes and prostaglandin types that will reduce inflammation.

    When omega 6 fats are metabolised their metabolites will eventually produce leukotrienes and prostaglandin types that enhance inflammation, and in some cases will also reduce inflammation.

    If the diet is high in omega 3 they will out compete omega 6 for the D5d, and there will be less enzyme for the inflammation pathway. In effect, this will prevent cells from sticking to arteries, increase nitric oxide production, which causes vasoconstriction that lowers blood pressure, stabilise plaques, as well as other responses that lead to more compliant arteries thus halting or lessening atherosclerosis.

    It appears that there are a lot of things that can be done, like eating a diet that is varied in foods that are minimally processed. Someone here has said before, that when you do groceries you should shop the perimeter.
    I see someone has been reading up on eicosanoid production.
    A quick summation is this: Arachidonic acid and EPA compete for the D5D pathway. Arachdonic acid can be found in substantial quantities in red meats and egg yolks. EPA can be found in substantial quantities in cold water fish such as Salmon. In addition, Arachadonic acid can be created in the body from Omega 6 oils (vegetable oils). Arachadonic acid produces pro-inflamatory eicosanoids while EPA produces eicosanoids that are anti inflammatory in some cases, but in most cases are simply far less biologiacally active than their Arachadonic acid counterparts.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •