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  1. #1
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    point of tempo/ LT work?

    whats the point of tempo/ LT work are they even the same thing, riding at 80% for 4 hours on your own what is that helping, does it raise your Lactic Threshold, what is that anyways and how does it make me ride faster?

    Also should this ride make my legs hurt or what?

    Anyone want to give an example of a tempo ride for me?

  2. #2
    just another gosling Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
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    For me, 80% of MHR is a few beats over my double century pace. It doesn't make my legs hurt. But if I average 85% for a metric century, my legs will definitely be hurting. 80% of MHR is a good pace. It will help you build endurance. It won't raise your LT, or increase your power particularly. But you need to ride at that pace a lot, because endurance is the name of the game. I do endurance (base miles) at that pace outdoors, and 10 beats below that when riding indoors on the rollers.

    In my training vocabulary, Tempo ride means only one thing: long "intervals" at low cadence and high effort, which increase power output. Say 70-75 cadence and 90% of LT plus 5 beats. Most others here call Tempo riding anything at LT or below. My LT is 92% of MHR, but I'm ancient and well-trained. Yours may be at a different percentage. Doing 15 to 20 minute intervals at LT will have quite an effect on your riding pace.

  3. #3
    Isaias NoRacer's Avatar
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    Coggan defines the power and HR zones, as well as perceived effort, here:

    http://www.cyclingpeakssoftware.com/power411/levels.asp

    Scroll down to Table 1 for a summary.
    2009 mileage = 14,738 miles; 2010 mileage = 15,234 miles; 2011 mileage = 17,344 miles; 2012 mileage = 11,414 miles; 2013 = 12,169

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    Isaias NoRacer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoRacer
    Coggan defines the power and HR zones, as well as perceived effort, here:

    http://www.cyclingpeakssoftware.com/power411/levels.asp

    Scroll down to Table 1 for a summary.
    The point of training at or just above Lactate Threshold is to increase your Lactate Threshold, because:

    1 - This is one of the easiest parameters to train and increase as you get older, even in the face of declining VO2Max due to age.

    2 - It helps increase efficiency over age

    3 - One of the most, if not the most, important parameters in increasing endurance performance
    2009 mileage = 14,738 miles; 2010 mileage = 15,234 miles; 2011 mileage = 17,344 miles; 2012 mileage = 11,414 miles; 2013 = 12,169

  5. #5
    bzzzz fuzzthebee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoRacer
    Coggan defines the power and HR zones, as well as perceived effort, here:

    http://www.cyclingpeakssoftware.com/power411/levels.asp

    Scroll down to Table 1 for a summary.
    Actually, Table 2 provides a good summary of the benefits of training at each level.

    For tempo, or L3 one of the main benefits would be increased muscle glycogen storage. This is training at 76-90% of functional threshold power, or 84-94% functional threshold heart rate. Typically 1-3 hrs in duration.

    I can say from experience that 3 hrs at 85-90% FTP is a most challenging workout. Your legs will hurt by the last hour.

  6. #6
    just another gosling Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fuzzthebee
    For tempo, or L3 one of the main benefits would be increased muscle glycogen storage. This is training at 76-90% of functional threshold power, or 84-94% functional threshold heart rate. Typically 1-3 hrs in duration.

    I can say from experience that 3 hrs at 85-90% FTP is a most challenging workout. Your legs will hurt by the last hour.
    +1. My average HR for my last metric century was 91% of LT. I was a tired boy, spinning itty bitty gears by the finish, 3:50 RT, 4:05 ET. But I had a heck of a group ride the next day. LT power was very high and endurance not too bad as long as I kept up a good spin. Looking forward to a good season. So yeah, that sort of riding will definitely make you faster, right now.

    What did Lance say? "I do it for the pain." Something like that. And who said, "You put pain in the bank, so you can make withdrawals when you need to?"

  7. #7
    Isaias NoRacer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fuzzthebee
    Actually, Table 2 provides a good summary of the benefits of training at each level.
    Yup, those are the benefits, but for performance, Tempo takes a back seat to Lactate Threshold.
    2009 mileage = 14,738 miles; 2010 mileage = 15,234 miles; 2011 mileage = 17,344 miles; 2012 mileage = 11,414 miles; 2013 = 12,169

  8. #8
    OM boy cyclezen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by recneps
    whats the point of tempo/ LT work are they even the same thing, riding at 80% for 4 hours on your own what is that helping, does it raise your Lactic Threshold, what is that anyways and how does it make me ride faster?
    Also should this ride make my legs hurt or what?
    Anyone want to give an example of a tempo ride for me?
    here's an excerpt from cyclingnews.com - from Dave Palese:
    "I'm not totally clear as to how long you were away from the sport, but the idea would still be the same.
    1) Don't dive whole hog back into hard, specific training. Spend at least eight weeks of training focusing on the aerobic system. Long steady miles is the idea here. You'll increase your aerobic output and muscular endurance. The riding should be done at an easy pace, at or below 70 pecent of your max working heart rate. Maintain a moderate cadence, 90-110 during your easy riding to promote suppleness in your legs.
    2) As the weeks pass, add controlled intensity to your long rides. This intensity can be termed Tempo training and consists of riding at a moderately hard pace, a bit harder then your easy riding described above, but not an intensity you might associate with a time trial. Also, do your Tempo with a low cadence, 70-80 rpm, in a bigger gear to make the effort more muscular and training cycling specific strength.
    After putting in eight or so weeks of this type of training, you'll have established a more solid aerobic base and should be ready add some harder, more specific training to your plan." their take...

    Ok, a little more 'Old School' on tempo is also a pace well under LT, in a gear that will allow mid 80's to 90's cadence. This works on Fat stores more than Glycogen use, a good thing, improves muscle efficiency without putting a heavy burn into them and allows mutiple back-to-back days without overuse, especially early season. The key is, as I was instructed as a youth, as terrain varies to maintain the 'pace' over variations. Early in the season, undulating terrain, later weeks, more real climbing - with the emphasis on maintaining pace regardless... Thsi, of course means there will be times when you reach up to and over LT. As that happens, you are then also working LT threshold and most importantly ! recovery!
    How long you are able to do tempo (how long the ride is) is really up to your schedule. A 2 hr tempo ride is beneficial - 4 hours is good if your fitness level allows you to maintain 'tempo' for the entire period. Better to do 2 hours tempo and 1 hour in 'recovery', than drag your butt through 3 1/2 hours of middlin workout.
    Current thinking is to emphasis 'power' in tempo work at the expense of cardio/efficiency. My thinking is that if you want power and speed, focus on that, use tempo for the gentler approach to building recovery and endurance (than hard intervals). My guess, and is only a guess, is that Lance still keep his cadence up during his tempo workouts. He seemed particularly fond of intervals done on climbing sections - tough stuff! ugh
    My own take is, as I age (am aging, 57+), the 'power' sucks anyway, the best area to maximize seems recovery and endurance - ergo tempo alotto. I throw in the climbing intervals and sprint work, starting this month, once a week - ugh - and happily take a real easy day after that.

  9. #9
    Splicer of Molecules Nickel's Avatar
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    I was looking over stuff for tempo and LT training as it's starting to get to be that time of year and I stumbled across this book and passage that said that too many cyclists spend too much time in this zone.

    I am under the impression that riding tempo (zone 3, 10bp under LT HR) was worked up to doing 1-1.5hrs. I understand that LT training (up to 1hr), VO2 max intervals (3-8min) and anaerobic intervals (30sec -3min) are important but came after the tempo foundation was built/being built (as a new racer). I can understand that only doing z3 would be detrimental to gains, so I was wondering if that was what the book is referring to?

  10. #10
    just another gosling Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickel View Post
    I can understand that only doing z3 would be detrimental to gains, so I was wondering if that was what the book is referring to?
    Probably referring to the habit of many to go "hard" all the time, because if one does that, one never goes hard enough, always being too tired. In a huge and probably foolish generalization, one should go either easy or very hard. For training, that is. In a long event, one will spend a lot of time in z3. But you'll get faster in z3 not by spending a lot of time there, but by riding in zones 4 & 5 and then recovering in 1 & 2.

  11. #11
    Splicer of Molecules Nickel's Avatar
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    *lightbulb*

    Thanks!

  12. #12
    N71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
    Probably referring to the habit of many to go "hard" all the time, because if one does that, one never goes hard enough, always being too tired. In a huge and probably foolish generalization, one should go either easy or very hard. For training, that is. In a long event, one will spend a lot of time in z3. But you'll get faster in z3 not by spending a lot of time there, but by riding in zones 4 & 5 and then recovering in 1 & 2.
    Been there. I rode hard enough to solo off CAT 4 crits but man those CAT 3's were fast! I had to stop "riding" and start "training"!

    Not really a foolish generalization, Carbon. A researcher some time back published training logs for the Austrailian Nat'l Team and they showed that much of their riding was ~20-22mph with a much smaller amount of time spent >95% VO2 max....and virtually nothing in between. (I'm going by memory here) but the point was they were either going Very hard or Very easy. This was conducted just as the Aussies were starting to hit the pro pelotons (after Phil A)

  13. #13
    Senior Member Homebrew01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyclezen View Post
    My own take is, as I age (am aging, 57+), the 'power' sucks anyway, the best area to maximize seems recovery and endurance - ergo tempo alotto. I throw in the climbing intervals and sprint work, starting this month, once a week - ugh - and happily take a real easy day after that.
    You're in Goleta ?? My brother lives & rides there, but he's a youngster (53 or so)
    Bikes: Old steel race bikes, old Cannondale race bikes, less old Cannondale race bike, crappy old mtn bike

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