the shark

I have read a few articles on this by Carmichaels where he basically says unless you have tons of time to do Endurance L2/3 rides, then you are better of doing a combination of this and some higher intensity in the Fall.

I noticedthis in antother thread where the person (nomadVW) reccomended the following:

1 day per week ride for 1-1 1/2 hours STEADY @ 92-95% of threshold heart rate (the shorter you ride, the closer to 95% you go) (research Sweet Spot Training) (provided you've tested for LTHR to get maximal effectiveness from your HRM). One other day per week ride 2x20 intervals @ 95-100% LTHR, or 3x20's @ 95%. Then on any other days ride L.2

Can the epxerts comment on this and come up with a schedule for building base on 5-8 hrs a week?

My goal is have a more structured plan for next year, and I do a few sprint triathlon's and time trials.

Mark

slim_77

I think NomadVW did exactly that...

I am on the same limited schedule and will be working off a similar routine, but I am going to more focus my efforts (and budget my time) after January. You don't really need tons of hours to train for sprint, just use them as best you can.

king-tony

There are several good resources out there. IF you are only training with an HRM, then HEart Zones Cycling by Edwards and Reed does a good job of explaining how to setup a trianing plan and use periodization regardless of the time that you have to invest. Basically they come up with a points system based on time in each zone. For example if your target is 600 points you could spend 600 minutes @ level 1, 300 @ 2 etc. Obviously you would not spend all of your time in one zone, but this helps to understand the theory. It is pretty good especially if you have not had formal plans before.

If you are using a power meter than I would go with Training and Racing with a Power Meter by Allan and Coggan.

Richard Cranium

You have the right ideas. You'll have to use your smarts to adjust an optimal schedule.

Basically, the problem is that usually high-intensity training is supported by a larger quantity of base training. Otherwise injury or staleness in sues....

JPradun

Being able to calculate your TSS score and train based on that number is probably the better way to go -- even if you are using a HR value instead of a power meter. Some people train solely off the amount of work they do per week and gradually increase it with great success (ie, cat4-cat2 in 1 season). Training off TSS is similar to doing that.

If you want a specific plan you need to make one yourself or find a good coach. There is plenty of reading on the internet to get enough information to do so. SST is one of the many methods, and it's one variation I will be using this winter.

NomadVW 

Well, not really exactly that because I'm on virtually unlimited time. I rode 15 hrs per week through the end of spring, but have been pushing 17-18 hrs since the end of June. That's allowed me to do a lot more "ride lots."

That being said, 2 days of almost every week are focused toward SST time and threshold improvement. I'll occasionally fore go the threshold improvement and do some VO2max work to keep the ceiling for functional threshold improvement high.

Measuring your training load using a powermeter and the principles in TSS, ATL, CTL, TSB has been invaluable for me at the amount I've trained this year.

That being said, the point of base training is to establish your aerobic "long range" ability. If your long range events are 1-2 hours, you don't need to ride 4 hours at a stretch all winter to get that aerobic base. Coggan has said a number of times, and I believe him from my own anecdotal personal experience, that your functional threshold power ( 1 hour power ) is one of the greatest indicators of that fitness. This would lead you to believe that improving 1 hour power should be a staple of your "base training."

I'll also note that while my functional threshold power has not changed drastically over the last 4-5 months, my power curve beyond 1 hour has flattened out significantly because of the large amount of training volume I'm maintaining. The difference for me is that the majority of my racing this year has been 2-4 hours in length, so a flat power curve has been pretty critical for me in longer events.

Next year when I start racing the US Cat structure, my cat 4 and many cat 3 races will initially change pretty drastically in style/length. That flat power curve outside an hour will do me no good whatsoever on races lasting 45 minutes. My training will change the focus on improving the shorter range power to meet the demands of the events I intend to race.

slim_77

[QUOTE=NomadVW;5538814]Well, not really exactly that because I'm on virtually unlimited time.QUOTE]


...Right, I just meant the OP's sum of your other post.

NomadVW 

Ahh... yeah. That

the shark

OK- I have an older book by Sally Edwards and Friels book and other articles on training about zones etc.

What would be the best way to come up with the eqivalent of what you guys refer to as SST / Sweet Spot training?


What zone is this or how would you express it as a % of LT. Example my Avg HR for a 20 min time trial is 165.

If I used Friels zones I would end up with these zones:

zones %LTHR Low High
z1 66-85 105 136
z2 86-91 137 145
z3 91-95 146 153
z4 96-99 154 159
z5 100-102 160 163
103-105 164 169
106+ 170 177

Where does SST / Sweet Spot training end up being in this? Someone said b/T Tempo and Threshold, so this is High Z3 and Low 4, for me then around ( 148-155) - Is this correct?

What is the TSS core - power term I guess, but the equiv in HR?

Anything else I need to figure this out?

Enthalpic

It is a pretty big zone.
https://www.fascatcoaching.com/sweetspot.html

VanceMac

That's a great graph. It doesn't even hint at all the different ways you should be dividing up your training (intervals, etc), but I think if everyone just starting out had a basic understanding of that graph, it would be a significant advantage.

JPradun

See this page: https://www.cyclingpeakssoftware.com/power411/levels.asp

For me, SST is about 90-95% of LTHR. As I get used to this damn trainer, I'm sure I can increase it to ~97% of my LTHR.

Ignore the Friel numbers for now and just train off your LTHR. Figure out the range based on the website I gave you. There is a column for HR.

the shark

THX - I will revew the site and graph etc.

SST -appears to be Z3:
One question that comes to mind is that books and people of said - Stay out of Zone 3, either got to 2 and train Aerobic, or go to Z4 and train Anaerobic. Referred to Z3 as no mans land - junk miles, not training hard enough or easy enough.

Again - my end goals for this is to end up with a Training Plan that:

-Maximizes time on bike - most bang for buck
-Bring about best results for 6-8 HRs on bike
-Structured to factor in benefits of Periodization but not too complicated
-Has variety of workouts for each time of year
-Can be self coached
-Ready for Sprints - longest ride of 18 miles

I assume many have similar goals, but willing to be more complex-detailed with power Etc, but I am no real racer or podium person. Just happy to beat my friends and be top 15-25% Age Group.

LT Intolerant

Man that is sooooo on the money! For example I feel like I wasted a lot of time using group rides to gain fitness before I had a good understanding of the benefits of SST.

The breakthrough for me came early this year when a coach analyzed my power files. I thought I was putting in tons of time at threshold, especially on group rides, but it was not the case.

When this coach looked at one of my typical "Sunday Worlds" group ride files he said, "that's a great neuromuscular (i.e., sprint) workout with lots of L1 & L2". Most of my hard efforts were 20 seconds to 2 minutes, with lots of recovery while sitting in.

So we added 2-3, 40-90 minute SST sessions to my program (sometimes before and after group rides) and my FTP (my weakness) started to rise. Now that I "get it" if I cut back on anything it's not SST, but rather the L1-3 stuff that makes up a lot of the typical group rides that I do.

Bottom line is I wish I had REALLY had access to, studied, and internalized that chart and the implications a LOOONG time ago.

gene r

tfro

This might be obvious to you already, but you can get SST in a group ride, just spend more time at the front especially this time of year where the pace tends to be more consistent. Or find a faster group that you have to work just to hang on.