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  1. #1
    Senior Member adam's Avatar
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    Training advice sought - 10 weeks to go...

    Had this on the ROAD portion of BF, but figured this might generate some more interest here in the Training Forum.

    Have read great advice on a range of topics here at BF, so thought I'd throw one out for the masses.

    I have a bike trip planned in early July that will be four or five days of 80 - 100 mile rides each day in the New Hampshire White Mtns.

    Here's what I want:
    - loose 8-10 lbs before the trip
    - increase my climbing ability as much as possible in this short time frame
    - increase overall fitness so I can enjoy the trip as much as possible

    Here's what I have available:
    - time: most weekends to do any length of ride
    - hills - nothing big in my immediate area, but have a few 1/2 mile hills that I can do repeats on
    - hills - have some good ones an hour and a half away, so I planned to make a few weeks of driving to this location to get some hill training in
    - time: mornings - have a good hour-to-hour and a half each morning before work to train
    - time: after work - have the odd hour or so after work to train
    - local gym around the corner for any weight lifting that could help

    What sort of training should I focus on? Anyone out there want to take a stab at a training regiment?

    I'm hoping to ride 4-5 days a week with bigger rides on the weekends. I was thinking of doing hill repeats one day a week for an hour or so. Any use going to the gym to hit the leg weights at all?

    Thanks for any advice!

  2. #2
    just another gosling Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
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    Biking experience? Mileage so far this year? Bike club member now? Doing group rides now? If not, is there a local bike club?

  3. #3
    Recumbent Ninja
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    For the fat loss. Up your protein intake, and lower your carbs. Structure your diet so that carbs are only ingested during strenuous exercise and within 2 hours post-exercise. Cut out all simple carbs when you're not on the bike or immediately afterwards for recovery. Basically you don't get carbs unless you earn them at the gym or on the bike. Make sure you're eating 5-6 meals a day to increase the thermic effect of food. I don't know your bodyfat percentage but I can pretty much guarantee you the fat loss if you follow this style of eating and you're over 10% bf.


    In the morning, walk at a moderate pace for a half hour prior to eating breakfast. Should not be at a level of effort that makes you pant.

    The weightlifting will cause you to gain weight, or stay the same instead of losing, but it will be muscle weight - you ok with that? If so, hit the gym and lift full body using compound movements, on days you do not bike.

    Long rides, hill repeats, and intervals. I would do one of each every week. You can likely get much better advice on how to train on the bike than I can give, but if you want endurance, hill ability, fat loss, and better fitness (i.e. not sucking wind on those climbs) you need to incorporate all three styles of riding.

  4. #4
    Pat
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    Well, I really do not think it is a good idea to think that you can lose 8-10 lbs in 4 days of cycling assuming that you want to lose body fat. That is 2 lbs per day or 7000 calories deficit per day. That is one heck of a deficit. If you figure 50 calories per mile and 100 miles per day, you only get 5000 calories. Even with bunches of climbing, I don't see you getting a reliable 7000 calorie deficit and being able to eat enought to be able to ride well the next day.

    I have found that as I increase mileage, my carbo intake goes up and my fat intake goes down whilst my protein intake stays steady. One needs the carbohyrates to restore the muscle glycogen every day. Stored glycogen is about 2500 calories so you want to consume at least 2500 carbo calories to replace your glycogen levels. Plus, your Central Nervous System only burns carbohydrates and needs 500 calories per day. So you need 3000 carbo calories per day at a minimum. That is assuming that in your days of hard riding, you will deplete or come very close to depleting your muscle glycogen levels, which I think is a safe assumption.

    I did a 2 week tour out west with similar mileages and a fair amount of climbing. I ate bunches of complex and simple carbohydrates and kept my fat intake down and got more than an adequate level of protein. I felt great and ended up losing 10 lbs in 14 days. Many people on the same tour gobbled up lots of high fat foods (sundaes and what not) and gained weight. So it seems that no matter how hard one exercises, you can always more than cancel it out with excessive eating.

    You are getting into a pretty hard core tour. I have been on these things and one can get through a tough day or two but I have seen many people crash and burn on day three or four of tours like that. By crash and burn, I mean come into camp exhausted, fall asleep, not eat dinner and getting up the next day with another 100 miles of riding and feeling weak and ill. I suggest not burning up the roads and riding at a moderate pace. If you want to, you can always increase your speed towards the end of the ride.

    As for losing over 2 lbs per day, I suppose it is possible but I don't think it is a good objective. If it happens and you feel good during the ride, fine. But I have found that most people do not lose weight on these things. I suggest that you eat in a healthy manner and enjoy yourself.

  5. #5
    Recumbent Ninja
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    umm, he wants to lose 8 pounds by July. Where on earth did you get this lose 2 pounds per day stuff?

  6. #6
    Senior Member adam's Avatar
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    I'm actually not worried too much about loosing the weight - I've stats from the past year that I have been following that show that when I follow a pretty good diet, I can loose a pound a week consistently. With up'ing the cycling and definitely the intensity, I expect that to be the same. Seeing as I have ten weeks to go, that's where I'm coming up with my bw 8-10 lbs goal.

    My big thing is the training. Usually I 'just ride'. Stay around 27 kph and go for a few hours at a time or go for an hour. It's usually the same.

    I've done this same tour approx. 8 times now on the same route. I'm not worried at all about 'finishing' or anything - just wanting to increase my fitness and conquer a few climbs we haven't tried in a long time.

    That's why my question re: hill repeats and intervals and weights. I assume most people will say ride, ride and ride, try and get in as many hills as possible, increasing my weekly mileage to be able to conquer the 320-380 miles in four days.

    I just wasn't sure what I should concentrate on when I only have my hour long sessions. Kill myself with intervals? Kill myself doing hill repeats? Hit the gym once in a while to get some much needed strength back in the ol' legs? Any other suggestions?

  7. #7
    Pokes On Spokes JPradun's Avatar
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    Lose 2lbs a week so you can be on the maintenance plan the final 5 weeks. Trust me, it's a lot easier than falling behind.
    The quest for success: Collegiate Nationals:
    http://iliveonnitro.blogspot.com
    (Updated daily 3/26-4/4-: North Carolina training camp)

  8. #8
    seattle based cyclist merlinman's Avatar
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    stay out of gym
    Mon - rest
    Tues - hill repeats 1xweek (6x on a 1/2 mile hill all out - 5 min rest in between)
    Wed - 2 hour light spin easy pressure
    Thurs - intervals 1x week (2x20 minutes)
    Friday - 30-60 minute spin
    Sat - long ride
    Sun - not as long a ride
    repeat 3x
    ease off week 4 (only hill repeats, take another day off)
    repeat cycle - go harder on hills and intervals and long rides.
    Andiamo!!

  9. #9
    Senior Member adam's Avatar
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    merlinman - I like your plan. the intervals section - you mention 2x20's - Do you mean 2x 20 minute sections of hard sustained effort?

    I've done intervals before, but they were more of the 1 minute on, 1 minute off variety. I've never done the longer intervals.

    Thanks for the advice.

  10. #10
    Pokes On Spokes JPradun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adam
    merlinman - I like your plan. the intervals section - you mention 2x20's - Do you mean 2x 20 minute sections of hard sustained effort?

    I've done intervals before, but they were more of the 1 minute on, 1 minute off variety. I've never done the longer intervals.

    Thanks for the advice.
    Yes, 2 reps of 20 minutes each with ~8min rest between. This is considered LT work so you are better adept at maintaining power at the level just below your "blow up" level.

    If you are only doing 1 minute on, 1 minute off, you aren't going hard enough. Your HR should be 95-100%, and you should need to rest 4 minutes between each interval. It'll resemble being tortured, but you'll feel great afterwards.

    Only adjustments I would make to merlinman's schedule is that Wed shouldn't be a recovery day (as a 2hr recovery ride is nearly worthless, you only need 30-60min). Work hard T/W/R, recover M/F, and continue with his schedule for Sat/Sun. I would replace his Wednesday ride with 6x6min intervals, 6 min rest. The most progress you will see is if you work 3 hard days in a row.
    The quest for success: Collegiate Nationals:
    http://iliveonnitro.blogspot.com
    (Updated daily 3/26-4/4-: North Carolina training camp)

  11. #11
    seattle based cyclist merlinman's Avatar
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    at 50yo I can't do 3 hard days in row which is why Wed is a recovery spin day. So age has a lot to do with your plan. I have found that 3 hard days (T, Th, Sat) have really helped. I just tested out at over 300 watts of threshold power which puts me at 4watts/kilo. I was at 2.5w/kg last September and 3.4w/kg in January. Intervals work!
    Andiamo!!

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