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Old 10-13-03, 06:02 PM   #1
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A tasty "recovery" drink. . .

I read that milk and Ovaltine yeilded a drink with the "magic" carb-to-protein ratio of 4:1. Did the calculations, and the mix wasn't too close.

However, getting lactose intolerant as I am as I grow older, I checked my WestSoy Plus Plain Soymilk carton and the Ovaltine Label and found when I combine 1 cup Westsoy with 4 tablespoons of the Ovaltine I get almost the perfect ration--the carb amount is only 1 gram off the perfect ratio above.

I use the Ovaltine that comes in the big metalicized cardboard container (it has a plastic lid).

This makes for pretty strong, sweet mix, so I use 1-1/2 cup WestSoy Plus Plain and 6 tablespoons Ovaltine and 1/2 cup of water. Stir well and pour over ice and it is pretty tasty. I've got my husband hooked on it too.

You might want to give this a try, if you are frugal (read "cheap" ;-) like me!

Oh, you might want to build up to this drink if you want to drink it in quantity--soy can bother some people at first!
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Old 10-13-03, 07:31 PM   #2
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Hi,
put some soymilk in a blender, throw in a banana, some frozen fruit (like mixed berries) and any other fruit you have hanging around. Hit the switch, and you have a drink with proteins, carbs, vitamin C, and antioxidants. If I want a little more protein I throw in just a little protein powder. Tastes pretty good, too.
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Old 10-13-03, 08:25 PM   #3
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Having milk as a post-exercise meal is not really the best idea. Besides the lactose not being great for many, the casein will slow down the absorption and you will not be able to utilise the insulin spike.

At this time, your muscles are screaming for both glycogen and amino acids to rebuild the microtrauma from the exertion. You want to actively flush your body with these two along with some potent anti-oxidants to combat free radicals caused by the exercise. To carry these nutrients to the muscle, you utilise an insulin spike created by the fast acting carbs.

The best idea is to have some form of protein powder mixed in water with a 1:1 mix of dextrose and maltodextrin. Some BCAA's are good, but it starts to get expensive.

The protein you should be using is hydrolysed whey protein isolate. This is a partially pre-digested form of whey which can enter the body extremely fast. This will ensure you blood is flushed with AA's when insulin spikes, which in turn transports those AA's and glycogen in to the muscle.

Fruit is ok, but is not 100%. The fructose found in fruits is unable to be utilised by the muscles to repair damage, it can however restore liver glycogen levels. So, some fruit is great but do not use it as your only source of carbs post-exercise.

Undertaking a proper post-exercise nutrition program is probably the single most important thing when in comes to sports nutrition. If you do it properly, you will recover faster, be able to train harder and basically blow your competition away.

Remember to eat approximately 1 hour after your post workout shake! A small solid meal is a must at this time.
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Old 10-13-03, 09:56 PM   #4
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Well,
that sounds good. Problem is, that the soymilk contains both sugar and non-fruit carbs. You might need more, but if there's something keeping you from adding a little dextrose; I don't want to know. It also contains soy protein which like whey has a lot of BCAAs. The next thing is that large amounts of protein are not needed in a cyclists diet. And if you do consume a large dose, your body will disassemble much of that protein and use it as a carb. Bodybuilding is a different story.
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Old 10-13-03, 11:51 PM   #5
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Well,
that sounds good. Problem is, that the soymilk contains both sugar and non-fruit carbs. You might need more, but if there's something keeping you from adding a little dextrose; I don't want to know. It also contains soy protein which like whey has a lot of BCAAs. The next thing is that large amounts of protein are not needed in a cyclists diet. And if you do consume a large dose, your body will disassemble much of that protein and use it as a carb. Bodybuilding is a different story.
I agree with what you are saying on the most part.

The problem is with the soy, the carbs aren't optimal at this point. The carbs in a post-exercise drink play two roles; to spike insulin and to be utilised in the body. You aren't spiking your insulin with soy milk alone.

It has been proven there is an optimal ratio of BCAA'srotein:CHO in a post-exercise drink. The BCAA's required are higher than what is contained in the protein (whey) alone. Again, not a huge deal, but I am just stating the optimum.

I agree cyclists do not need a lot of protein except for post-exercise. It is not to increase muscle mass, but rather increase recovery rates and stave off overtraining symptoms. It's all about eating for your activity. Everyone eats smart before a race/ride, but not many think too much about it after, preferring to go for a beer or the like.
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Old 10-14-03, 04:41 PM   #6
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Hi,
put some soymilk in a blender, throw in a banana, some frozen fruit (like mixed berries) and any other fruit you have hanging around. Hit the switch, and you have a drink with proteins, carbs, vitamin C, and antioxidants. If I want a little more protein I throw in just a little protein powder. Tastes pretty good, too.
I thought the Ovaltine ( in the cardboard cannister, the Ovaltine with all the vitamins and minerals added) would be good for all those persons who, like me, HATE washing dishes. One doesn't have to wash a glass and a blender, AND a spoon--ya just have to wash the measuring cup and a spoon, if you drink it like a cowboy right from the measuring cup. . .
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Old 10-14-03, 05:04 PM   #7
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I agree with what you are saying on the most part.

The problem is with the soy, the carbs aren't optimal at this point. The carbs in a post-exercise drink play two roles; to spike insulin and to be utilised in the body. You aren't spiking your insulin with soy milk alone.

It has been proven there is an optimal ratio of BCAA'srotein:CHO in a post-exercise drink. The BCAA's required are higher than what is contained in the protein (whey) alone. Again, not a huge deal, but I am just stating the optimum.

I agree cyclists do not need a lot of protein except for post-exercise. It is not to increase muscle mass, but rather increase recovery rates and stave off overtraining symptoms. It's all about eating for your activity. Everyone eats smart before a race/ride, but not many think too much about it after, preferring to go for a beer or the like.

Did you guys miss it?

The ratio is ONE gram protein to FOUR grams carb.

Here's what it sez on the Ovaltine Rich Chocolate container:
Total Carbohydrate: 19 grams
Sugars: 18 grams
Protien: <1 gram.

Plus you get 20 to 35% of 12 vitamins and minerals.

The WestSoy Plus Plain soymilk label sez:

total fat: 3 grams
Total carbs: 17 grams
Sugars: 12 grams
Protein: 7 grams

I guess the fat content in the soy milk might change the uptake rate of the carbs in this mix, but it its tasty and easy to get down--or maybe it's just me? It has a nice texture too.

And as I just re-did my math, the ratio on this is off also (I can't add when I am all escite-alated). It is actually 36 grams total carb to 7 grams protein; roughly a 5:1 ratio.

BUT, if you add the sugars up you get 30 grams sugars to 7 grams protein, much closer to that 4:1 carb to protein ratio.

I just thought it would be a nice break from the high cost of alot of that recovery drink stuff, that I am sure more than a few people (like me) wish to save some money on.

Cheeze whiz, throw a banana in like late said and yer have a good source of potassium as well!

You know, variety is the spice of life and the dang fat is good for you too.
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Old 10-14-03, 06:53 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Croak
Having milk as a post-exercise meal is not really the best idea. Besides the lactose not being great for many, the casein will slow down the absorption and you will not be able to utilise the insulin spike.

At this time, your muscles are screaming for both glycogen and amino acids to rebuild the microtrauma from the exertion. You want to actively flush your body with these two along with some potent anti-oxidants to combat free radicals caused by the exercise. To carry these nutrients to the muscle, you utilise an insulin spike created by the fast acting carbs.

The best idea is to have some form of protein powder mixed in water with a 1:1 mix of dextrose and maltodextrin. Some BCAA's are good, but it starts to get expensive.

The protein you should be using is hydrolysed whey protein isolate. This is a partially pre-digested form of whey which can enter the body extremely fast. This will ensure you blood is flushed with AA's when insulin spikes, which in turn transports those AA's and glycogen in to the muscle.

Fruit is ok, but is not 100%. The fructose found in fruits is unable to be utilised by the muscles to repair damage, it can however restore liver glycogen levels. So, some fruit is great but do not use it as your only source of carbs post-exercise.

Undertaking a proper post-exercise nutrition program is probably the single most important thing when in comes to sports nutrition. If you do it properly, you will recover faster, be able to train harder and basically blow your competition away.

Remember to eat approximately 1 hour after your post workout shake! A small solid meal is a must at this time.
I am sold on your theory, but what exactly do you recommend for a post-ride drink, and post-ride meal?
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Old 10-14-03, 09:20 PM   #9
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I am sold on your theory, but what exactly do you recommend for a post-ride drink, and post-ride meal?
If you wanted to spend the money, the optimum is Biotest Surge as a post-exercise drink. It is fairly expensive though and can pretty much be re-created through using some hydrolysed whey protein isolate (bought from proteinfactory.com or the like), some dextrose and some maltodextrin. These are two sugars (one simple, one complex), both can be bought at home brew shops or proteinfactory.com. The ratio used for the drink should be tailored to the exercise you are doing and you specific (and goal) weight. Keep the protein from 25-50g and tailor the carbs in a 1:1 mix, the harder the exercise, the more carbs you need for recovery. Anywhere from 50-100 net grams.

To elaborate on the carbs, both dextrose and maltodextrose can be utilised by the whole body by converting directly in to glucose. the body's fuel supply. Fructose can only be used by the liver, once the liver is refuelled the fructose is stored as fat. Sucrose is half glucose, half fructose. So half of sucrose can be used by the body, the other half by the liver. Again, some will be stored as fat. So as you can see, if you use only sucrose, you may enter a stage where your muscles need more carbs but you are actually storing carbs as fat instead of the body utilizing them.

Again the meal depends on your goals. Let's assume it is to maintain your current weight. A small serving of protein which has little to no fat, this is not the time to be eating red meat or the like. Chicken breast or tuna is fantastic. Some slow digesting carbs are now also called for, go for oatmeal, sweet potato, grainy bread, maybe some pasta. A favourite of mine is just some chicken seared in a pan, a little tomato, basil over some pasta.
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Old 10-15-03, 07:05 AM   #10
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The complexity of finding the right drink is what drives me back to "I'll just have a beer". My goals are just to maintain my current fitness and weight. I am an MTB rider at heart, but ride on the road two or three times a week just for conditioning. Trails are are another 2 - 3 times a week, then throw in one or two ice hockey games a week.

I just want to go to the supermarket and pickup a post-ride drink that is the correct formula and not shell out big bucks. Your mixture, which I am sure is correct, is more like chemistry class or maybe a cooking recipe. There is no way I am standing around mixing up a concoction. I want to pop the top and drink instantly. Any suggestions along these lines?

BTW, thanks for the meal suggestions. Those are straight forward ones that even I can handle.

Last edited by H. Star; 10-15-03 at 07:46 AM.
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Old 10-15-03, 08:54 AM   #11
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Hi,
if you just want to 'pop the top' I have an easy answer for you. Get one of those meal replacement drinks. They all have
tons of sugar, they're cheap, and they have a little protein.
They even have a few vitamins.
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Old 10-15-03, 09:16 AM   #12
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The complexity of finding the right drink is what drives me back to "I'll just have a beer". My goals are just to maintain my current fitness and weight. I am an MTB rider at heart, but ride on the road two or three times a week just for conditioning. Trails are are another 2 - 3 times a week, then throw in one or two ice hockey games a week.

I just want to go to the supermarket and pickup a post-ride drink that is the correct formula and not shell out big bucks. Your mixture, which I am sure is correct, is more like chemistry class or maybe a cooking recipe. There is no way I am standing around mixing up a concoction. I want to pop the top and drink instantly. Any suggestions along these lines?

BTW, thanks for the meal suggestions. Those are straight forward ones that even I can handle.
In all honesty, the post-exercise drink is very easy to do. There are 3 powders you must buy, mix them in the right quantities in a large container and then just have a scoop each serving. Easy as could be.

Problem with most of the purchased recovery agents (I'm talking single serving things, not powders) is that they derive the macronutrients from sources like milk. Sure, lactose is a carb, but it's going to do next to nothing for recovery and the protein contained within is far from optimal.

As I said before Biotest's Surge is fantastic, but pricey. To ease the wallet a little, you can have half a serving of Surge with Gatorade or the like. Never have shakes with milk, it defeats the purpose of it.

I definately know what you mean about it getting very technical. All I'm trying to do is give you the best advice that you can try and incorporate. This is the exact reason why professional athletes pay people to do this for them, it is an absolute nightmare when you start getting picky!
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Old 10-15-03, 09:46 AM   #13
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As I said before Biotest's Surge is fantastic, but pricey. To ease the wallet a little, you can have half a serving of Surge with Gatorade or the like. Never have shakes with milk, it defeats the purpose of it.

I definately know what you mean about it getting very technical. All I'm trying to do is give you the best advice that you can try and incorporate. This is the exact reason why professional athletes pay people to do this for them, it is an absolute nightmare when you start getting picky!

Hey, I thought soymilk didn't have lactose in it. At least my stomach and gut sez it doesn't. . .
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Old 10-15-03, 09:52 AM   #14
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Hey, I thought soymilk didn't have lactose in it. At least my stomach and gut sez it doesn't. . .
Sorry, I wasn't talking about soy.

It was more of a disclaimer. As soon as people hear shake they think milk and ice-cream. It makes me shudder!

Drink your shakes with water people, water!! I know it doesn't taste the best, just think of it as the last hill in your ride.

You already know my thoughts on soy. Soy slept with my fiance the night before our wedding and we haven't spoken to each other in since. A little history to say the least! Damn soy...
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Old 10-16-03, 01:11 PM   #15
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I think I understand now why you guys are complaining ... Accelerade is disgusting!! YUK!!!
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Old 10-17-03, 02:23 AM   #16
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Hi,
put some soymilk in a blender, throw in a banana, some frozen fruit (like mixed berries) and any other fruit you have hanging around. Hit the switch, and you have a drink with proteins, carbs, vitamin C, and antioxidants. If I want a little more protein I throw in just a little protein powder. Tastes pretty good, too.
I use frozen bananas with my protien powder and milk, or even soy or rice milk. it makes the creamest shakes. Use frozen bananas to make low fat shakes, you would swear there is ice cream in them.
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Old 10-17-03, 09:17 AM   #17
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Damn I need a blender.
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Old 10-17-03, 09:57 AM   #18
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Ngateguy,
the frozen berries will do the same thing. If you want to 'kick it up a notch' use soy milk and milk protein powder. Milk protein powder does not mask the taste of the fruit the way that skim milk would. Also, the berries provide tons of antioxidants.
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Old 10-17-03, 02:39 PM   #19
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I use frozen bananas with my protien powder and milk, or even soy or rice milk. it makes the creamest shakes. Use frozen bananas to make low fat shakes, you would swear there is ice cream in them.
I have always thought that bananas made great shakes. I found out years ago, that if I used skim milk (which I detest) on my cereal with a chopped up banana, the milk tasted creamy and "whole". Good stuff.
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Old 10-17-03, 04:00 PM   #20
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Ngateguy,
the frozen berries will do the same thing. If you want to 'kick it up a notch' use soy milk and milk protein powder. Milk protein powder does not mask the taste of the fruit the way that skim milk would. Also, the berries provide tons of antioxidants.
And I have a freezer full of frozen blueberries I picked a while ago hmmm I can't wait to get home.
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