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  1. #1
    I fear angry birds Santaria's Avatar
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    Distance 108 miles @ 12 mph = 9 hour ride

    So the title says it all. That's my birthday present to myself. 108 miles, some serious rolling terrain. My only concern is fueling up as 90% of the ride time is in barren Central Texas land. I'll be rolling into hill country for a good portion of this run, 281 and I are going to get to know each other pretty well.

    As a matter fact: http://toporoute.com/cgi-bin/getSave...OVTJWWQYSXUSFC.

    The fuel sources have to be vegetarian, low in sugar (can't stand the stuff frankly) or vegan. I've actually had friends suggest everything from cake to pizza (I'm not kidding). Now obviously I know how to feed myself and have gotten better at it the longer I've stuck with my lifestyle choice of eating vegan and working toward being a professional endurance rider/runner, but this is sorta beyond my normal "just suck it up and pedal/run" mentality.

    My current 'wall' is at 22 miles on a run and 45 miles on a ride. This is that point where I end up having to drop a gel and just dealing with the overwhelming sugar rush.

    So, I open the floor to you, my intraweb family...
    THE DEVIL

    Originally Posted by Scrodzilla
    If that was my house and you put your stupid bike in my flower garden to take a picture, I would come outside in my underwear and light you on fire.

  2. #2
    Not obese just overweight ratebeer's Avatar
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    Happy birthday and good luck!

    Those are five minute miles -- probably within professional range for running that distance. Kudos on your training and dedication! I've only done a 30 mile run max and found watered down fruit juice with acidic pHs worked best to keep the bonks at bay.
    Joe

    Veho difficilis, ago facilis

  3. #3
    just another gosling Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
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    Here's the simplest thing: go to your local homebrew store and buy a 50# bag of maltodextrin. I'm not kidding. It should cost about $25. Then go to your local den of health food/supplement thieves and buy a container of flavored soy protein. Optimum Nutrition makes a nice strawberry flavored one. Or buy it online. The flavored part is important. Mix these two ingredients together at a ratio of 7 parts malto to 1 part soy protein. This mix should run about 100 calories per 50cc. or 800 calories for 400cc which is about equal to a pint. No sugar and it tastes good. This is identical to what Hammer Nutrition sells for about $10/lb. as Sustained Energy, except that my mix is flavored.

    So then put about a pint of this stuff in your 24 oz. waterbottle, add water, and you'll get a really delicious thick gump that goes down real easy and, more importantly, stays down. Take one to two swallows from this bottle every 15 minutes by the clock, starting when you start riding. This bottle will last you exactly 3 hours. So for a 9 hour ride, you'll need to put 2 more pints of this stuff into two ziploc baggies and put it in your saddle bag. This is all you'll need to eat. I've done this a zillion times and it works great. You can put this gump into your running belt, too. No wall.

  4. #4
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    You really need the carbs when you're exercising. If you don't like gels - and I don't like them either - most hydration drinks give you a much more constant supply of carbs, or you can go with high carb foods for variety. I like newtons and whole wheat bagels, especially on the longer rides where it's easy to get sick of the sugar.
    Eric

    2005 Trek 5.2 Madone, Red with Yellow Flames (Beauty)
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    Read my cycling blog at http://riderx.info/blogs/riderx
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  5. #5
    so whatcha' want? bigskymacadam's Avatar
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    hammer powders mixed w. a little of their gels. i use many scoops perpetuem + three fingers off espresso gel + water in a bottle. two bottles fed me for ten hours. it's vegan too, from what i understand. and sugar free.

    when's your ride? you may want to test this conconction for problems before heading out. i myself hadn't any gastric problems with this mixture.

  6. #6
    just another gosling Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigskymacadam
    i use many scoops perpetuem + three fingers off espresso gel + water in a bottle.
    A RAAM friend of mine barfed that one up in the desert and switched to Sustained Energy. Might not be so good in the heat. Might have been just him. The espresso HammerGel is definitely cafeinated. Which is usually fine with me, but might not be for everyone.

  7. #7
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    75 miles on just a mixture of cytomax and accellerade, plus Carb-Boom has worked for me with no problems, though the bigger concern was lost electrolytes. That should be the same mixture I use for my upcoming 200k. I would do something along these lines, plus grab a few whey or soy protein bars to keep the stomach rumbles at bay, and to have something to slow/steady sugar absorption since youre not giving all-out effort.. I'm working up to a 24 hour race so I'm trying to go all liquid food myself.

    Sounds great - what city is your starting point?

  8. #8
    just another gosling Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
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    aikigreg - good luck on your 200k. Let us know what works well for you. I've got a 300k tomorrow. Just bagged up my powder. I'll try splitting a package of fig newtons with someone to get something to chew. I'm also experimenting with machka's 1 liter water bottles, which just barely fit in my frame - I had to put my pump on top of the top tube to get them in.

  9. #9
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    CFboy - that's a great idea about the malto, by the way. I've been adding extra malto to my accellerade for a while. How long have you ran this mixture? What do you do for electrolytes? I can't seem to find the time to swallow caps.

    I may try your suggestion at the populaie this weekend, albeit with Whey since I am extremely anti-soy.

  10. #10
    just another gosling Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aikigreg
    CFboy - that's a great idea about the malto, by the way. I've been adding extra malto to my accellerade for a while. How long have you ran this mixture? What do you do for electrolytes? I can't seem to find the time to swallow caps.

    I may try your suggestion at the populaie this weekend, albeit with Whey since I am extremely anti-soy.
    I started with Sustained Energy with HammerGel for flavoring maybe in 2002, but then I read the label, looked up all the ingredients, and decided to mix my own, getting rid of the HammerGel, also. This is the third year with my homebrew. I use Endurolytes, from one of those plastic coin purses tucked up my shorts leg. I can pick them out of it with my tongue. That's if it's dry. If it's wet, I just take one or two once in a while at a rest stop. You can also just mix in Endurolyte powder. That's even easier, but then you don't have as precise a control over it.

    The mad doctor at e-caps says whey protein makes ammonia during hard exercise. I don't know about that, but that's why I use the soy during, whey after. So I fart a little. Not the end of the world.

  11. #11
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    Also Clif Bars are all organic and soy. Plus they taste great.

  12. #12
    Recumbent Ninja
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy
    The mad doctor at e-caps says whey protein makes ammonia during hard exercise. I don't know about that, but that's why I use the soy during, whey after. So I fart a little. Not the end of the world.
    can you find that page on their website and link it? I can't seem to find it and I'd like to send it to some friends of miine who are exercise nutritionists and researchers. I'm no chemist, but I've learned a thing or two, and I can't see how the liver could produce ammonia from amino acids.

  13. #13
    I fear angry birds Santaria's Avatar
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    The link shows the route, its from Temple to Copperas Cove through Gatesville and Lampasas.

    I'll be making this run June 7th but leaving at about 4 a.m. that day to avoid as much heat as possible.

    My only issue now is that I have about $1,300 saved up for a new bike and I'm trying to decide if I want to ride my beat-up Novara or pickup 'somethinga-nice, ya know?' Which really creates a whole new line of things to review on my 10 mile runs at night.

    Do I finally buy a new 105-geared bike, or that Castro Valley I've been eyeing and drooling over (but then limiting myself to commuting on it, but still one sexa beast) or maybe that Langster that they got up at the shop that I've taken for a spin.

    Then if I buy the Langster, do I do the century on it and move it out another couple weeks to familiarize myself with the new steed, do I go fixed wheel or SS..


    and then my runs over with 1:28:05 on the 'easy run' day and I'm still stupified.

    I['ll figure it out I guess.
    THE DEVIL

    Originally Posted by Scrodzilla
    If that was my house and you put your stupid bike in my flower garden to take a picture, I would come outside in my underwear and light you on fire.

  14. #14
    Senior Member donrhummy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy
    Here's the simplest thing: go to your local homebrew store and buy a 50# bag of maltodextrin. I'm not kidding. It should cost about $25.
    Yep, Maltodextrin, but you can get it cheaper than that. Get CarboGain ($15 http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/now/carbo.html ). I got it from bodybuilding.com and was very pleased (and it's a HUGE container so it'll last you a while). Fill your water bottles with that (as well as electrolytes including some sodium) and you'll have enough fuel for the ride. Maltodextrin's great because while it's a complex carb, it is relatively easier for the body to absorb/utilize. So you'll get energy faster than with reg. complex carbs.

  15. #15
    Senior Member DannoXYZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Santaria
    The fuel sources have to be vegetarian, low in sugar (can't stand the stuff frankly) or vegan. I've actually had friends suggest everything from cake to pizza (I'm not kidding). Now obviously I know how to feed myself and have gotten better at it the longer I've stuck with my lifestyle choice of eating vegan and working toward being a professional endurance rider/runner, but this is sorta beyond my normal "just suck it up and pedal/run" mentality.
    You can actually eat regular food and I prefer them on the longer rides vs. the energy-drinks. Sure, cake, pizza, bean-burritos take longer to digest than the energy-drinks, but they taste better and feel better in the stomach. Your 45-mile riding limit is due to running out of glycogen, so if you can reach 45miles, you can do 100miles+ easily WITH nutrition. Start eating at 1.0 hours out, take in a constant 250-calories/hr along with 500-750ml of water with electrolytes and you'll have no problems with 100miles+ at an easy 15-18mph pace.

    However, if you wanted to break some records for this ride, I'd take along the energy-drinks instead as riding hard with solid food kinda upsets my stomach and gives me cramps in my side.


    BTW - if you sip that gel one small bite at a time, you won't get the sugar rush... not that it matters on a ride anyway, you'll always be burning off calories faster than you can absorb, so no insulin spike/glucose-low will occur.

  16. #16
    just another gosling Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by donrhummy
    Yep, Maltodextrin, but you can get it cheaper than that. Get CarboGain ($15 http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/now/carbo.html ).
    Let's see, dollars per pound, so we divide the number of dollars (15) by the number of pounds (7) to get $2.14/lb., plus shipping. Now, if I divide $22.50 by 50, I get $.45/lb. and no shipping. It's a hard deal to beat.

  17. #17
    You need a new bike supcom's Avatar
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    Tough to ride long distance without sugar. Granola bars, cookies, pop tarts, potato chips, tortilla chips, nuts, crackers, orange juice, YooHoo, SoBe fruity-type drinks, Starbucks doubleshot espresso, plain ole coca-cola, are all available in C-stores and contain lots of calories. Most have a good helping of sugar too, but that's just the way it is. The key is to eat before you hit the wall and things go a lot better.

    I'd suggest chocolate milk, but that's apparently off-limits for you.

    I'm wondering why you plan to spend so much time on US highways on your route. There's quite a few FM or Ranch Roads that are roughly parallel to these roads that would surely be quieter and more interesting than having large trucks blowing by mile after mile.

    Good luck on the ride. Write back and let us know how the route goes. I'm interested in doing some riding in that area.

  18. #18
    Senior Member DannoXYZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by supcom
    Tough to ride long distance without sugar. Granola bars, cookies, pop tarts, potato chips, tortilla chips, nuts, crackers, orange juice, YooHoo, SoBe fruity-type drinks, Starbucks doubleshot espresso, plain ole coca-cola, are all available in C-stores and contain lots of calories. Most have a good helping of sugar too, but that's just the way it is. The key is to eat before you hit the wall and things go a lot better.
    Once digested all those foods are absorbed as glucose & fructose molecules anyway. So whatever you need to eat to fuel your muscles will be converted to sugar anyway. The problem isn't sugar, it's how it has been abused and mis-used by people and the resultant obesity epidemic.

  19. #19
    just another gosling Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aikigreg
    can you find that page on their website and link it? I can't seem to find it and I'd like to send it to some friends of miine who are exercise nutritionists and researchers. I'm no chemist, but I've learned a thing or two, and I can't see how the liver could produce ammonia from amino acids.
    Here's one page:
    http://www.e-caps.com/za/ECP?PAGE=AR...RTICLE.ID=1276

    Google "ammonia site:e-caps.com" for other references.

    I've used this handbook for my cycling and have yet to find anything wrong with it. Of course I don't actually use any Hammer products any more, other than Endurolytes, but the advice is still good:
    http://www.e-caps.com/downloads/fuelinghandbook.pdf

    One of the main tips from Dr. Misner that has come in handy is when your stomach feels bad, stop eating and just drink water until it feels better. And "eat before you're hungry" is not necessarily good advice for an experienced rider.

  20. #20
    Recumbent Ninja
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    Thaks! I'm going to do a bit of research, but I think I'll end up still using whey, with some bcaas and gultamine thrown in for fun.

  21. #21
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    Last week I did a 60 mile populaire and was pretty wiped out trying to stay at the front of the group. Yesterday I did an 80 mile ride and had no problems whatsoever staying in the lead the whole way. I made two changes:

    1. 25g whey protein in the water bottle along with the accellerade.
    2. Endurolytes.

    Thaks for the tips! Worked like a charm.

  22. #22
    just another gosling Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aikigreg
    Last week I did a 60 mile populaire and was pretty wiped out trying to stay at the front of the group. Yesterday I did an 80 mile ride and had no problems whatsoever staying in the lead the whole way. I made two changes:

    1. 25g whey protein in the water bottle along with the accellerade.
    2. Endurolytes.

    Thaks for the tips! Worked like a charm.
    I'll suggest another change: let someone else pull once in a while. It's good for their egos.

  23. #23
    Recumbent Ninja
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    I ride a recumbent. It's not fair to them if I let myself rest. Then they'll never catch up when I drop the hammer!

  24. #24
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    Cytomax & whey protein with lots of water works wonders with me.
    Yeah, eating solids while hammering is real smart
    Not only can it cause stomach complications it will also be alot more speedily digested & losing a lot of the nutrients anyways.
    That calls for a bag of cookies...

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