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Training & Nutrition Learn how to develop a training schedule that's good for you. What should you eat and drink on your ride? Learn everything you need to know about training and nutrition here.

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Old 05-18-07, 11:09 AM   #1
AroW
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Do I need Whey Protein?

I want to bulk up not in the body builders sense but just to add more muscle in the upper body. The problem is I also like to do a lot of cardio like biking or running so obviously I need some extra protein in my diet if I want to gain muscle.

Here's the situation. I don't like the idea of spending all my time at the gym and doing all the cutting/bulking routine that they spend countless amount of time on. Ive noticed that I bulk up quite readily even when I start doing a lot of pullups,chinups, and pushups on a regular alternating day basis. However, when I am also doing cardio like I am now, I feel as if I dont bulk up as much and I feel weaker, so I am thinking maybe if I add a little bit of whey protein into my normal diet I can see more improvements.

So far it seems as if my "rountine" is giving me results, but I seriously think I am doing something wrong here because I gain and loose muscle mass very quickly. Once I start doing this "routine" I see big improvements but if I falter just a little I loose the hard work really quickly and strength. Is the problem that I simply need more protein?
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Old 05-18-07, 11:44 AM   #2
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Are you young with a fast metabolism? I am envious when you said, “I bulk up quite readily even when I start doing a lot of pullups, chinups, and pushups on a regular alternating day basis.”

You did not mention how much you eat or how many grams of protein you consume now. When I increase my summer cycling. A lot of people told me I was looking skinny by the end of the summer. I was obviously loosing muscle and fat. I started drinking a higher carb and protein shake and eating extra food and I was able to keep more muscle.

First try more FOOD. Try eating every three hours. Try to calculate (estimate) how much protein you eat now. I strived for one gram of protein per pound of body weight or more, especially that you lift and cycle. Eating tubs of cottage cheese, eggs, tuna, chicken, meat with lots of vegetables and fruit. If you need more, added protein shakes in there too. Just as an aside, I prefer MIXED protein supplements, ones that have whey, Micellar casein, and maybe some Egg proteins also.
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Old 05-18-07, 12:11 PM   #3
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Are you young with a fast metabolism? I am envious when you said, “I bulk up quite readily even when I start doing a lot of pullups, chinups, and pushups on a regular alternating day basis.”

You did not mention how much you eat or how many grams of protein you consume now. When I increase my summer cycling. A lot of people told me I was looking skinny by the end of the summer. I was obviously loosing muscle and fat. I started drinking a higher carb and protein shake and eating extra food and I was able to keep more muscle.

First try more FOOD. Try eating every three hours. Try to calculate (estimate) how much protein you eat now. I strived for one gram of protein per pound of body weight or more, especially that you lift and cycle. Eating tubs of cottage cheese, eggs, tuna, chicken, meat with lots of vegetables and fruit. If you need more, added protein shakes in there too. Just as an aside, I prefer MIXED protein supplements, ones that have whey, Micellar casein, and maybe some Egg proteins also.
I just finished my freshman semester at college. I bulk up quickly but I lose it quickly too, and I cannot seem to keep it up(If I do 2-3 week of consistent training but somehow skip it for 3-4 days, I lose a lot, and I have to start over). The biggest problem is that I cannot seem to hold in the benefits of my work.

My current diet now is just a regular 3 square meals. I just make sure to eat more meat at mealtime than normal and maybe milk after a workout.

Cycling doesnt help either. First it burns more of the muscles if I do a lot of cardio(which I like) and I have to try harder to keep the muscle, and second I just dont have as much energy to do weight related stuff when I am cycling hard as well. Do you think just by adding more protein in my diet(and keeping everything consistent), I will be less tired and be able to keep on more muscle without losing it?

In terms of weight I am light and if you just knew my weight you would think I am frail skinny(Im about 125 average depending on the time of day), but I have visible muscle definition on my upper body and I want to increase it a bit. Also, I am not tall(I ride a 52cm, and I think I am 5'8" or maybe less) so it is a bit easier for me to bulk up.

Right now I have not done any cardio for 2 weeks because I was lazy. I started doing the "routine" again just yesterday and I feel much stronger already probably because I dont have cardio yet. The next few weeks I will be doing cycling so I dont know if I can keep up the results. I want whey protein, just dont know if it is necessary and worth the money buying those huge tubs. Plus my family will make fun of me if they see me wasting money of those products
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Old 05-18-07, 12:13 PM   #4
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You need a post workout drink of 25g protein and 50g carbs. Not a bad idea to have another one an hour later, either. Whey protein will do.

You're probably only going to see small muscle mass increases while riding a lot, but it'll prime you for good strength and mass gains in the off season.
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Old 05-18-07, 12:15 PM   #5
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And you need to east 5-6 meals a day, so adding in the shakes will bump you to 5. I'd also throw in another snack of protein + veggies midmorning sometime. Chicken and carrots and hummus, or tuna and veggie salad, etc.

At 125 you need to E-A-T. You can't gain any muscle without a surplus of calories.
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Old 05-18-07, 12:41 PM   #6
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Besides the post workout drinks Greg recommends, I drink a glass w/15g of whey protein before every meal. That adds calories and protein and you need both.

It seems odd to me, though, that you lose it so quickly. Unless you're riding like a maniac and not recovering properly, you shouldn't be able to catabolize muscle that quickly.

I buy my whey online from flexyourmuscles.com. Optimum Nutrition 100% Whey. If you figure the cost/lb. and compare that to the cost/lb. of eating meat, all of a sudden it doesn't look so bad. Show your family the figures. Tell them that this saves money.
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Old 05-18-07, 01:49 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by aikigreg
And you need to east 5-6 meals a day, so adding in the shakes will bump you to 5. I'd also throw in another snack of protein + veggies midmorning sometime. Chicken and carrots and hummus, or tuna and veggie salad, etc.

At 125 you need to E-A-T. You can't gain any muscle without a surplus of calories.
EXACTLY

Bump up your three meals a day to 5-6 and add the shakes and you'll see gains. The post workout shake
he recommended should be considered a MUST have.
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Old 05-18-07, 02:13 PM   #8
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It seems odd to me, though, that you lose it so quickly. Unless you're riding like a maniac and not recovering properly, you shouldn't be able to catabolize muscle that quickly.

.
He's that rare breed of hardgainer. I've trained some bodybuilders who lost muscle mass at anything less than 5000 calories a day.
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Old 05-18-07, 08:53 PM   #9
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I estimate that I am eating 80g of protein on average a day at the moment. I might try the whey protein mixed into the milk to bring it up to 120-140 range.

The gains I am talking about aren't that big. You wont notice it if I am wearing a shirt but its more noticeable if I do not have a a shirt on. Also, I appear skinnier when I have my clothes on to other people than when I don't, so I am looking to increase the muscle gain just a bit more and hold it.

I can't say I have a very fast metabolism either, maybe just slightly higher than average(I am not one those hot dog eating champs). I cannot actually eat that much at one single sitting so I like the idea of 5-6 smaller meals per day. If you ask me to eat one big meal in 15 or 20 minutes, my stomach can't handle it, but if I have 1 hour to do it I probably can but I will feel very full for the next 3-4 hours. Some days I can eat a lot, some days I can't. Once in a while though I will want to eat a big steak or some gummy candies and I give in to it as long as it is not too often.

I have thought about it and will give the whey protein a try and by splitting up the meals(dinner, however, will always be the biggest meal of the day for me). I also drink a lot of water(at least a glass) with my meals and I have heard that this might not be very good.
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Old 05-20-07, 05:40 PM   #10
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If you really want to put on some decent gains, you are supposed to eat 1g of protein for every pound that you weigh. Also, try taking Creatine Monohydrate, it helps add on the muscle that you want.
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Old 05-23-07, 07:45 AM   #11
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Protein shakes = good!

Food is anabolic!

You don't want to build muscle like a bodybuilder? No problem. Just don't take steroids. Seriously, if the average person trains like a body builder, they will lean out, build some nicely proportioned muscle, and look great. But they will not get huge, body builder-like physiques.

The non-average person, with great genetics and a large supply of testesterone may get that type of body. Otherwise, it requires drugs.
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Old 05-23-07, 08:48 AM   #12
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Protein shakes = good!

Food is anabolic!
Protein shakes are not food.

They're waste products that they used to feed to pigs, now sold to gullible humans at 10,000 per cent markup.
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Old 05-23-07, 09:54 AM   #13
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Protein shakes are not food.

They're waste products that they used to feed to pigs, now sold to gullible humans at 10,000 per cent markup.
Please stop posting. Some gullible newbie might think you know what you're talking about.

By the way - Many Europeans won't eat corn because they're animal fodder. Do you eat corn? Many cultures like to eat eyes, brains, and offal of certain animals - not to mention animals such as horse, dog, cat, etc. Do you eat those things?
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Old 05-23-07, 11:01 AM   #14
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Protein shakes are not food.

They're waste products that they used to feed to pigs, now sold to gullible humans at 10,000 per cent markup.
I separated the whey comment and the food comment on purpose. Sorry if it wasn't clear. Whey is food, as it has calories, but nutritionally, it's very one dimensional, so personally I don't count it as food. Food itself is anabolic.

The stuff you say about whey may be true, but so is the science behind liquid protein supplementation after a bout of exercise. Nothing gullible about people who use it.
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Old 05-23-07, 11:08 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aikigreg
Please stop posting. Some gullible newbie might think you know what you're talking about.

By the way - Many Europeans won't eat corn because they're animal fodder. Do you eat corn? Many cultures like to eat eyes, brains, and offal of certain animals - not to mention animals such as horse, dog, cat, etc. Do you eat those things?
Funny story - when I was in Germany, a buddy of mine got a German farmer to stuff the back of his VW with fresh corn (animal feed, right?) for 10 marks. He brought it to the pension where we all were staying and we had a huge corn feed. Another time I was riding my bike on a tiny country road and I started to get hungrier and hungrier. Finally I figured it out! Potatoes! After a bit more I came up on a horse-drawn cart with a gigantic pot holding about 100 gallons of boiling potatoes. Hog feed? I never knew.

Whey protein is good stuff, and very cheap protein if you figure it by the pound. It's so cheap that it must be a by-product of some sort of industrial milk processing. I always wonder what that is. If they also feed it to pigs - lucky pigs! If you do some googling, you can find out quite a bit about protein conversion ratios - feed to protein weight on the hog. They do very well. As much as a 5:1 conversion ratio. Don't you wish we could do so well!
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