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Thread: Leg Routine

  1. #1
    2008 Prouty WhaleOil's Avatar
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    Leg Routine

    Hi to all! I've been posting in the Clydesdale portion because this is where I fit in. I have a question though that I thought might be more appropriate here, so here goes.

    I've been riding about 6 wks. on a Specialized Crossroads comfort type...I know...I know...I found this forum after the fact and it fit my budget at the time. I've once again started lifting MT, W&F. Chest and back the first 2 and arms and shoulders the other 2. Not a perfect schedule but I can stick to it. I also do resistance crunches every workout as well as legs (extensions and curls) every workout. Calf raises I do several times every day whenever I think of it. 2 score and 6, when I used to lift religiously, none of us EVER did aerobics. Think Arnold embossed lifting belts, D-bol etc. Now I need to rebuild my upper body and create an aerobic one. Back in those days, the thinking was, you could work your legs and abs EVERY day because you used them every day...a lot. I know....things have changed in 25 yrs.

    I've read that if you combine resistance training with aerobic workouts you should do the resistance first. A couple of problems here. When I ride after a workout I'm already trashed and don't do diddly for miles or time. Secondly, I'd like to know if any of you have any suggestions as to what to do about a resistance leg routine. I can manage days on and off for the workout within the week.

    I know I've given you folks a mouthful but just things on my mind, hope they make sense.

    BTW, have lost 20# on the nose as of Sat., now 230 and I am thrilled although I know a lot is water.

    Any comments will be appreciated..Thank You.
    The direct link to support me in the 27th Annual Prouty Bike Ride, July 12, 2008:
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    Thank You! -eric

  2. #2
    Faster but still slow slowandsteady's Avatar
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    Actually, you have it backwards...do the aerobic first then resistance. As you have found out, resistance first leaves you too weak for an aerobic effort. Also to maximize your muscle building efforts you have to allow for 48 hours of rest between lifting a specific muscle group. You cannot do back to back to back workouts on your legs and expect improvement. Muscle is built at rest and not in the gym.

    Now if you are just doing it to burn calories...fine do as much as you want. Just realize that doing calf raises several times every day is not the best way to build nice calf muscles. A better regimen would be to lift twice a week and ride 5 - 6 days a week. Be sure to incorporate recovery easy rides into that schedule, preferably the day after the leg lifting days.
    "Ride lots." -- Eddy Merckx

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    Quote Originally Posted by WhaleOil
    I've read that if you combine resistance training with aerobic workouts you should do the resistance first. A couple of problems here. When I ride after a workout I'm already trashed and don't do diddly for miles or time. Secondly, I'd like to know if any of you have any suggestions as to what to do about a resistance leg routine. I can manage days on and off for the workout within the week.
    You probably read that on a bodybuilding/fitness site. The reason that is advocated is because building LBM is more important to the author(s) than improving CV fitness. If your biking performance is more important than your lifting performance, then simply reverse the order.

    As far as leg training goes, it kinda depends on what you're trying to accomplish. Without knowing that, the standard bodybuilding/powerlifting exercises are all good:

    squats
    front squats
    deadlifts
    stiff legs
    ham curls
    45* leg press
    seated ham curls
    extensions - could end up bugging your patellar tendon

  4. #4
    2008 Prouty WhaleOil's Avatar
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    Thanks for the reply, no surprise about bassackwards. I do check the copy rights on the books I get from the library and they are sometimes 35 yrs behind...later than me! Will do the biking before the resistance, you know it's something that just makes sense, don't know why some people thought otherwise but.....years ago. Just have to put together a decent routine biking 5x / wk weather permitting and 4 days lifting. Thanks!
    The direct link to support me in the 27th Annual Prouty Bike Ride, July 12, 2008:
    https://www.kintera.org/faf/donorReg...upId=219633987
    Please support others by supporting me.

    Thank You! -eric

  5. #5
    just another gosling Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
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    For cycling, multi-joint stuff is best. Lift like you ride. Cyclists try to build an efficient engine. What it looks like is much less important. So include lunges, especially reverse lunges. Step-ups. One-legged knee bends are good if you can't get to the gym. Full situps with the hip joint at 90 works the hip flexor nicely.

    Definitely do the thing first that you most want to improve. If that's cycling, ride first. If you want to be a lifter, but are cycling for aerobics, do the lifting first.

    The best thing is to lift and ride as you can all winter. Many of us have to use the trainer a lot in the winter. Then back off the lifting schedule in the spring when you can get outside on the bike more.

  6. #6
    2008 Prouty WhaleOil's Avatar
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    Planning on riding this sled till it's very cold, then putting it on a trainer for the winter and continue lifting. Next Spring I think I'll be ready for another bike, keeping this one on the trainer for real lousy days, haven't decided of course it's too early to tell for sure but I do know I enjoy riding the road...sorry MTB folks....but that could change...you never know.

    One of my goals is to ride the Prouty next year even if it's just the 25m. It's for a good cause and it would be a major accomplishment considering where my body's been.

    http://www.kintera.org/faf/home/ccp....7143&ccp=54606
    The direct link to support me in the 27th Annual Prouty Bike Ride, July 12, 2008:
    https://www.kintera.org/faf/donorReg...upId=219633987
    Please support others by supporting me.

    Thank You! -eric

  7. #7
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    Welp, if you want fat loss and leg strength, do the lifting first. Doing the aerobics first is a waste of time, since no LBM is built, which is the only reason to lift. Save the cycling for off days or only do slower recovery rides after a workout. Doing it the other way around will not increase muscle mass nor will it increase strength, except for whatever newbie gains you receive as a factor of your CNS adapting.

    As for exercises, front squats and deadlifts should be your staples. Follow them up with whatever you like but for goodness sakes stay off the leg extension. Since you're new to working out sticking with 3 sets of 8-10 reps is just fine, and work them twice a week.

  8. #8
    just another gosling Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
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    It's good to have goals. Gives you a reason to suffer.

    Greg - fortunately for disagreements over training protocols, there are metrics involved. In lifting it's called pounds or kilos. In cycling it's called seconds per mile. Pretty easy to tell: in cycling, chicken legs beats slabs of muscle every time.

    Another funny thing, Greg: why have I never seen a recumbent finish ahead of me in a long distance event - not counting fully faired HPVs? Not only that - why have I never been passed by a recumbent, like, ever? (Again, not counting HPVs) Why don't I see a single recumbent among the 100-odd riders that show up for our local rando events? Seems like that goes against the 'bent mystique. Odd, that.

  9. #9
    Splicer of Molecules Nickel's Avatar
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    I know it depends on your goals but if I am planning on a hard ride, I will not lift that day. Or I will place several hours between the two activities. I will lift before I do any aerobic activity because I want my muscles to be at their freshest and I think if you are tired, it will impact your lifting ability and also importantly, your form. goldenear gave some great suggestions, squats and deadlifts all the way!

  10. #10
    Recumbent Ninja
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy
    It's good to have goals. Gives you a reason to suffer.

    Greg - fortunately for disagreements over training protocols, there are metrics involved. In lifting it's called pounds or kilos. In cycling it's called seconds per mile. Pretty easy to tell: in cycling, chicken legs beats slabs of muscle every time.
    Good points. Cycling is about muscle endurance, and muscle size is no indication of muscle endurance. There's honestly not a lot of muscle involved in cycling - it doesn't take much strength to spin cranks with good gearing. Thus weight, aerobic capacity, and muscle endurance become the dominant factors for a racer. Muscle takes more energy to haul over long distances, which often puts the more muscled rider at a disadvantage. This is one of the reasons why endurance cardio like cycling is catabolic (muscle wasting). It's also why most of those pro cyclists are practically horse jockey size.

    However, the OP, along with many of us, are not *racers*. We're in reality average joes who have no chance of going pro - even if we compete on some level, we're not likely to have the time, money, or insanity to devote to such causes. Us average joes want great looking bodies along with as much performance as we can get. And that means a combination of muscle and endurance. It's a fine balance.

    The OP wants to look good and lose more fat, if I read him correctly. If he walked into my facility I'm pretty sure that's the way he'd couch it. Thus, he needs more metabolically active muscle both to look good and to burn more calories at rest so that he can lower his bodyfat. Training like a pro cyclist is contrary to that goal.

    The weekend warriors need to train vastly different than true athletes. I train both and use widely differening programs and diets for each. With my Athletes we have a strength session in the morning and a sport specific session in the afternoon or evening. The rest of us suckers with jobs can't do that. Athletes can rest, eat, and recover enough that this is possible. You and I cannot.

    Is the OP an athlete who can dedicate 24 hours a day to his sport, or is he a weekend warrior?

    Quote Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy
    Another funny thing, Greg: why have I never seen a recumbent finish ahead of me in a long distance event - not counting fully faired HPVs? Not only that - why have I never been passed by a recumbent, like, ever? (Again, not counting HPVs) Why don't I see a single recumbent among the 100-odd riders that show up for our local rando events? Seems like that goes against the 'bent mystique. Odd, that.
    [/quote]

    That one's simple: most recumbent rider are either choosing those bikes because of medical issues or they're fat, or old. Very few bent riders are seeking speed. VERY few. However, with the new designs and materials used over the last few years, speed is possible on bents now, so this is changing. I am an HPV racer and train for speed. Unless they're VERY good riders, I no longer get passed by anything shorter than a 5 man paceline, and often not even them. By no means am I the best or even close, but I can do sub 5 hour centuries. I still get whipped on my Tues-Thurs training nights though. the 20 man advantage eventually wears me down, and while I could likely draft and end up outpacing them, I like running udner my own steam.

    If it's event finishes you're looking for, do a search for Sebring 24 hour, Race Across Florida, Heart of the South, and several other distance events. Search for John Schlitter and Bachetta bikes. You'll find that John pretty well destroys the competition, even over courses with 16000 feet of climbing.

    Funny story: last week at a very difficult century, I had a man and woman unloading next to me and when they found out I was doing the full 105 miles pointed to my bike and said "you're doing it on *that*" They weren't trying to be asses- they were just incredulous. I finished 40 minutes ahead of them, and I wasn't even trying for speed. We had a good laugh about it.

    As for why you don't see them at Rando events - seems kinda odd to me too! I've only started doing them this year, and met several benters there. There's a large rando group of benters over on bentrideronline. Bents are tailor made for randos for sure. And if you loook at bikejournal.com, you'll find the #1 and #2 riders in terms of distance are benters, and the bentrider club has double the miles of the next. #5 by the way is a guy I train with on Tues and Thurs named Mark Metcalf (a RAAM competitor), who doesn't ride bent, but has started seriously considering it since my friend and I joined.

    By the way, I see you're in WA. I'm going to be vacationing in Portland/Vancouver Wa area in a few weeks. Might hit spokane too. Any chance of getting together for a ride?

  11. #11
    just another gosling Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aikigreg
    By the way, I see you're in WA. I'm going to be vacationing in Portland/Vancouver Wa area in a few weeks. Might hit spokane too. Any chance of getting together for a ride?
    Sure, you bet. It's always fun to ride with new people. That's one of the reasons I got into rando.

    What do you mean, you ride an HPV? Bent with a bubble fairing, or something more? Photos?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy
    Sure, you bet. It's always fun to ride with new people. That's one of the reasons I got into rando.

    What do you mean, you ride an HPV? Bent with a bubble fairing, or something more? Photos?
    Excellent! I'll PM you with my schedule when I get it together, but I'm planning on being up there the 1st-3rd week in June, I believe.

    I'm talking specifically about the IHPVA, the international Human powered vehicles assoc. The organization that puts on all the races for recumbents. We allow upright bikes as well, Unlike UCI and USCA events, but they only show up occasionally.

    The races take many forms - sprints, flying starts, hill climbs, etc. There are many classes depending on whether your bike is stock, partially faired, or a fully faired streamliner. Sometimes it's on a nascar track or velodrome, sometimes on the road. here's the site:

    www.wisil.recumbents.com. They just had a big to-do in Eugene I believe. Or maybe it's this weekend.

    Here are a couple pics. One is a race from last year. I'm in the lead here, but I finished 5th. The guy who won, Dennis Grelk, set a recent record for crossing Iowa in under 11 hours I believe, and won the Sebring this year. he lapped me 15 times on the track. The college team cyclist who competed was lapped about 20 times by me.

    http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v6...einthelead.jpg

    Here is a photo of my current land-luge. Sits so low I can put my palms on the ground. I probably won't bring this one with me.

    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...0tica/try1.jpg

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