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  1. #1
    Senior Member StalkerZERO's Avatar
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    Maintaining weight-loss post ride meal: did I mess up??

    Somebody tell me if I messed up with my post ride meal please?

    A 4 hour, 10 laps around prospect park (brooklyn) work out ride with a time trial all the way back home = 2400 calories burned, 134 average low bpm and 175 average high.

    My meal was a 12 inch subway sandwich which consisted of:

    12 inch honey/oat bread
    Turkey (double meat)
    spinach
    tomatoes
    onions
    green peppers
    sweet peppers
    spicy mustard
    oil/vinegar
    pepper

    Afterwards I still had the munchies so I had a couple handfuls of chopped walnuts.
    All washed down with some evian water.

    Did I over do it?
    Last edited by StalkerZERO; 05-31-07 at 09:03 AM.

  2. #2
    Twincities MN kuan's Avatar
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    You shouldn't drink Evian. Really, rots your gut.

    You're fine! That's like what I eat on my days off!

  3. #3
    Senior Member StalkerZERO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kuan
    You shouldn't drink Evian. Really, rots your gut.

    You're fine! That's like what I eat on my days off!
    Cool. .........wait though..........you were kidding about the evian.........right?

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by StalkerZERO
    Somebody tell me if I messed up with my post ride meal please?

    A 4 hour, 10 laps around prospec park (brooklyn) work out ride with a time trial all the way back home = 2400 calories burned, 134 average low bpm and 175 average high.

    My meal was a 12 inch subway sandwich which consisted of:

    12 inch honey/oat bread
    Turkey (double meat)
    spinach
    tomatoes
    onions
    green peppers
    sweet peppers
    spicy mustard
    oil/vinegar
    pepper

    Afterwards I still had the munchies so I had a couple handfuls of chopped walnuts.
    All washed down with some evian water.

    Did I over do it?
    That's a bit light on the carbs. You might want to do something specific for recovery instead of having a normal meal - I know that they say that real food is as good, but that's not the way it works out for me.

    Today I did 59 miles in 3:51 with 4K of climbing (with pretty much no paceline at all). I had accelerade during the ride, a bagel, and a few newtons. Afterwards I had Endurox and half a subway sandwich, and that was enough until dinner time.

    I'm convinced that if you keep the blood sugar up during the ride and get good recovery nutrition that you don't have to replace the fat that you burned.

    Oh, and how did you figure out that you burnt 2400 calories?
    Eric

    2005 Trek 5.2 Madone, Red with Yellow Flames (Beauty)
    199x Lemond Tourmalet, Yellow with fenders (Beast)

    Read my cycling blog at http://riderx.info/blogs/riderx
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  5. #5
    Senior Member StalkerZERO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ericgu
    That's a bit light on the carbs. You might want to do something specific for recovery instead of having a normal meal - I know that they say that real food is as good, but that's not the way it works out for me.

    Today I did 59 miles in 3:51 with 4K of climbing (with pretty much no paceline at all). I had accelerade during the ride, a bagel, and a few newtons. Afterwards I had Endurox and half a subway sandwich, and that was enough until dinner time.

    I'm convinced that if you keep the blood sugar up during the ride and get good recovery nutrition that you don't have to replace the fat that you burned.

    Oh, and how did you figure out that you burnt 2400 calories?
    Actually, lemme detail everything I had today.

    Before I went out I had a liquid breakfast from the blender which consisted of:

    2 cups soy milk
    three pills of creatine
    4 tiny papaya extract pills
    2 vitamin C pills
    plenty of ice
    and 4 scoops of muscle milk light (vanilla)

    A couple hours later and then I was off for the ride.
    Along with the ride I had a bottle of cytomax (orange flavor) to have while I was riding. After the ride and before the long trek back home I took a gel. And yes I did also have regular water with me.

    Just before home when I had started to cramp I did mention I had an accelerade. And just before the sandwich I took 3 more creatine pills (3 pills is a single dose).
    I'm more concerned with maintaining muscle than maintaining fat. If I end up loosing a little fat from all of this then the better.

    Oh, and the calorie burn count was from the heart rate monitor I was using.

    EDIT: And one more thing. I didn't end up eating dinner. The subway lunch was kinda late so I called it lunch/dinner.
    Last edited by StalkerZERO; 05-28-07 at 11:02 PM.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by StalkerZERO
    Somebody tell me if I messed up with my post ride meal please?

    A 4 hour, 10 laps around prospec park (brooklyn) work out ride with a time trial all the way back home = 2400 calories burned, 134 average low bpm and 175 average high.

    My meal was a 12 inch subway sandwich which consisted of:

    12 inch honey/oat bread
    Turkey (double meat)
    spinach
    tomatoes
    onions
    green peppers
    sweet peppers
    spicy mustard
    oil/vinegar
    pepper

    Afterwards I still had the munchies so I had a couple handfuls of chopped walnuts.
    All washed down with some evian water.

    Did I over do it?

    I don't know for you, but I could not handle the meat/nuts very well. I prefer to focus on fast burning carbs with little meat/fat to achieve faster glycogen/blood-sugar recovery. I'll do the protein/fat intake much later in the day or the next day if I exercise late. Otherwise, the fatigue lingers.

    Al

  7. #7
    Recumbent Ninja
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    If you wanted to be "perfect," you should have had a recovery drink immediately after your ride, then about 40 mintes later had the sub, and 2 hours later had the nuts. For the best effect, don't mix carbs and fats in the same meal.

  8. #8
    Senior Member StalkerZERO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aikigreg
    If you wanted to be "perfect," you should have had a recovery drink immediately after your ride, then about 40 mintes later had the sub, and 2 hours later had the nuts. For the best effect, don't mix carbs and fats in the same meal.
    What would be considered a healthy fast burning carb? And what recovery drinks do you guys use? I don't mind fast burning carbs but I want to stay away from the unhealthy sugars.

  9. #9
    Recumbent Ninja
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    Well, there IS a time and place for "unhealthy" sugars, and that time is right after training. Any other time and it gives an insulin spike that is detrimental. But taken right AFTER training, that spike helps shunt the necessary nutrients into your muscles to begin the recovery process.

    I use biotest surge and have for years - IMO it is the best engineered product on the market. Many here just buy what they know from cycling companies, but I believe the 2:1 ratio of carb to protein surge provides is superior. There are other ways to do something close though - whey and gatorade for example.


    A couple mistakes you made, though. 1. Get rid of the soy milk. 2. you should eat every 2-3 hours whether you're hungry or not - matter of fact, you don't WANT to be hungry. So eat something, even if it's just some cottage cheese, beef jerky, a low-carb protein shake, something. I don't know what you weigh, but it looks like you ate way too little today, which accounts for the massive calorie intake at Subway. Eat more earlier. 5-6 meals a day with protein each meal. You can count the post-workout shake as a meal if you like. I eat 8 times a day most days and I gain fat EASILY. The carbs in the post-workout shake won't hurt.

  10. #10
    Killing Rabbits
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    Quote Originally Posted by aikigreg
    . I eat 8 times a day most days and I gain fat EASILY.
    Most people try to avoid that.

  11. #11
    Senior Member StalkerZERO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aikigreg
    Well, there IS a time and place for "unhealthy" sugars, and that time is right after training. Any other time and it gives an insulin spike that is detrimental. But taken right AFTER training, that spike helps shunt the necessary nutrients into your muscles to begin the recovery process.

    I use biotest surge and have for years - IMO it is the best engineered product on the market. Many here just buy what they know from cycling companies, but I believe the 2:1 ratio of carb to protein surge provides is superior. There are other ways to do something close though - whey and gatorade for example.


    A couple mistakes you made, though. 1. Get rid of the soy milk. 2. you should eat every 2-3 hours whether you're hungry or not - matter of fact, you don't WANT to be hungry. So eat something, even if it's just some cottage cheese, beef jerky, a low-carb protein shake, something. I don't know what you weigh, but it looks like you ate way too little today, which accounts for the massive calorie intake at Subway. Eat more earlier. 5-6 meals a day with protein each meal. You can count the post-workout shake as a meal if you like. I eat 8 times a day most days and I gain fat EASILY. The carbs in the post-workout shake won't hurt.
    Whats up with everybody and soy milk. Its good stuff. It helped me tremendously in my weight loss and helps me in my weekly diet. I specifically use 8th continent light plain flavor. And in case there is any munchies I have fruit (apples, pears), also seedless dates sometimes and some walnuts. And frequently I munch on wasa crip bread crackers......fiber rye flavor. I spread some peanut butter on it with some low sugar blackberry jam....mmm mmm.

    The calorie intake with the sandwich ingredients I described was considered "massive"?

  12. #12
    Senior Member StalkerZERO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enthalpic
    Most people try to avoid that.
    lol umm...I'm trying to avoid that too.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enthalpic
    Most people try to avoid that.
    Try to avoid what? Gaining fat? Yes I know - it's one of the reasons why I eat 8 times a day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by StalkerZERO
    Whats up with everybody and soy milk. Its good stuff. It helped me tremendously in my weight loss and helps me in my weekly diet. I specifically use 8th continent light plain flavor. And in case there is any munchies I have fruit (apples, pears), also seedless dates sometimes and some walnuts. And frequently I munch on wasa crip bread crackers......fiber rye flavor. I spread some peanut butter on it with some low sugar blackberry jam....mmm mmm.

    The calorie intake with the sandwich ingredients I described was considered "massive"?

    Given that it was your biggest meal of the day - yes, by comparison, it was.

  15. #15
    Twincities MN kuan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aikigreg
    For the best effect, don't mix carbs and fats in the same meal.
    I read that somewhere before, maybe here. Why is that again?

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by kuan
    I read that somewhere before, maybe here. Why is that again?
    Well, to oversimplify things: If your body is going to store calories as fat cells on your body, then excess calories from protein and carbohydrates must be converted to fat. That takes energy to do - it's called the thermic effect of food. It's one reason why higher protein diets work so well. Therefore you actually BURN calories when your body STORES calories.

    However, it doesn't take caloric expenditure to convert fat to fat. So if you consume fat and carbs, your body uses the carbs as immediate fuel and stores the fat, since it's energy saving to do so.

  17. #17
    Down 10# and 11 inches Ginny's Avatar
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    hmmm.
    Good to know!
    *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
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  18. #18
    Senior Member DannoXYZ's Avatar
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    Conversion efficiency is roughly as follows:

    carbs --> 60% fat
    protein --> 75% fat
    fats --> 99% fat

    So in order gain 1-lb of fat on the body, you can eat the following excess calories:

    carbs = 5833 calories
    protein = 4666 calories
    fats = 3535 calories

    You only need to eat a little bit of fat to pile it onto the body. You can get away with eating a lot more carbs & proteins before you pile on an equivalent amount of fat. Not to mention that fats are more dense to begin with. So an extra plate of fettucini alfredo will pile on 1-lb from fats in the cheese-sauce and about 0.25-lbs from the pasta.

  19. #19
    Twincities MN kuan's Avatar
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    You might as well inject the fat you eat right under your skin. Your gut can't turn fat into sugar so guess where it goes?

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by aikigreg
    If you wanted to be "perfect," you should have had a recovery drink immediately after your ride, then about 40 mintes later had the sub, and 2 hours later had the nuts. For the best effect, don't mix carbs and fats in the same meal.
    +10

    If you are hungry 30-45 minutes after your recovery meal and/or you have munchies afterwards, you didn't do a good job with the immediate recovery.

    I've had great luck with endurox. Monday we did a hilly (4000' elevation gain, with a lot of 8-12% hills) 59 miles in a bit under 4 hours. I had three bottles of accelerade on the ride, a bagel, and 3 newtons, and then a serving of endurox afterwards. One the way home I had a 6" subway sandwich and a cookie (and a coke), and that was all I had until dinner. And I felt good enough to do another hilly 1500 last night.
    Eric

    2005 Trek 5.2 Madone, Red with Yellow Flames (Beauty)
    199x Lemond Tourmalet, Yellow with fenders (Beast)

    Read my cycling blog at http://riderx.info/blogs/riderx
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  21. #21
    Senior Member StalkerZERO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aikigreg
    Try to avoid what? Gaining fat? Yes I know - it's one of the reasons why I eat 8 times a day.
    lol its just the way you worded it made it seem like your specific goal was to gain fat. It was a bit confusing.

  22. #22
    Senior Member StalkerZERO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ericgu
    +10

    If you are hungry 30-45 minutes after your recovery meal and/or you have munchies afterwards, you didn't do a good job with the immediate recovery.

    I've had great luck with endurox. Monday we did a hilly (4000' elevation gain, with a lot of 8-12% hills) 59 miles in a bit under 4 hours. I had three bottles of accelerade on the ride, a bagel, and 3 newtons, and then a serving of endurox afterwards. One the way home I had a 6" subway sandwich and a cookie (and a coke), and that was all I had until dinner. And I felt good enough to do another hilly 1500 last night.
    Ok, I think I've learned a little here but of course I have more to learn. So this saturday I'm going to try a repeat performance but I will have some endurox to help with the recovery. And perhaps I will have some accelerade with me instead of the cytomax. Or should I have the cytomax during the ride and use the accelerade after the ride and also this endurox?

    What is endurox anyway? =/

  23. #23
    Don't Believe the Hype RiPHRaPH's Avatar
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    lots of good suggestions here. You should not curb calories immediately after the ride. Your glycogen window is slight, and you should fill up on carb's right after the ride (the sooner the better)
    A yogurt and an energy drink (Cytomax, Accelerade, Endurox, et al)

    After that you've got the rest of the day to catch up. The first 20-30 minutes after you stop riding is the most crucial and will guide your recovery for the rest of the day/night.

    There are two types of food. Fiber and fat. Fruits and veggies are pushed, not due to the vitamins, but for the fiber and water content. Then there are animal fats. Colon cancer is the #2 cancer in men and women because fiber, which attracts water thus flushes out toxins, etc is lacking and fat, which repels water, thus keeping more toxins inside.

    You know your body better than anyone else. After the recovery drink, or similar (50/50 OJ and water, chocolate milk, etc) then fats are empty calories (think of your recovery foods as fuel)> And remember to obey your thirst.
    I have enough words to get me into trouble, but not enough to get me out of trouble.

  24. #24
    Recumbent Ninja
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    re: cytomax and accellerade. Cytomax is mostly maltodextrin, and accelerade is mostly simple sugar + a tiny amount of protein. When i tried to do all accellerade on a long hard century, I got bad stomach cramps - too much simple sugar for too long. Now I mix the two, with a bit more protein, and am very pleased by the results.

  25. #25
    Senior Member StalkerZERO's Avatar
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    Ok guys. Help me determine whether I messed up on the fueling pre and post run.
    I went running up the west side of manhattan on my lunch hour today. *whispers* don't tell anyone but my boss let me go out for nearly two hours without making a big deal out of it.

    I usually eat a low carb breakfast wrap in the morning which usually consists of egg whites, tomatoes,onions,green peppers, and two slices of turkey. I have it with my vitamin pills and water.
    After all the talk we've been having I decided to alter today's diet in anticipation of the run.
    My breakfast consisted of:

    One bagel with peanut butter
    One cup of a yogurt,assorted fruit pieces and granola parfait (freshly made)
    my usual vitamins and water
    But being that this was my co-workers retirement party day I also had a donut.

    Right before the run itself I took a powerbar gel plain flavor and I had a bottle of cytomax to have on the run. I started near battery park and (after I stretched and warmed up) had a nice run at a medium pace all the way to 34th street and then back to battery park.
    And yes I went out today friday which was pretty dang hot.
    My running style is with forefoot striking which works for me since I have those new newtonrunning shoes.
    Anyways, after the run this is what I had:

    bottle of amino vital pro
    one powerbar performance energy bar (vanilla crisp flavor)

    After about 45 minutes of resting I then felt ok to have a real lunch which consisted of:

    turkey sandwich which had.....
    Smoked turkey
    7 grain bread
    lettuce
    tomato
    onions
    mustard
    pesto

    But I still felt funny and a bit hungry so I also had a left over bagel from this mornings office party with cream cheese.
    So how did I do? Did I mess up with the bagel? Did I mess up at all anywhere?

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