Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Training & Nutrition Learn how to develop a training schedule that's good for you. What should you eat and drink on your ride? Learn everything you need to know about training and nutrition here.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 01-28-08, 09:38 PM   #1
cujet
I give up!
Thread Starter
 
cujet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Jupiter, FL
Bikes: Homemade Ti, Hab frame
Posts: 87
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Perpeteum, anybody try it?

Ok, on a whim I purchased some Perpeteum made by Hammer nutrition. I have to give it top marks, and I do not want to promote any particular product. But this stuff works well for me. As we all know, individuals are different and my results won't be the same as yours.

EDIT: Most of my rides are just a few hours max, 2-3 AVG. I never ride 8 hours anymore. I like Perpeteum for my length rides.

Here is the scoop. I have been making my own energy bars for years. They work well and prevent bonk fairly well, plus they taste good. So, I was not wanting to pay for supplements. However, Gu, Clif Blocks, jelly beans and the like do work for me on longer rides. I sometimes use Gatoraid and tried Cytomax. All work well for a boost.

But the Perpeteum stuff simply works better. The end result is a couple of tenths more speed over a long ride. Plus I simply feel better. In my case, I have found the secret!

Cytomax claims to have lactic acid reducers and I suppose they work, but Perpeteum works better. Not sure about the lactic acid, I generally don't have a problem with burn. However Perpeteum results in stronger feeling legs during a ride, and especially towards the end the day, after my ride.

Chris

Last edited by cujet; 01-30-08 at 05:51 PM.
cujet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-08, 09:52 PM   #2
PhattTyre
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Portland, OR
Bikes: 07 Fisher Paragon, 00' Lemond Buenos Aries, Specialized Langster, Schwinn World Sport SS townie, 99 SS-Works single speed conversion, early 90s Raleigh roadie rain bike, 07 Fisher Rig, Trek 520, and a home-modified chopper
Posts: 707
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I used Perpetuem last year when I was training for a dirt century. I had been on 7+ hour mountain bike rides on pbj sandwiches, fig newtons, and my own energy drink (mostly brewers malt, honey, water, and salt). When I started with the Perpetuem and the espresso hammer gel I noticed a huge difference. I could ride longer and recover faster.

The stuff worked great, but I did have one problem with it. The Perpetuem gave me painful stomach cramping gas if I didn't take enough solid food with it. It usually happened late in the ride (8+ hours), but it would last awhile. I found getting at least a third of my calories from solid food during the ride prevented it.
PhattTyre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-08, 10:01 PM   #3
Jarery
Senior Member
 
Jarery's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Coquitlam
Bikes:
Posts: 2,538
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I couldn't handle it in hot weather rides, i went back to Heed from the same company without the worries of it going rank in hot weather
Jarery is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-08, 10:55 PM   #4
ericgu
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Bikes:
Posts: 1,941
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Perpetuum and I do not get along.

I used it on a couple of long rides last summer, and I got really bad stomach cramps from it. Luckily, I had brought some accelerade mix along with me, and the stomach issues went away almost immediately when I switched.

I think it's the soy protein that doesn't sit well with me.
__________________
Eric

2005 Trek 5.2 Madone, Red with Yellow Flames (Beauty)
199x Lemond Tourmalet, Yellow with fenders (Beast)

Read my cycling blog at http://riderx.info/blogs/riderx
Like climbing? Goto http://www.bicycleclimbs.com
ericgu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-08, 12:11 AM   #5
sigg.switz
Senior Member
 
sigg.switz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 173
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhattTyre View Post
I did have one problem with it. The Perpetuem gave me painful stomach cramping gas if I didn't take enough solid food with it. It usually happened late in the ride (8+ hours), but it would last awhile. I found getting at least a third of my calories from solid food during the ride prevented it.
From the Hammer Website:
Hammer is a complex carb, gatorade and other stuff (jelly) are simple carbs - mix the two and you are gonna get some funky stomach issues.

Why are simple sugars bad?
Simple sugars (glucose, sucrose, fructose, dextrose, etc) need to be mixed in concentrations no higher than 6-8% in order to achieve an acceptable absortion osmolar value of body fluids (280-303 mOsm) and be digested with any efficiency. That's it. The problem is that a 6-8% solution is a pretty weak mix and will only yield about 100 or so calories an hour, which is inadequate for maintaining optimal energy production. Some athletes realize that and try to resolve the problem by making a double or triple strength batch of their simple sugar product. Unfortunately, that solution is now far too concentrated, it's much higher than 6-8% and, unless more water is consumed or added to the mix (at which point the athlete might very well be flirting with over hydration) that concentrated simple sugar solution will not pass the gastric channels. Energy production is compromised and stomach distress is sure to follow.

The same problem occurs when an athlete combines a simple sugar fuel with a complex carbohydrate fuel. The beauty of complex carbs is that they will match body fluid osmolality, not at a 6-8% solution, but a more concentrated 15-18% solution. Even at this seemingly too-high concentration complex carbohydrates (such as maltodextrins/glucose polymers) will empty the stomach at the same efficient rate as normal body fluids and provide substantially more calories (up to three times more) than simple sugar mixtures will. However, when simple sugars and complex carbs are consumed together or near each other, it increases the solution concentration beyond what either source can be efficiently digested at. In other words, when you consume simple sugars and complex carbohydrates together or within close proximity of each other you negate the efficient digestibility of either source. Once again, energy production will be compromised and a variety of stomach issues are likely to occur.
sigg.switz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-08, 12:13 AM   #6
Machka 
In Real Life
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Bikes:
Posts: 46,633
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 550 Post(s)
I think most long distance cyclists have tried Perpetuem at one point or another. I tried it once and it wasn't bad ... reminded me of muffin mix.

But I usually use HEED and solid food on my rides.
Machka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-08, 06:42 AM   #7
rodrigaj
Senior Member
 
rodrigaj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Madison, WI
Bikes:
Posts: 1,126
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I've used Perpetum for one year. It works very well for me on rides over 2 hours. I use it in place of food for rides lasting up to 6 hours. After that I need real food.

I also love Recoverite and Heed (for rides under 2 hours).

Hammer Nutrition products work well for me.
rodrigaj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-08, 12:37 PM   #8
backinthesaddle
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Alameda, CA, an island city on the edge of San Francisco Bay
Bikes:
Posts: 666
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodrigaj View Post
I've used Perpetum for one year. It works very well for me on rides over 2 hours. I use it in place of food for rides lasting up to 6 hours. After that I need real food.

I also love Recoverite and Heed (for rides under 2 hours).

Hammer Nutrition products work well for me.
+1

Also I use Hammer Bars as an occasional substitute for Clif Bars. Only 2 flavors, but they're good.
backinthesaddle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-08, 05:51 PM   #9
Quinn8it
Senior Member
 
Quinn8it's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Hollywood
Bikes: Bianchi Pista, Bianchi Vigorelli
Posts: 956
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I Dove in huge with the Hammer Products! I was happy with heed and Hammer Gel, and bought a bunch of perpetuem. I was getting ready for an annual ride from S.F. to L.A. that i do with a couple of friends every year, in 4 days. I was planning on consuming Perpetuem as my sole fuel source on the bike. I did a couple of training rides on the stuff and loved it, I started taking it on longer rides. One particular 100 mile ride I began to not feel so great, and was having a lot of trouble feeling Hydrated, no matter how much I drank. I gave the stuff one more try in a different configuration, double strength with a bottle of plain water. It was not any better. Now I stay away from that stuff. Whats funny is that Now I cant drink Heed... I think it is the sweetener that they use in both Heed and Perpetuem (stevia leaf) But the website says it is the same one that is in Hammer Gel, and i continue to use The gel with great success... Just my experience..
Quinn8it is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-08, 07:09 PM   #10
Machka 
In Real Life
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Bikes:
Posts: 46,633
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 550 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quinn8it View Post
I was planning on consuming Perpetuem as my sole fuel source on the bike. I did a couple of training rides on the stuff and loved it, I started taking it on longer rides. One particular 100 mile ride I began to not feel so great, and was having a lot of trouble feeling Hydrated, no matter how much I drank. I gave the stuff one more try in a different configuration, double strength with a bottle of plain water. It was not any better. Now I stay away from that stuff. Whats funny is that Now I cant drink Heed... I think it is the sweetener that they use in both Heed and Perpetuem (stevia leaf) But the website says it is the same one that is in Hammer Gel, and i continue to use The gel with great success... Just my experience..
I wouldn't recommend depending on any powder, gel, or bar as my sole fuel source on the bike ... especially not powders or gels.
Machka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-08, 10:09 PM   #11
Jarery
Senior Member
 
Jarery's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Coquitlam
Bikes:
Posts: 2,538
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Machka View Post
I wouldn't recommend depending on any powder, gel, or bar as my sole fuel source on the bike ... especially not powders or gels.
I agree. For protein intake on a 4-8 hour ride, i want food, not protein added to my water
Jarery is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-08, 11:43 PM   #12
Quinn8it
Senior Member
 
Quinn8it's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Hollywood
Bikes: Bianchi Pista, Bianchi Vigorelli
Posts: 956
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Machka View Post
I wouldn't recommend depending on any powder, gel, or bar as my sole fuel source on the bike ... especially not powders or gels.
I disagree. I ended up getting most of my calories from Hammer Gel, and additional calories and protein from a high protein Cliff "Builder Bar" for a total calorie consumption of 275cal/hr and about 5 grams of protein an hour. I Found this system to deliver consistent fuel and I had zero Gastro issues. For long high millage days without a support team gels and bars are great fuel.
Quinn8it is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-08, 12:06 AM   #13
Machka 
In Real Life
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Bikes:
Posts: 46,633
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 550 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quinn8it View Post
I disagree. I ended up getting most of my calories from Hammer Gel, and additional calories and protein from a high protein Cliff "Builder Bar" for a total calorie consumption of 275cal/hr and about 5 grams of protein an hour. I Found this system to deliver consistent fuel and I had zero Gastro issues. For long high millage days without a support team gels and bars are great fuel.
And that's a notable difference between American long distance cyclists ... and long distance cyclists from the rest of the world. It works fine if you plan to only ride in the US where you can get your powders and bars conveniently, but if you travel to other countries for events, you'll discover that they rely on real food and finding powders and bars is a bit of a challenge. Just something to keep in mind.

Also ... I used to like energy bars. After riding long distances for 7+ years, I now hate them. Perhaps you'll feel differently after a few years.
Machka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-08, 03:04 PM   #14
Quinn8it
Senior Member
 
Quinn8it's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Hollywood
Bikes: Bianchi Pista, Bianchi Vigorelli
Posts: 956
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
My point about the gels and bars was that I could bring all my fuel needs for the entire trip, and not have to rely on local availability, until dinner....

And at what point did i list my long distance cycling resume? You have no way of knowing how long i have been cycling or using bars and gels...
Quinn8it is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-08, 04:50 PM   #15
roadie gal
Out the door
 
roadie gal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: northern California
Bikes:
Posts: 364
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Perpetuem worked great for me... until it got warm, then I couldn't get it past my lips.

No I use Infinit. I've been very happy with that and it doesn't cost any more than the Perpetuem.
roadie gal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-08, 11:55 PM   #16
Carbonfiberboy 
just another gosling
 
Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Everett, WA
Bikes: CoMo Speedster 2003, Trek 5200, CAAD 9, Fred 2004
Posts: 11,637
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 279 Post(s)
Cycling buddy of mine did team RAAM, planned to do it all on Perpetuem, but barfed it up in the desert and did the whole rest of the ride on Ensure Plus. So one vote against.
Carbonfiberboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-08, 06:17 PM   #17
Doctor Who
Lotion/Basket/Hose
 
Doctor Who's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Chicago
Bikes: 1992 Schwinn Paramount
Posts: 1,368
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Machka View Post
And that's a notable difference between American long distance cyclists ... and long distance cyclists from the rest of the world. It works fine if you plan to only ride in the US where you can get your powders and bars conveniently, but if you travel to other countries for events, you'll discover that they rely on real food and finding powders and bars is a bit of a challenge. Just something to keep in mind.

Also ... I used to like energy bars. After riding long distances for 7+ years, I now hate them. Perhaps you'll feel differently after a few years.
Gels, bars, and powders seem to work great for those who do long-distance races, even those racers over in Europe and Canada, who allegedly know everything there is to know about cycling.
Doctor Who is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-08, 02:26 PM   #18
TomM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Bikes: Trek5000
Posts: 953
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quinn8it View Post
My point about the gels and bars was that I could bring all my fuel needs for the entire trip, and not have to rely on local availability, until dinner....

And at what point did i list my long distance cycling resume? You have no way of knowing how long i have been cycling or using bars and gels...
I am with you with carrying my needed fuel but I've noticed a lot people who have an aversion to it.
TomM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-08, 03:30 PM   #19
HigherGround
Descends Like Avalanche
 
HigherGround's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Somewhere between Funkytown and Margaritaville, PA
Bikes: Lynskey R330, Litespeed Classic, Eddy Merckx MX Leader, Specialized Rock Hopper Comp (1988!)
Posts: 5,767
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
I tried Perpeteum, but I am not a big fan of feeling like I'm drinking oatmeal from my water bottle. I like the Heed, however. I'm reluctant to go with just an energy drink as my sole source of calories on a century however - my stomach feels too empty and I want some solid food. The only time I would have deviated from that was during the Assault on Mt. Mitchell in 1997. It was such a gut wrenching climb that I wished I had gels for the last part of the ride.
__________________
The rider in my avatar is David Etxebarria, not me.
HigherGround is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-08, 05:10 PM   #20
InTheRain
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Puget Sound
Bikes: 2007 Rocky Mountain Sherpa 30 (bionx), 2015 Cannondale Synapse Carbon Ultegra
Posts: 1,703
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 32 Post(s)
I just completed a one-day double century (seattle-to-portland) with perpetuem as as my main source of nutrition. I started with 10 scoops in a double zip-loc plus prepared two bottles just before the ride. I consumed 8 bottles during 15 hours. I also carried some beef jerky (salt & protein) and drank a total of 3 bottles of gatorade at rest stops along the way. The only other solid foot consisted of 1/2 ham sandwich, about 20 grapes, and 1/2 of a boiled potato that had been chilled. I also consumed about 5 bottles of plain water. The heat was extreme for what I'm accustomed to... the last 6 hours were in 90+ degree heat. I didn't want to suffer the complications of dehydration. I also swallowed about 16-20 capsules of "sportlegs" along the way.

I still suffered some cramping, but I would say that was due to not enough miles of training rather than nutrition or hydration. I didn't experience any stomach/digestive issues. I can't say that I ever felt hungry either. In fact, I waited until almost 2 hours after the event to have a meal. I'm a perpetuem believer and I'll continue to use it on distance events and long training rides the way I used it during this event.
InTheRain is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:06 PM.