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  1. #1
    Splicer of Molecules Nickel's Avatar
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    Anaerobic endurance/Neuromuscular training

    Question about anaerobic endurance workouts and Friel. He mentions several times that they should not be done without at least 2 years of training in order to prevent burnout. I'm taking this to mean VO2 max intervals (3-10min) and anaerobic intervals (30s-3min) and not 8-12 sec sprints (neuromuscular or power training?).

    I plan on entering a few crits this year and I was wondering if I would be dropped if I didn't do any work above LT? I know this entire year is just for learning but how can I work on positioning if I can't hang in there?


    Also, on the 30min quick Spinerval workout (A,B,&C) DVD, there is a section of 10sec sprint/50sec rest x 5, 2 min rest, and repeat. These would be considered power training, correct?

  2. #2
    NeoRetroGrouch
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    The most important part of race training is to raise your functional power (max for 1 hr) or the power you put out at a little below your threashold HR (LT, VT, whatever). You have to be able to do 95+% of the race in "zone 3" or you will never get to where the anaerobic stuff is required. - TF

  3. #3
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    Training for 2 years before doing 3-10 minute intervals and sprint workouts is a bit extreme.

    I remember reading in Friel's "bible", that before starting a serious training plan, you should probably spend 1-2 years club riding, doing long rides, commuting, etc...

    That makes sense, you need base fitness before doing race specific training. And that type of base fitness won't come in just a few weeks/months of training.

    With that said, if you are planning doing a few criteriums, I'm sure this is not your first year putting in the miles on the bike. And for crits, yes work above LT is essential. I have seen many riders with great endurance, try a few crits and always get dropped.

    To stay in the pack, it's all about those 1 minute or so anaerobic efforts, as the pace will be extremely brisks for short duration, and that is where you need to dig deep to stay in the pack. Then you need to recover for the next burst.

    Happy training,

    Michel
    www.freetrainingplan.com

  4. #4
    Senior Member slim_77's Avatar
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    I understand Friel's basis for such a statement. I have been riding for 1.5 years and will be racing this spring (my first is April 5). I am incredibly (amazingly) stronger this year as compared to last largely due to substantial base miles. I am just beginning work on my Vo2 and anaerobic capacity and it hurts, really bad. Done poorly and misused, it can burn one out pretty quick. I think there is a lot to be said for being strong enough to do these workouts.

    Also, like you said, as a Cat 5 you (me, too) are responsible for learning how to race and how to train to race; winning though important, is not the priority goal of a 5, imo.

    Take a look here and here (if you haven't already.) Many say that racing is the best race training.

    So, race--have fun racing and training--we will both be dropped. Meh, so what? racing looks like too much fun to be that concerned with ego.
    gravity: it's not just a good idea, it's the law.

  5. #5
    Splicer of Molecules Nickel's Avatar
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    I had planned on using the crits as training but I was thinking of doing 1 workout/week with sufficient rest following. I have been riding for over a year but this winter was when I started actually training by a schedule. I still have a few more weeks of Base anyway.

  6. #6
    Senior Member slim_77's Avatar
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    Do the VO2 work then--you will be doing them anyway when racing, may as well be prepared as Michel says...sounds like we are on a similar schedule! Good luck!
    gravity: it's not just a good idea, it's the law.

  7. #7
    N71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickel View Post
    Question about anaerobic endurance workouts and Friel. He mentions several times that they should not be done without at least 2 years of training in order to prevent burnout. I'm taking this to mean VO2 max intervals (3-10min) and anaerobic intervals (30s-3min) and not 8-12 sec sprints (neuromuscular or power training?).

    I plan on entering a few crits this year and I was wondering if I would be dropped if I didn't do any work above LT? I know this entire year is just for learning but how can I work on positioning if I can't hang in there?


    Also, on the 30min quick Spinerval workout (A,B,&C) DVD, there is a section of 10sec sprint/50sec rest x 5, 2 min rest, and repeat. These would be considered power training, correct?
    I'd be burned out if I had to wait 2 yrs before doing hard efforts!

    Didn't have CAT 5 when I began, but yes you SHOULD be dropped if you aren't training above LT
    I'm not familiar with that particular workout tape but 10 second efforts don't register as power efforts on my PowerTap because I can't get my wattage up in that short a period. Probably good crit training though as you will need the short effort, high cadence to close gaps.

  8. #8
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    Anaerobic training is important especially for crits and I speak from my own experience as a cat 5 this year. In my first training race of the season, I was dropped quickly because I couldn't handle the constant accelerations. I had been spending the off-season building a solid LT base. While I could hold LT pace for hours, I couldn't handle the lactate buildup from anaerobic efforts and had to drop the pace way down to recover.

    Now that I have several training races under my belt and the evening outdoor training rides have commenced I find myself becoming much more capable of handling anaerobic efforts and being able to recover from them at or near LT pace as opposed to endurance or recovery pace.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenity View Post
    I find myself becoming much more capable of handling anaerobic efforts and being able to recover from them at or near LT pace as opposed to endurance or recovery pace.
    That points to improved aerobic not anaerobic fitness. The ability to recover is based on aerobic metabolism. Raise aerobic threshold and you're not going as deep into the anaerobic zone during the hard efforts (less oxygen deficit) and you're further below threshold during the easier parts so you recover faster.

  10. #10
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    There is a greater risk that you overshoot when you train for anaerobic endurance than aerobic endurance. Nevertheless, most riders train above the anaerobic threshold once in a while without focusing on it e.g. fartlek and race simulating.

    Training with a power meter is a great advantage and will reduce the risk of burnout significantly.

    Here is a article about training for anaerobic endurance.

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