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Training & Nutrition Learn how to develop a training schedule that's good for you. What should you eat and drink on your ride? Learn everything you need to know about training and nutrition here.

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Old 02-15-07, 11:08 AM   #1
heflix455
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Wow, just cut bread out of my diet...

Ive been doing quite a bit of training this year (want to finish some Olympic length triathlons). 3 Bike rides, 3 runs, 3 swim sessions, and 2 sessions in the gym. I couldn't figure out why i am not getting cut like i used to 3-4 years ago (i am 23 and i got a little pudgy with school/work). My favorite snack is a peanut butter and honey sandwich with some nice whole grain bread (the kind of bread that hurts your teeth biting into the grains ). I only cut bread out of my diet recently (still eat rice, potatoes, oatmeal, steel cut oats, nuts, etc) and then within a couple of weeks i could see my abs again. Cutting out bread was the only thing i really changed in my diet. Does bread really affect your body fat percentage that much?
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Old 02-15-07, 12:03 PM   #2
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depends on the type of bread but, yeah, it makes a difference.
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Old 02-15-07, 12:53 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heflix455
Ive been doing quite a bit of training this year (want to finish some Olympic length triathlons). 3 Bike rides, 3 runs, 3 swim sessions, and 2 sessions in the gym. I couldn't figure out why i am not getting cut like i used to 3-4 years ago (i am 23 and i got a little pudgy with school/work). My favorite snack is a peanut butter and honey sandwich with some nice whole grain bread (the kind of bread that hurts your teeth biting into the grains ). I only cut bread out of my diet recently (still eat rice, potatoes, oatmeal, steel cut oats, nuts, etc) and then within a couple of weeks i could see my abs again. Cutting out bread was the only thing i really changed in my diet. Does bread really affect your body fat percentage that much?

So you are still eating peanut butter and honey? That whole grain bread can be really calorie dense. Couple that with some high fat PB and pure sugar honey and you are just asking to be fat. Go and measure the PB, the honey, and bread, and calculate the calories. You will be shocked.

I did it for some generic whole grain bread with 4 tbs of PB and 2 tbs of honey. The total is 642 calories and 34 grams of fat. If you ate that every day, that is over 4400 calories a week. Two days worth of food!!!
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Old 02-15-07, 01:25 PM   #4
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It definitely makes you think about what you eat.
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Old 02-15-07, 01:26 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by slowandsteady
So you are still eating peanut butter and honey? That whole grain bread can be really calorie dense. Couple that with some high fat PB and pure sugar honey and you are just asking to be fat. Go and measure the PB, the honey, and bread, and calculate the calories. You will be shocked.

I did it for some generic whole grain bread with 4 tbs of PB and 2 tbs of honey. The total is 642 calories and 34 grams of fat. If you ate that every day, that is over 4400 calories a week. Two days worth of food!!!
the bread is around 90 calories per slice with natural peanut butter. Really light but not that cheap "mutli-grain" stuff (lots of flax etc). I made up the peanut butter with almonds, raisins, and cranberries and a nature valley nut/fruit bar. I know there is a caloric difference but i don't think there is that much of a difference to make up for the difference in my body fat %age. Ive been doing almost the same thing for a long time and ive been satisfied with my aerobic/anaerobic increases in performance but i have not seen much of a difference in body fat until now.
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Old 02-15-07, 01:48 PM   #6
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Gotta watch those carbs. I quit carbs when I don't get to ride as much as I want.
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Old 02-15-07, 01:50 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heflix455
the bread is around 90 calories per slice with natural peanut butter. Really light but not that cheap "mutli-grain" stuff (lots of flax etc). I made up the peanut butter with almonds, raisins, and cranberries and a nature valley nut/fruit bar. I know there is a caloric difference but i don't think there is that much of a difference to make up for the difference in my body fat %age. Ive been doing almost the same thing for a long time and ive been satisfied with my aerobic/anaerobic increases in performance but i have not seen much of a difference in body fat until now.

90 calories a slice!!! Those nature valley granola bars have a ton of fat and calories also. You need to read the labels. Your increases in performance and body fat don't have anything to do with each other. You can be very fit yet be fat. You can also have a very low body fat % and not be able to climb a flight of stairs.

If you were maintaining before, then cut out 180 calories a day. That is 5580 calories a month or 1.6 lbs of body fat. But I suspect you cut out more than that and just don't realize it.

Are you measuring the peanut butter? The typical serving size is 2 tbs, but that is a very, very thin layer of PB on a slice of bread.
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Old 02-15-07, 03:03 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by slowandsteady
90 calories a slice!!! Those nature valley granola bars have a ton of fat and calories also. You need to read the labels. Your increases in performance and body fat don't have anything to do with each other. You can be very fit yet be fat. You can also have a very low body fat % and not be able to climb a flight of stairs.

If you were maintaining before, then cut out 180 calories a day. That is 5580 calories a month or 1.6 lbs of body fat. But I suspect you cut out more than that and just don't realize it.

Are you measuring the peanut butter? The typical serving size is 2 tbs, but that is a very, very thin layer of PB on a slice of bread.
it was a pretty thin layer of peanut butter. I probably did cut out more calories than i think but the shock was just how fast my body fat percentage has gone down just after cutting that out of my diet made me stop for a minute and try to figure out whats going on. I do enjoy chocolate, pepperoni sticks, etc for snacks as well so i thought maybe the bread was causing my body to store more fat than usual.
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Old 02-15-07, 06:53 PM   #9
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a calorie is not a calorie. dropping 180 calories per day of other stuff (protein for example) isn't as effective for weight loss as something as high on the insulin index as white bread. You managed your body's response to food and that is what made the difference.

I could eat 2000 cals a day and maintain my weight. I can also eat 4000 cals a day and maintain my weight - the difference is in WHICH foods I use to maintain. Once you figure that out you're golden.
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Old 02-15-07, 10:56 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aikigreg
a calorie is not a calorie. dropping 180 calories per day of other stuff (protein for example) isn't as effective for weight loss as something as high on the insulin index as white bread. You managed your body's response to food and that is what made the difference.

I could eat 2000 cals a day and maintain my weight. I can also eat 4000 cals a day and maintain my weight - the difference is in WHICH foods I use to maintain. Once you figure that out you're golden.
thats sort of what I slowly have been finding out about my body. I get pretty lean (within reason) if i just eat clean fruits, veggies, and meat but i start to pack it on when i add more than the occasional donut/chocolate bar.
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Old 02-17-07, 10:13 PM   #11
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Buying real peanut butter (peanuts only) will help, as it cuts down and sugar/trans fat.
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Old 02-24-07, 03:54 AM   #12
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read the book "dangerous grains"
I used to have gluten intolerance also. BTW, you should also abstain from oats.

Jacob Vickery
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Old 02-25-07, 07:43 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by jacob
read the book "dangerous grains"
I used to have gluten intolerance also. BTW, you should also abstain from oats.

Jacob Vickery
That's interesting as I have read that oats is one of the best foods there is.
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Old 03-13-07, 12:46 PM   #14
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That's interesting as I have read that oats is one of the best foods there is.
yeah, i was under the impression that oats were good too.
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Old 03-13-07, 03:19 PM   #15
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I eat a loaf of whole grain bread in about five days. I also eat near whole grain rice (germ intact), bulgur, pasta and other grains as well.

I'm still dropping pounds. And I'm always hungry. And I'm always eating.

Ride lots.
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Old 03-13-07, 03:20 PM   #16
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Carefull with the honey.
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Old 03-13-07, 05:03 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by aikigreg
I could eat 2000 cals a day and maintain my weight. I can also eat 4000 cals a day and maintain my weight - the difference is in WHICH foods I use to maintain. Once you figure that out you're golden.
Just to clarify, are you claiming that you can eat 4000 calories a day and be above your daily caloric requirements BUT maintain your weight? Because if you are, you're wrong.
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Old 03-18-07, 10:54 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowandsteady

I did it for some generic whole grain bread with 4 tbs of PB and 2 tbs of honey. The total is 642 calories and 34 grams of fat. If you ate that every day, that is over 4400 calories a week. Two days worth of food!!!
Heh... I burn between 1,800 & 5,500 calories everytime I get on my bike & ride... I eat like a freakin horse and I'm still losing 1 to 1.5 pounds a week. I'm down to 179 pounds and my goal is 165-168... No way I could survive on *only* 2200 calories a day!!!!

If you are riding regularly, especially getting your heart rate in the "fat burn zone" it almost doesn't matter what you eat, as long as you are eating alot of complex carbs... I'm on the 60-25-15 (percentage of carbs/protein/fat).... and it works well.....

I guess most people don't ride 250+ miles a week like me but....

I actually gained a few pounds (most likely muscle) when I started back up riding regularly (it was a little dissapointing) but I think that is because I had to stop riding for 2 months due to illness (and yes, I dropped weight even when I wasn't riding).

If you want my advise to get lean, your best bet would be to cut 500 calories a day and do a bunch of base miles (stay aerobic).
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Old 03-18-07, 11:51 AM   #19
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How many calories you burn depends on a lot of factors. You and I could ride the same amount at the sameintensity, yet maintenance calories for me might be a thousand cals less because my metabolism burns less through the day, or I have less muscle mass, or any of a number of things.

I can eat that many calories, but if I eat 60% carbs I'd easily gain a pound of fat roughy every 4 days, and I ride close to the same number of miles. Switch me to the same amount of calories but make is 50%PRO 30% fat and 20% CHO and I burn a pound of fat a week.

Your bodytype is obviously a "hardgainer" since you lose weight doing nothing and eating normal calorie intake. You're a lucky guy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZXiMan
Heh... I burn between 1,800 & 5,500 calories everytime I get on my bike & ride... I eat like a freakin horse and I'm still losing 1 to 1.5 pounds a week. I'm down to 179 pounds and my goal is 165-168... No way I could survive on *only* 2200 calories a day!!!!

If you are riding regularly, especially getting your heart rate in the "fat burn zone" it almost doesn't matter what you eat, as long as you are eating alot of complex carbs... I'm on the 60-25-15 (percentage of carbs/protein/fat).... and it works well.....

I guess most people don't ride 250+ miles a week like me but....

I actually gained a few pounds (most likely muscle) when I started back up riding regularly (it was a little dissapointing) but I think that is because I had to stop riding for 2 months due to illness (and yes, I dropped weight even when I wasn't riding).

If you want my advise to get lean, your best bet would be to cut 500 calories a day and do a bunch of base miles (stay aerobic).
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Old 03-18-07, 02:17 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aikigreg
How many calories you burn depends on a lot of factors. You and I could ride the same amount at the sameintensity, yet maintenance calories for me might be a thousand cals less because my metabolism burns less through the day, or I have less muscle mass, or any of a number of things.

I can eat that many calories, but if I eat 60% carbs I'd easily gain a pound of fat roughy every 4 days, and I ride close to the same number of miles. Switch me to the same amount of calories but make is 50%PRO 30% fat and 20% CHO and I burn a pound of fat a week.

Your bodytype is obviously a "hardgainer" since you lose weight doing nothing and eating normal calorie intake. You're a lucky guy.
There must be something I'm missing here. 250 miles/week equates to about a century/week plus 5 training rides averaging 30 miles. I can easily ride 30 miles without eating or drinking and, if I keep it down in zone 2, don't even need a recovery drink in order to do the same thing the next day. But on a century, I would be shocked to see you keep up with the fast riders, the ones who will try to break your legs and heart on every climb, and last more than 50 miles on that diet. I don't personally know a single competitive sport or racing rider who eats like that.

Now it is true that when one eats insufficient carbohydrates for the body's energy needs and has protein that can be gotten at, whether in the diet or in the muscles, the body simply converts the protein to glucose.

"The amount of glucose that can be synthesized from a protein depends on its amino acid (AA) composition. This value is about 60 g from 100 g of liver or muscle protein and is based on a knowledge of the total AA content and the proportion of each AA that can be converted to pyruvate."
http://jpen.aspenjournals.org/cgi/co...stract/4/5/487

So there's a 40% calorie loss between the protein ingested and the glucose required to operate the body. IOW, if you ate nothing but protein you could eat 40% more calories and not gain weight. However the process to convert protein to glucose is slower than carbohydrate to glucose, which is why a protein eater can't keep up with riders who are eating nothing but carbs.

There's also the issue of the strain on the kidneys which have to eliminate the waste products from the excess protein to glucose conversion, though that seems mostly connected to eating large amounts of animal protein. Here's an interesting link:
http://www.benbest.com/health/kidney.html

Note this quote: "The kind of dietary protein may also be important. Subjects fed 90 grams of meat protein daily showed a significantly greater increase in GFR (stress on the kidney) than was seen for subjects fed 90 grams of milk protein [CLIN. NEPHROL. 27(2):71-75 (1987)]. By contrast, a study with whey protein [NAHRUNG 42(1):12-15 (1998)] showed no significant effects on liver or kidney function."

Still, I can't see how being able to eat more without gaining weight equates to either better health or better performance on the bike.

The OP noted that he cut down on calories and that reduced his body fat. No kidding. However, if he reduces his carbos too much he will have trouble with training as the length and intensity of his bricks increase.

Last edited by Carbonfiberboy; 03-18-07 at 02:37 PM.
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