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Thread: Supplements

  1. #1
    Its a Lemming thing... jester69's Avatar
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    Supplements

    Hey all,

    I am by no means old, but being in my mid 30's have started to feel the decline of hormones etc. Where I used to have to eat extra to prevent wasting away now I have to watch what I eat or i'll gain. I used to be one of those "high metabolism" skinny guys that bounced off the walls & looked like a twig. Now i'm just like everone else as far as having to fight the spare tire goes & a bit less energy, though still pretty hyper.

    In any event reading that article on drugs and cycling got me to thinking if I was doing all I could to take care of myself. I'm not so much concerned with loosing weight as keeping fit and healthy as age progresses, I/E I hope to keep fit enough over the years that I can cycle and take care of myself until death or serious illness. Since leaner people tend to fare much better in the longevity department all things being equal i'd rather dump the spare tire. (i'm about 10-15lb over my ideal or goal weight.)

    I am well on my way to getting back to ideal weight, I have quit cheese & only occasionally eat meat, avoid processed foods, no added sugars, only whole grain flours when possible etc. I've almost quit sugar entirely, and need to kick my coffee habit. No alcohol or other mood altering substances. I'm not going on any fad diet or anything like that. It is my strongly held belief that exercise and moderation work better than any gimmick.

    Are there any supplements or such that could help with such a goal? Probably dreaming here, I know we all get old and die, but i dont think its too unreasonable to shoot for a quality life on the way there.

    I was kindo of wondering if there were any natural ways to maybe bring hormones in balance, or to promote more lean muscle over fat. Not a magic pill but something combined with diet and exercise that would help.

    I guess I kind of rambled here, but anyway, you get the gist.

    any things you use or know to work? Please keep it to the chemical or herb name, no hawking of brand names.

    Also, please keep it to stuff that has been tested in medical trials, anecdotal evidence is nice, but if I can't read about it on pubmed, i'd just as likely as not be better off eating dirt.

    take care,

    Jester
    If you are in St. Louis, MO or surrounding areas it is imperative that you check this out: www.stlbikeworks.com.

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  2. #2
    Jungle lady cbhungry's Avatar
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    There is some talk in the medical community about DHEA as the fountain of youth. Dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) and its active metabolite, DHEA sulfate (DHEAS), are endogenous hormones synthesized and excreted primarily by the zona reticularis of the adrenal cortex in response to adrenocorticotropic hormone. The exact mechanism of action and clinical role, if any, of DHEA and DHEAS remain unclear. Epidemiological data indicate an inverse relationship between serum DHEA and DHEAS levels and the frequency of cancer, cardiovascular disease (in men only), Alzheimer's disease and other age-related disorders, immune function, and progression of HIV infection Animal (primarily rodent) studies have suggested many beneficial effects of DHEA, including improved immune function and memory and prevention of atherosclerosis, cancer, diabetes, and obesity. Many of the benefits seen in animal studies have yet to be shown in humans!

    What human trials are there, have not been carried out over 12 mos and the benefits of leaner muscle mass etc. seems to only benefit men and not women. It has good studies in women with Lupus though.

    The Effect of Six Months Treatment With a 100 mg Daily Dose of Dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) on Circulating Sex Steroids, Body Composition and Muscle Strength in Age-Advanced Men and Women
    Morales AJ, Haubrich RH, Hwang JY, Asakura H, Yen SS.
    Clin Endocrinol (Oxf). 1998;49(4):421-432.
    Objective: The biological role of the adrenal sex steroid precursors--DHEA and DHEA sulphate (DS) and their decline with ageing remains undefined. We observed previously that administration of a 50 daily dose of DHEA for 3 months to age-advanced men and women resulted in an elevation (10%) of serum levels of insulin-like growth factor-I (IGF-I) accompanied by improvement of self-reported physical and psychological well-being. These findings led us to assess the effect of a larger dose (100 mg) of DHEA for a longer duration (6 months) on circulating sex steroids, body composition (DEXA) and muscle strength (MedX).
    Subjects and Design: Healthy non-obese age-advanced (50-65 yrs of age) men (n = 9) and women (n = 10) were randomized into a double-blind placebo-controlled cross-over trial. Sixteen subjects completed the one-year study of six months of placebo and six months of 100 mg oral DHEA daily.
    Measurements: Fasting early morning blood samples were obtained. Serum DHEA, DS, sex steroids, IGF-I, IGFBP-1, IGFBP-3, growth hormone binding protein (GHBP) levels and lipid profiles as well as body composition (by DEXA) and muscle strength (by MedX testing) were measured at baseline and after each treatment.
    Results: Basal serum levels of DHEA, DS, androstenedione (A), testosterone (T) and dihydrotestosterone (DHT) were at or below the lower range of young adult levels. In both sexes, a 100 mg daily dose of DHEA restored serum DHEA levels to those of young adults and serum DS to levels at or slightly above the young adult range. Serum cortisol levels were unaltered, consequently the DS/cortisol ratio was increased to pubertal (10:1) levels. In women, but not in men, serum A, T and DHT were increased to levels above gender-specific young adult ranges. Basal SHBG levels were in the normal range for men and elevated in women, of whom 7 of 8 were on oestrogen replacement therapy. While on DHEA, serum SHBG levels declined with a greater (P = 0.02) response in women (-40 +/- 8%; P = 0.002) than in men (-5 +/- 4%; P < 0.02). Relative to baseline, DHEA administration resulted in an elevation of serum IGF-I levels in men (16 +/- 6%, P = 0.04) and in women (31 +/- 12%, P = 0.02). Serum levels of IGFBP-1 and IGFBP-3 were unaltered but GHBP levels declined in women (28 +/- 6%; P = 0.02) not in men. In men, but not in women, fat body mass decreased 1.0 +/- 0.4 kg (6.1 +/- 2.6%, P = 0.02) and knee muscle strength 15.0 +/- 3.3% (P = 0.02) as well as lumbar back strength 13.9 +/- 5.4% (P = 0.01) increased. In women, but not in men, an increase in total body mass of 1.4 +/- 0.4 kg (2.1 +/- 0.7%; P = 0.02) was noted. Neither gender had changes in basal metabolic rate, bone mineral density, urinary pyridinoline cross-links, fasting insulin, glucose, cortisol levels or lipid profiles. No significant adverse effects were observed.
    Conclusions: A daily oral 100 mg dose of DHEA for 6 months resulted in elevation of circulating DHEA and DS concentrations and the DS/cortisol ratio. Biotransformation to potent androgens near and slightly above the range of their younger counterparts occurred in women with no detectable change in men. Given this hormonal milieu, an increase in serum IGF-I levels was observed in both genders but dimorphic responses were evident in fat body mass and muscle strength in favour of men. These differences in response to DHEA administration may reflect a gender specific response to DHEA and/or the presence of confounding factor(s) in women such as oestrogen replacement therapy.
    Note, small clinical trial of less than 20 participants.
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  3. #3
    Senior Member late's Avatar
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    Hi,
    what you want is to be healthy. really healthy. Don't focus on one part of the equation, think of it (yourself) as a whole.
    Lots of exercise, lots of rest, good diet, and supplements to top it all off. If you want, tonite I can share my thoughts on that. But for now, let me just say I am very enthusiastic about antioxidants.

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    I firmly believe the money and time would best be invested in getting your diet 100% in check.

    Things like ratios of poly:mono fats have a much larger bearing on hormone and free hormone levels than most legal supplements can provide, especially speaking of the long term. Timing of macronutrients splits is another huge topic that has a large impact on the body. I feel educating yourself on the role of nutrition in the body would far outweigh any supplements in this instance.

    The other advice I would give is to surf on over to some life extension forums (a bit of a misnomer). It's all about anti-ageing etc. which is keeping your body healthy and hormones in check.

    Finally, go and get you Dr. to do some bloodwork. See if you are low in test, check your liver numbers etc. to give you a quantitative baseline to compare any results to.

  5. #5
    Its a Lemming thing... jester69's Avatar
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    Wow, CB, thanks for the tip. I've been perusing PubMed this afternoon, plenty to read there on DHEA studies. Definitely an intriguing compund to be sure.

    Late, I think you hit the nail on the head there, Other than the caffeine I *think* I'm doing most all I can on the diet front, exercise I keep up on, so I am looking for the icing now I, too, hear good things about antioxidants and often drink green and red tea.

    Croak: Thanks for the tips. any books on diet you would recommend, or specific forums?

    Take care,

    Jester
    Last edited by jester69; 11-03-03 at 12:43 PM.
    If you are in St. Louis, MO or surrounding areas it is imperative that you check this out: www.stlbikeworks.com.

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    (selling: fixed gear and fixie stuff. Frames. Drivetrain bits from campagnolo, shimano, etc. Wheels and Wheelsets. Modern parts and vintage rarities. Whole bikes that are checked out and ready to go.

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    cbhungry,

    What is your opinion of Bruce Ames' research that shows alpha-lipoic acid combined with acetyl l-carnitine slows the aging process? It is reportedly an anti-oxident of the highest caliber.

    I don't think Mr. Ames is one to shoot off his mouth about something that doesn't work.
    "My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."

  7. #7
    Jungle lady cbhungry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrekRider
    cbhungry,

    What is your opinion of Bruce Ames' research that shows alpha-lipoic acid combined with acetyl l-carnitine slows the aging process? It is reportedly an anti-oxident of the highest caliber.

    I don't think Mr. Ames is one to shoot off his mouth about something that doesn't work.

    I am wary until clinical trials are done on humans. Too much of a good thing may be bad, even with antioxidants. Beta kerotene actually increased lung cancer in a large, prospective randomized trial for those who took it to prevent cancer! (these were smokers). Rats still posesses alot of enzymes that are very different from humans (that's why sacharin caused cancer in rats but not humans due to an enzyme in their kidneys that converted saccharin to a carcinogen.) But it does look promising. I have to look at his research in detail in the National Proceedings since I am unclear how he measured the mitochondrial rejuvination. Was it just the acetyl carnitine levels? Rats were "peppy" but how was it objectively measured and subjective bias was not a factor etc. etc. His approach at tackeling the mitochondrial issues is definately where most "anti aging" scientists are honing in on.
    Ride forever, work whenever.
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  8. #8
    truthisntalwayswanttohear jacob's Avatar
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    here is a book I will recommend, first shown me by a priest friend:

    La Medicina Natural al Alcance de Todos
    by Manuel Lezaeta Acharan

    You can get some good ideas from reading about different health practices. For example it tells you which fruits to eat to get the health benefits you desire.

    Jacob

  9. #9
    Elitist Jackass Smoothie104's Avatar
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    do an ebay search for clenbuterol, Its a favorite fat burner among body builders, Im not sure it's legal or safe, but is anything really these days?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smoothie104
    do an ebay search for clenbuterol, Its a favorite fat burner among body builders, Im not sure it's legal or safe, but is anything really these days?
    Not a good option. Can cause heart troubles in young people, let alone older.

    It is a bronchialdilator which isn't legal in many countries due to it's relatively long half life.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Bobsled's Avatar
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    This may sound simple or obvious but I take Vitamin B complex along with sensible eating and regular exercise. It's claimed the B complex helps maximize the use of food so that it doesn't get stored as fat as much. Of course that doesn't mean you can go nuts and have Pizza and beer everyday. YMMV.
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    doesn't mean you can go nuts and have Pizza and beer everyday
    Damn, I miss college.

  13. #13
    Pat
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    Well seeing as we are talking about aging, this is probably on the mark. No one really knows what aging is. There are a number of theories. One idea is that since cells only seem to divide 120 times and then die, that aging is based somewhat on this limit (the clock sets back to 0 when a new fertilized egg is formed).

    Another idea is that aging is programmed in.

    A third idea is that aging is just wear and tear and organisms just are not designed to live forever.

    Now it is interesting, that among nonfish vertebrates, all critters seem to get the same number of heart beats. Mice use theirs up in 3 years and humans in 90 years. But there are 2 groups that greatly exceed this: birds and turtles. Some parrots have been known to live over 100 years and their life expectancy based on heart rates is something like 5 years. And some tortoses live so long that we really have no idea what their lifespan is except that it measures in centuries.

    OK. So most of the stuff that we are talking about up here is based on looking at a chemical in the body like a hormone and adding some to keep its concentration at the level one has when one is young. Well that might help improve vigor but it might not. I mean the decrease in concentration may be a symptom of aging and not the cause of it. Or it could be a symptom of loss of vigor and not the cause. So you pays your money and takes your chances.

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    All you need to know is in "The Zone Diet" by Dr. Barry Sears. I am 46 and I still weigh the same as I did when I was 16. I started gaining weight in my 30's, in spite of a high metabolism, but a healthy diet and excercise has allowed me to keep my weight right where I want it.
    Gary

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    Quote Originally Posted by cbhungry
    I am wary until clinical trials are done on humans. Too much of a good thing may be bad, even with antioxidants. Beta kerotene actually increased lung cancer in a large, prospective randomized trial for those who took it to prevent cancer! (these were smokers). Rats still posesses alot of enzymes that are very different from humans (that's why sacharin caused cancer in rats but not humans due to an enzyme in their kidneys that converted saccharin to a carcinogen.) But it does look promising. I have to look at his research in detail in the National Proceedings since I am unclear how he measured the mitochondrial rejuvination. Was it just the acetyl carnitine levels? Rats were "peppy" but how was it objectively measured and subjective bias was not a factor etc. etc. His approach at tackeling the mitochondrial issues is definately where most "anti aging" scientists are honing in on.
    Thanks, I appreciate the informative reply. I am at that stage of life where I am over the hump. That is I have lived more years that I probably have left. I do not want to become incapacitated through neglect; hence, riding everyday, and I certainly want to take advantage of every modern medical miracle or supplement that will work. I have been taking Glucosimine and Chondroiton for nearly 10 years and my arthritis, especially in my knees, has become less and less of a problem.

    I do a google search on Bruce Ames about every month or so to see of something new been discovered.

    Thanks again.
    "My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."

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