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  1. #1
    Now Racer Ex Vinokurtov's Avatar
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    Soy Protien Causing Cramps

    I had been adding a small amount of soy protein to my drink mix for the second bottle on longer events. And I've been having constant cramping issues for the same amount of time. Being rather slow, it took me nearly two years to try it without. 5 hours into a road race in 90 degree heat and not one cramp.

    Started talking to people who had the same type of issues, some of them were using another commercial product that had protein as their drink of choice. Checked the label. Soy.

    No mas protien until I figure something else out. Whey protein gives me horrible gas and stomach issues, but no cramps.

    Suggestions? Comments?
    "I may not be as strong as I think I am, but I know many tricks, and I have resolution" - Santiago

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    I had a similar problem with the soy milk I was using in my cereal. After about 10 days I would get stomach aches and feel sick. I would stop a month then try again with the same results.

    Al

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    Senior Member slim_77's Avatar
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    If soy and whey are problematic try egg protein. I can not comment as I have never used it, but it is an alternative and comes in similar forms (dry/mix).

    OR, why consume the protein on the bike? Why not keep the drinks simple carbs? Afterall, they will offer you more immediate benefit than protein will. [Or am I missing something?] If consuming protein is necessary why not an edible solid form? NYStrip in the left jersey pocket?

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    Now Racer Ex Vinokurtov's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slim_77
    OR, why consume the protein on the bike? Why not keep the drinks simple carbs? Afterall, they will offer you more immediate benefit than protein will. [Or am I missing something?]
    There's been a couple of studies, one out of AIS I believe, that have shown better sustained performance using a 4:1 carb/protien intake for exercise longer than one hour...
    "I may not be as strong as I think I am, but I know many tricks, and I have resolution" - Santiago

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinokurtov
    There's been a couple of studies, one out of AIS I believe, that have shown better sustained performance using a 4:1 carb/protien intake for exercise longer than one hour...
    According to Ryan's Sports Nutrition for Edurance Athletes (2nd edition), the only thing known for sure about 4:1 is that it doesn't slow the absorption of carbs.

    Al

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    Senior Member slim_77's Avatar
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    ...I think I may have cursed myself after posting above. On and after long rides, 50+ mi, the whey in my bars and recovery is giving me "digestive probs"....

    Going along the same lines as Vino, why would I notice this after a distance workout? I never had probs before or after intervals, but these long rides seem to trigger something. Any guesses?

  7. #7
    Justice for cyclists
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    It's to do with the body's choice of energy source... the percentages of fat/protein/carb metabolised during exercise changes over time. If I remember rightly, when you've been exercising for a long time, your body starts to use carbs almost exclusively, so as your ride gets longer you should eat something that contains almost exclusively carbs to avoid stomach upset. Eat protein and fat after the ride.

    however I can't find the articles I read about metabolism during exercise, so I could be completely wrong.
    Last edited by Ropopompom; 07-15-07 at 02:01 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinokurtov
    I had been adding a small amount of soy protein to my drink mix for the second bottle on longer events. And I've been having constant cramping issues for the same amount of time. Being rather slow, it took me nearly two years to try it without. 5 hours into a road race in 90 degree heat and not one cramp.

    Started talking to people who had the same type of issues, some of them were using another commercial product that had protein as their drink of choice. Checked the label. Soy.

    No mas protien until I figure something else out. Whey protein gives me horrible gas and stomach issues, but no cramps.

    Suggestions? Comments?
    If there's any truism in hydration drinks, it's that different things work for different people. Some people have problems with soy protein, some have problems with whey protein.
    Eric

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinokurtov
    There's been a couple of studies, one out of AIS I believe, that have shown better sustained performance using a 4:1 carb/protien intake for exercise longer than one hour...
    You can find the studies referenced on the accelerade site. IIRC, there are 4 studies out there, two of them funded by pacific health, and two of them independent.

    I tend to have less leg pain with the protein in the drink.
    Eric

    2005 Trek 5.2 Madone, Red with Yellow Flames (Beauty)
    199x Lemond Tourmalet, Yellow with fenders (Beast)

    Read my cycling blog at http://riderx.info/blogs/riderx
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    For those having digestive problems, are you lactose intolerant? Whey protein tears me up most of the time. I was mixing soy protein in with whey, and noticed that soy may contain lactose from various ingrediants. I decided to try whey protein from goat's milk that I got at GNC and it doesn't cause me problems. The vanilla is a lot better than the chocolate.

    I have no idea why the cramps are happening though.

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    I have a friend who has major stomach problems. It is a medical condition, so he works around it. Anyway, most protein powders gave him gas. I happened to have a few different brands on hand so I gave him a sampling to see the reactions.

    First I gave him MetRx, which made him very gassy. The Dorian Yates protein gave him less gas. The EAS gave him no upset what so ever. I believe in a mixture of fast and slow absorbing proteins, so as we discuss, none are just a whey or soy of milk, etc. But as you can see, different brands resulted in different gas levels. You may have to try a different brand.

  12. #12
    It's ALL base... DScott's Avatar
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    From what I understand, HEED (carbohydrates only) is recommended for shorter rides, while Perpetuem (carb/protein mix) is rcommended for longer rides. My sense is "short" is condsidered several housrs, while "longer" is the 4-5 hour plus range.

    The long distance riders like Perptuem, it seems. However, it uses a soy protein and may not solve the cramping problem.

    One discussion o the LD cycling forum: Help! My fueling just isn't working...

    Hammer's discussion of the differences: http://www.e-caps.com/za/HNT?PAGE=AR...RTICLE.ID=1252

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    Senior Member HDWound's Avatar
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    You're talking about muscle cramps, not stomach issues correct?



    You're in too good of shape

    http://www.peakscoachinggroup.com/fr...le_cramps.html



    Most of the info I read on muscle cramps is widely varied, but none of it mentioned consuming any kind of protein as a cause.

  14. #14
    bac
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al.canoe
    According to Ryan's Sports Nutrition for Edurance Athletes (2nd edition), the only thing known for sure about 4:1 is that it doesn't slow the absorption of carbs.

    Al
    Right. I wouldn't be so quick to jump on the 4:1 protein fad - especially if you have cramping issues. It may be the protein, and not the fact that it's soy protein that's cramping you.

    ... Brad

  15. #15
    Now Racer Ex Vinokurtov's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HDWound
    You're talking about muscle cramps, not stomach issues correct?



    You're in too good of shape

    http://www.peakscoachinggroup.com/fr...le_cramps.html



    Most of the info I read on muscle cramps is widely varied, but none of it mentioned consuming any kind of protein as a cause.
    Interesting article and I concur that suppleness through stretching (and I found roller massage also helps) is called for.

    It's been several months since I went away from the soy protein and I haven't had a cramp since. I wish I had had this idea much sooner, I gave up a lot in races this year because of the problem, at least two wins I can think of.
    "I may not be as strong as I think I am, but I know many tricks, and I have resolution" - Santiago

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    Senior Member HDWound's Avatar
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    Is there any chance your in-race carb intake changed (increased) since you stopped the soy or has your pre-race fueling been better or any different?

    Based on what I've read, just wondering as that could be a possible cause (not enough carbs for energy-then the cramps start regardless of the protein you had been consuming). Also mentioned were, zinc, magnesium, and calcium deficiencies causing cramps, but many athletes that got cramps were found to have no deficiency in those areas. Based on your performance from your posts, I'm still going with 'you're simply in too good of shape'

    I just wish I could figure out why the soy protein bothers my stomach so much on the bike. Off the bike it produces no side effects.

  17. #17
    Now Racer Ex Vinokurtov's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HDWound
    Is there any chance your in-race carb intake changed (increased) since you stopped the soy or has your pre-race fueling been better or any different?

    Based on what I've read, just wondering as that could be a possible cause (not enough carbs for energy-then the cramps start regardless of the protein you had been consuming). Also mentioned were, zinc, magnesium, and calcium deficiencies causing cramps, but many athletes that got cramps were found to have no deficiency in those areas. Based on your performance from your posts, I'm still going with 'you're simply in too good of shape'

    I just wish I could figure out why the soy protein bothers my stomach so much on the bike. Off the bike it produces no side effects.
    I load up pretty heavily on carbs, take multiple mineral supplements (Mg Ca and sodium), Etc. Kept coming back to the protein. Since cutting it out I've had zero issues.

    And I'm experiencing the same thing as you, I tolerate it fine during recovery.
    "I may not be as strong as I think I am, but I know many tricks, and I have resolution" - Santiago

  18. #18
    OM boy cyclezen's Avatar
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    aside from significant claims that soy protein causes all sorts of 'conditions', its generally accepted that soy, unless heavily and properly processed, contains a number of protein and essential mineral uptake inhibitors. Plain old cookin removes none of the inhibitors. Add in the other possible issues, complete lack of any taste, low level protein compared to other sources and there's not much to speak well about.
    Except, it'll grow just about anywhere, lives well with weeds, effective in crop rotation and the blu****t and marketing meter is set to a lot of 'ca-ching'.
    I won't even feed it to my pets.
    Hard stuff to avoid, so I don;t amp out on tiny amounts, but worth the effort avoiding in any large amounts...
    keep shippin it overseas!...

    read about it, you decide

    Edit: BTW - high levels of Phytic Acid (sp?) shown to block the absorption of iron, calcium, zinc and magnesium, who knows whatelse...
    Last edited by cyclezen; 07-17-07 at 12:49 PM.

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