Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Training & Nutrition Learn how to develop a training schedule that's good for you. What should you eat and drink on your ride? Learn everything you need to know about training and nutrition here.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 04-28-07, 03:29 PM   #1
SKRIMPY
Chicken Legs
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Bloomington In.
Bikes: Cannondale R800 Trek hybrid
Posts: 9
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
ammonia smell

after a good ride or a hard workout i get whiff of ammonia or something similar to ammonia smell for 5 to10 minutes. anyone else experience this?
SKRIMPY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-07, 03:30 PM   #2
z415
Senior Member
 
z415's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Gainesville/Tampa, FL
Bikes: Trek 1000, two mtbs and working on a fixie for commuting.
Posts: 2,343
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Cat pee?
z415 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-07, 04:03 PM   #3
SKRIMPY
Chicken Legs
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Bloomington In.
Bikes: Cannondale R800 Trek hybrid
Posts: 9
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
no cats.
SKRIMPY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-07, 04:12 PM   #4
BroMax
The Other White Meat
 
BroMax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Reno
Bikes: Raleigh Sports 3 speed, Torker T-530
Posts: 605
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Are you perhaps riding/working out near a methamphetamine production zone?
BroMax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-07, 04:19 PM   #5
Enthalpic
Killing Rabbits
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 5,171
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)
Ammonia can be produced as a byproduct of excessive protein oxidization; especially from the amino acid glutamine. The glutamine releases ammonia in the process of becoming glutamic acid, which is then converted to glucose via gluconeogenesis or burnt by direct entry into krebs cycle.






Normally ammonia is detoxified by conversion to urea, or other nitrogenous compounds, by first reacting with bicarbonate. The reason this is not occurring in your case is because of a disruption in the acid-base balance of your system leading to insufficient bicarbonate ion.

To resolve this problem you should start by consuming more carbohydrates during exercise such that less ammonia is produced in the first place. Secondly you should increase the amount of calcium in your diet, preferentially from green vegetables, as this increases the amount of bicarbonate available. You may read of supplements that work along this line like Sportlegs or direct supplementation with sodium bicarbonate (baking soda). Your stomach produces bicarbonate and dumps it into your bloodstream (the alkaline tide) as it produces stomach acidity to neutralize the antacid.
CO2 + H20 + KCl +ATP -> KHCO3 + HCl + ADP + PO4

Last edited by Enthalpic; 04-28-07 at 11:49 PM.
Enthalpic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-07, 04:56 PM   #6
Cassiel
Hapless
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Portland, OR
Bikes: Specialized Sequoia; 1982 Trek 610
Posts: 90
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
That's fascinating. I used to get that ammonia smell for a while after I'd quit working out, when I was trying to lose weight. Once I got down to my desired weight and started eating normally again, I rarely get it any more, unless it's a very long workout (long run or long ride).
Cassiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-07, 06:37 PM   #7
SKRIMPY
Chicken Legs
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Bloomington In.
Bikes: Cannondale R800 Trek hybrid
Posts: 9
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
thanks for the info. i was hoping there was a reason for this and i wasn't bonkers.
SKRIMPY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-07, 08:42 PM   #8
cbaronzzi
Bike!
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Northeast Ohio
Bikes: 2002 Cannondale R2000 Si Saeco, 2000 Specialized Rockhopper RS
Posts: 185
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Sometimes I get it too right after a ride for a few minutes. I knew it was some physiological process but never knew what. It is like a smell that is right in your nose...not like you are actually smelling something in the air around you. Very strange and kind of hard to describe if you have never experienced it.

So, for those that are aware of this and what causes it, should we be concerned or change out diet to avoid it or is it just a physiological process that we should not concern our self about?
cbaronzzi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-07, 11:02 PM   #9
CdCf
Videre non videri
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Bikes: 1 road bike (simple, light), 1 TT bike (could be more aero, could be lighter), 1 all-weather commuter and winter bike, 1 Monark 828E ergometer indoor bike
Posts: 3,208
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Yep, I often get it as well, and really only after high-intensity rides. Like cbaronzzi, I knew it was something in my body, but not the exact mechanism.

I drink so much milk that I doubt I have calcium deficiency.
CdCf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-07, 11:05 PM   #10
Blue Jays
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: United States
Bikes: roadbikes and full-suspension mountainbikes
Posts: 1,926
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Perhaps something to do with your post-exercise blood sugar levels? Normal would be in the 80-120 mg/dl range.
Blue Jays is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-07, 11:29 PM   #11
JPradun
Pokes On Spokes
 
JPradun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Madison, WI
Bikes: Pedal Force ZX3
Posts: 824
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Also be cautious of over-training symptoms, as a constant smell of ammonia could be early warning signs.
JPradun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-07, 06:55 AM   #12
RiPHRaPH
Don't Believe the Hype
 
RiPHRaPH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: chicagoland area
Bikes: 1999 Steelman SR525, 2002 Lightspeed Ultimate, 1988 Trek 830, 2008 Scott Addict
Posts: 2,670
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Many times, that smell is due to muscle degredation. Many diabetics get this smell when they don't have enough sugar on board and their bodies begin to use its muscle to get energy, which leads to muscle wasting.
When you don't have enough carbs and/or sugar, the body looks for other energy supplies.
This is diet related and easily corrected.
The Adkin's diet people know that smell. With the zero or near zero carb intake they can lose muscle mass rather than fat. Mobilizing fat is a much harder process in this diet.
RiPHRaPH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-07, 08:16 AM   #13
CdCf
Videre non videri
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Bikes: 1 road bike (simple, light), 1 TT bike (could be more aero, could be lighter), 1 all-weather commuter and winter bike, 1 Monark 828E ergometer indoor bike
Posts: 3,208
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Yeah, I guess all that nitrogen in the muscle protein has to go somewhere.
CdCf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-07, 09:14 AM   #14
Enthalpic
Killing Rabbits
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 5,171
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by CdCf
I drink so much milk that I doubt I have calcium deficiency.
Well it’s not a calcium ion deficiency; it is a transient deficiency in bicarbonate. The recommendation to eat calcium rich foods was just because most of these foods help reduce acidity. However, it is not the cations (Ca, Mg) but the anions that do this (carbonate, hydroxide, etc). Something like CaCl2 would not have the same effect.

I agree with the explanations above about how low blood sugar levels, from whatever cause (bonking, diabetes, low carb diet), leads to the increased protein oxidization.

However, this still only explains how the extra ammonia is being produced, not why the body is dealing with it improperly. One thing that came to mind was that vigorous exercise could lead to hyperventilation (ragged breathing) which in turn leads to a decreased partial pressure CO2. This drop in ppCO2 is why you have a person who is hyperventilating breathe in and out of a paper bag (to reabsorb some CO2). The reduced ppCO2 will lower the amount of bicarbonate available because CO2 is the starting material for the bicarb production.

Thoughts?
Enthalpic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-07, 04:43 PM   #15
SKRIMPY
Chicken Legs
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Bloomington In.
Bikes: Cannondale R800 Trek hybrid
Posts: 9
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I tried your suggestions . Just rode 30 miles and no ammonia smell. Thanks again and Bike Forum is great.
Skrimpy.
SKRIMPY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-07, 11:31 PM   #16
CdCf
Videre non videri
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Bikes: 1 road bike (simple, light), 1 TT bike (could be more aero, could be lighter), 1 all-weather commuter and winter bike, 1 Monark 828E ergometer indoor bike
Posts: 3,208
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enthalpic
Well itís not a calcium ion deficiency; it is a transient deficiency in bicarbonate. The recommendation to eat calcium rich foods was just because most of these foods help reduce acidity. However, it is not the cations (Ca, Mg) but the anions that do this (carbonate, hydroxide, etc). Something like CaCl2 would not have the same effect.
Fair enough, but how do we find out which anion Ca is coupled with in regular milk?
CdCf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-07, 05:42 PM   #17
Paul L.
Senior Member
 
Paul L.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Arizona, USA
Bikes: Mercier Corvus (commuter), Fila Taos (MTB), Trek 660(Got frame for free and put my LeMans Centurian components on it)
Posts: 2,601
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I knew a really fat guy that started riding hard and he constantly had this smell. I got it a lot too when I started running and was working on losing weight. Generally I don't get it anymore unless I have done a very intense workout.
__________________
Sunrise saturday,
I was biking the backroads,
lost in the moment.
Paul L. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-07, 03:16 PM   #18
blaronn
Senior Member
 
blaronn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 144
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Alternate source: I recently smelled this ammonia-like odor during rides. Probably went on for a couple weeks. Turns out that it was the buds on the local Bradford Pear trees blooming!
blaronn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-07, 06:45 AM   #19
boodydarn1
Newbie
 
Join Date: May 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Ammonia smell

One of the components of sweat is urea which is part of protein degradation. Levels in the perspiration range from .24 to 1.2 mg/cc. Urea, (NH2)2CO is urea is part of the urea cycle. It is further broken down to carbon dioxide (co2) and ammonia (NH3+)
boodydarn1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:40 AM.