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  1. #1
    '05 NUEser EJ123's Avatar
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    Well winter is coming

    Anyone here planning on supplementing with cod liver oil or something else for Vitamin D, since odds are we won't be getting as much sun this winter?

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    Long Distance Cyclist Machka's Avatar
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    Nope.

    And why aren't we going to get as much sun this winter? So far it's been very sunny.

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    Senior Member AnthonyG's Avatar
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    Yes I've been taking cod liver oil (halibut liver oil) each winter for a while and when you realise for yourself that your usual winter blues are gone and you feel OK then the taste of cod liver oil is realy trivial. Capsules make it even easier.

    Regards, Anthony

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    '05 NUEser EJ123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machka View Post
    Nope.

    And why aren't we going to get as much sun this winter? So far it's been very sunny.
    For various reasons.

    1) During the winter months, it's more common for people to stay indoors and thus become less exposed to sunlight.

    2) During the winter months, the sun's rays come in at too oblique an angle to spur the skin to create vitamin D sufficiently.

    3) During the winter months, it's very common for people to experience the seasonal feeling of depression or frequent fatique, which may result in less sunshine also if residing indoors.

    4) Well sunlight isn't out as much, and if one is exposed depending on time of day, see #2.

  5. #5
    Long Distance Cyclist Machka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJ123 View Post
    For various reasons.

    1) During the winter months, it's more common for people to stay indoors and thus become less exposed to sunlight.

    2) During the winter months, the sun's rays come in at too oblique an angle to spur the skin to create vitamin D sufficiently.

    3) During the winter months, it's very common for people to experience the seasonal feeling of depression or frequent fatique, which may result in less sunshine also if residing indoors.

    4) Well sunlight isn't out as much, and if one is exposed depending on time of day, see #2.
    That happens every winter ... why is "this winter" different from any other before it?

    Also why would the seasonal feeling of depression or frequent fatigue cause less sunshine?


    Personally, I ward off SAD by fake baking.

  6. #6
    '05 NUEser EJ123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machka View Post
    That happens every winter ... why is "this winter" different from any other before it?

    Also why would the seasonal feeling of depression or frequent fatigue cause less sunshine?


    Personally, I ward off SAD by fake baking.
    I'm not implying this winter is any different.? As for your second statement, I said that if one were to experience those symptons, it's highly unlikely that the individual would be exposed outside long enough, presumably if one were to even leave the house.

  7. #7
    Long Distance Cyclist Machka's Avatar
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    SAD is basically caused by lack of daylight, and is treated by being exposed to ultra-bright lights (Light Therapy) ... such as what one would find in a tanning bed. Those with SAD don't stay cooped up in their homes ... they try to get out as much as possible. There is almost a craving for bright light.

    http://www.sada.org.uk/
    http://www.mooddisorderscanada.ca/depression/sad.htm

    I don't suffer from it severely, so for me, 10 or 15 minutes in the tanning bed a couple times a week, in combination with being outside as much as possible, and letting in as much sun as possible through the windows, is enough to keep my spirits and energy level up.

  8. #8
    Splicer of Molecules Nickel's Avatar
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    I take a calcium+D supplement, all-year. It's a good idea for anyone not near the equator.

  9. #9
    Long Distance Cyclist Machka's Avatar
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    EJ123 ... you don't live all that far off the equator. On your shortest day, you've got 10 hours of daylight. Not that much different from your longest day where you get 14 hours and 18 minutes of daylight. If I'm reading it right, your solar noon sun angle is about 80° in the summer and 34° in the winter. Even on your shortest day, it'll still be light out when you leave work, and likely when you go to work.

    http://www.timeanddate.com/worldcloc...&afl=-11&day=1
    http://www.timeanddate.com/worldcloc...&afl=-11&day=1

    Compare that to where I live where I get 17 hours of sun in the summer (and the solar noon sun angle is 59°) and 7.5 hours of sun in the winter (and the solar noon sun angle is 13°). The sun doesn't come up until I'm at work, and it is black as night when I leave.

    If we Canadians can make it through the winter with our extremely limited sunlight (and with the Vitamin D that our food is packed with), I don't think you southern Americans should have too much problem.

    However, have you experienced SAD in previous winters?

  10. #10
    Splicer of Molecules Nickel's Avatar
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    I think it can be slightly dangerous to suggest that if you live in the northern latitudes, you will be a-okay. There is correlation (not causation) that is suggesting that low levels of vitamin d are matching with the higher incidence of auto-immune diseases as you increase in latitude. Unless you drink a lot of milk products, know you are eating fortified meals or eating a lot of salmon/sardines, you might not be getting enough. The cod liver oil is more than sufficient (perhaps even close to the toxic limit).

    I am just overly cautious because I do not regularly consume milk so that is where I am coming from.

  11. #11
    Long Distance Cyclist Machka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickel View Post
    I think it can be slightly dangerous to suggest that if you live in the northern latitudes, you will be a-okay.
    Actually I'm suggesting just the opposite ... that living in the southern latitudes (like the OP does) gives him a better chance of being OK than it does me (who lives in the northern latitudes) ... because he's got lots of sun all year round.

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    '05 NUEser EJ123's Avatar
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    A better chance of being ok? Sure maybe slightly, but am I to go outside with little clothing in very cold tempertures? That doesn't seem rational. Why do you persist at denouncing any form of non-food supplementing? Especially because the vitamin D in the CLO is of natural source (well let me check with the manufacterer about that), rather than buying d3 in synthetic form.

  13. #13
    Senior Member socalrider's Avatar
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    I use the Twinlab Cod Liver Oil-Mint.. You have to take a little more servings wise to get the same effect as straight cod liver oil but there is zero fish taste.. It actually tastes like a creme de mint..

    http://www.vitacost.com/TwinlabNorwe...erOil-Mint12oz

  14. #14
    Long Distance Cyclist Machka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJ123 View Post
    A better chance of being ok? Sure maybe slightly, but am I to go outside with little clothing in very cold tempertures?
    Very cold temperatures ...... in Dallas Texas??????? R-I-G-H-T!! You can probably ride in outside in shorts all year round. Come to Canada in the winter sometime ... it'll freeze your nose hairs right off.


    BTW - you are aware you can overdose on vitamins ... right?

    http://chemo.net/newpage35.htm
    http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/e...cle/002596.htm
    http://www.vitamins-supplements.org/

    And a line from this one ... "Excess vitamins are a burden on the liver. This is why you will find people who get nauseous from vitamins" -- I'm one of those people, I become physically ill when I take vitamin pills.
    http://www.nutristart.com/health_news.php?id=4

    While you're busy researching all these things ... type 'vitamins "most expensive urine"' into Google sometime.

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    Kamek ralph12's Avatar
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    I think I get enough vitamin D from breakfast cereal. I wear sunscreen year-round and don't really spend any time in the sun without it.

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    Long Distance Cyclist Machka's Avatar
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    Vitamin D and Sun Exposure

    http://dietary-supplements.info.nih....s/vitamind.asp
    "Ten to fifteen minutes of sun exposure at least two times per week to the face, arms, hands, or back without sunscreen is usually sufficient to provide adequate vitamin D [14]."

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/he...-d-winter.html
    "our bodies create vitamin D when exposed to UVB rays from the sun. Generally, doctors recommend that 10 to 15 minutes outdoors at least twice a week in summer without sunscreen is adequate."

    "Dr. Holick advises, "Make sure the tanning salon bed puts out UVB. That’s done with medium-pressure lamps. High-pressure lamps only put out UVA, which will not make any vitamin D. With UVB rays, you won’t get a burn, you won’t even get much of a tan, but you’ll get lots of vitamin D.""

    "You don't want to overdo it, because too much vitamin D in the body can cause vomiting, raise blood levels of calcium causing confusion, and cause heart rhythm abnormalities. Health Canada warns exceeding the recommended limit could lead to an overdose that can cause kidney stones as well as damage to the heart, lungs and blood vessels."

    And also ...

    "While some people favour taking cod liver oil, believing vitamin D is absorbed more easily that way, Dr. Holick says it’s a myth."


    Just a few things to think about with regard to Vitamin D and winter.

  17. #17
    '05 NUEser EJ123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machka View Post
    Very cold temperatures ...... in Dallas Texas??????? R-I-G-H-T!! You can probably ride in outside in shorts all year round. Come to Canada in the winter sometime ... it'll freeze your nose hairs right off.


    BTW - you are aware you can overdose on vitamins ... right?

    http://chemo.net/newpage35.htm
    http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/e...cle/002596.htm
    http://www.vitamins-supplements.org/

    And a line from this one ... "Excess vitamins are a burden on the liver. This is why you will find people who get nauseous from vitamins" -- I'm one of those people, I become physically ill when I take vitamin pills.
    http://www.nutristart.com/health_news.php?id=4

    While you're busy researching all these things ... type 'vitamins "most expensive urine"' into Google sometime.

    Yes, I am aware of fat-solube vitamins building up and the toxicity resulting, but see I find almost all synthetic vitamins as unvaluable, opposed to blending up a smootheie with various fruits and veggies. And if you have ever been to Dallas, it does get fairly cold in the winter, as it has snowed/sleeted last year in late November and may last all the way to mid Feb. Anyways, I don't see what the big problem is in supplementing with CLO. Do you not agree that supplementation is beneficial when the individual lacks whichever substance? You are restating already understood information. When you look at the common statistics of the average individual's vitamin D level from their blood from summer to winter, it will almost always be lower. What is it you are trying to prove? A teaspoon of CLO is unnecessary for anyone who lacks the D?

  18. #18
    Senior Member AnthonyG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machka View Post
    Vitamin D and Sun Exposure

    http://dietary-supplements.info.nih....s/vitamind.asp
    "Ten to fifteen minutes of sun exposure at least two times per week to the face, arms, hands, or back without sunscreen is usually sufficient to provide adequate vitamin D [14]."

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/he...-d-winter.html
    "our bodies create vitamin D when exposed to UVB rays from the sun. Generally, doctors recommend that 10 to 15 minutes outdoors at least twice a week in summer without sunscreen is adequate."

    "Dr. Holick advises, "Make sure the tanning salon bed puts out UVB. That’s done with medium-pressure lamps. High-pressure lamps only put out UVA, which will not make any vitamin D. With UVB rays, you won’t get a burn, you won’t even get much of a tan, but you’ll get lots of vitamin D.""

    "You don't want to overdo it, because too much vitamin D in the body can cause vomiting, raise blood levels of calcium causing confusion, and cause heart rhythm abnormalities. Health Canada warns exceeding the recommended limit could lead to an overdose that can cause kidney stones as well as damage to the heart, lungs and blood vessels."

    And also ...

    "While some people favour taking cod liver oil, believing vitamin D is absorbed more easily that way, Dr. Holick says it’s a myth."


    Just a few things to think about with regard to Vitamin D and winter.
    I find that sort of paranoia in advising against vit A and vit D insane, paticuarly for Canadians. I live in sunny Australia near Canberra. Canberra is the coldest city during an Australian winter but its still usualy sunny most of the time. I'm a courier driver so I spend plenty of time outdoors.

    So given all that I take halibut liver oil capsules in winter because I feel the NEED for extra vit D. I CAN tell the difference if I don't take them and I don't suffer from too much vit A and vit D. How on earth you get ANY vit D during a Canadian winter is beyond me.

    I think that this has to be put down as another case of "faith" in the powers that be.

    Also the only vit A and vit D that can be toxic is the synthetic variety so stay away from pills or fortified oils but even then the risk is overblown compared to the very realy problems of not getting enough.

    Regards, Anthony

  19. #19
    Long Distance Cyclist Machka's Avatar
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    My multivitamin, when I can take it and not throw it back up again, has twice the RDA of Vitamin D for my age group. I hardly think I need to take more. I have no problem with the idea of taking a multivitamin, and would take one regularly (daily) if I could ..... I have a problem with taking extra stuff unnecessarily.

    The food here in North America is so fortified and supplemented, it's like we're taking several multivitamins every time we eat a slice of bread or a granola bar or something. So instead of taking pills for everything, I'm an advocate of a well-balanced diet ... not that I always adhere to that, but it's a goal.

    http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/fn-an/food-gu...t/index_e.html

  20. #20
    Senior Member AnthonyG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machka View Post
    My multivitamin, when I can take it and not throw it back up again, has twice the RDA of Vitamin D for my age group. I hardly think I need to take more. I have no problem with the idea of taking a multivitamin, and would take one regularly (daily) if I could ..... I have a problem with taking extra stuff unnecessarily.

    The food here in North America is so fortified and supplemented, it's like we're taking several multivitamins every time we eat a slice of bread or a granola bar or something. So instead of taking pills for everything, I'm an advocate of a well-balanced diet ... not that I always adhere to that, but it's a goal.

    http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/fn-an/food-gu...t/index_e.html
    I'm not nessicarily against that. I'm not reccomending that you need a multivitamin and I avoid fortified foods. Its just that I consider cod liver oil to be a 'whole food' vitamin and not a synthetic suppliment just as long as you get a good brand.

    Regards, Anthony

  21. #21
    Senior Member Garfield Cat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJ123 View Post
    Anyone here planning on supplementing with cod liver oil or something else for Vitamin D, since odds are we won't be getting as much sun this winter?
    I'm just fortunate that I live in Southern California. The sun is less during the winter months, but its just great riding year round.

  22. #22
    Splicer of Molecules Nickel's Avatar
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    Ah, I didn't realize the OP was in a warm climate.

    I think there is greater risk of overdosing on Vitamin A than D. I have seen Vit A being stuck into fortified juices at almost 10,000 IU so you should really be careful. There are nice programs like fitday.com where you can see if you are getting enough of your vitamins and minerals.

    I do take my vitamin for insurance purposes, despite just eating as well-rounded as possible. It's a cheap policy and I'd recommend it at least for most Americans who definitely don't eat very well. I can't comment on eating patterns in other countries.

    There should be no difference between 'natural' and 'synthetic' vitamins. The process in the lab is the same as what happens in nature, so I'm not really sure chemically how it would differ. The one difference I know is between vitamin D, in D3 and D2. D2 is not animal-derived and is used to supplement vegetarian foods, but it is only absorbed 1/3-1/2 as well.

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