Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Results 1 to 20 of 20
  1. #1
    Member DV8R's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Chicago Area
    My Bikes
    F900 Cannondale Custom
    Posts
    46
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Some professional advice please

    Hey guys and dolls Im starting an indoor training routine and really have no idea how much time or miles I should spend on my stationary bike? I just spent a ton of cash on this programable bike.... its pretty nice. Srry just gloating. lol

    Anyway Ive been doing 20 miles a day 7 days a week like clock work at 20-22 mph at low resistance and 24-25 mph at medium high resistance for 1 minute intervals low to high depending on the programs climb height. It switches resistance every minute depending on the program its on.

    I do this non stop ....no breaks.

    I stay hydrated throughout but really dont know if this enough to become competitive in professional racing.

    I do have the stamina to double this and do 40 miles a day but dont want to over due myself.

    Im also struggling to get my heart rate to stay high at around 140 at high resistance at around 25+ MPH even after the full 2 minutes of a fairly decent climb. It usually is about 115 or so. Also seems like I get faster on the climbs and my heart rate decreases as I get hotter after about 13 miles or so. I can get my heart rate up but I really have to struggle to do it. I stay very calm and my breathing stays very relaxed throughout even the climbing. After the 20 miles I am not winded at all and pretty much cool down 100% in about 2 minutes or so. This is why Im wondering if its just not enough and maybe I should double up on the miles.

    Anyway please let me know im feeling kinda lost right now. I dont know how to judge my progression or workout so all opinions are very very welcome.

    The racing I am wanting to do is XCMB

    Thanks,
    Last edited by DV8R; 12-17-03 at 01:10 PM.
    DV8R

    "You dont stand a chance NooB"

  2. #2
    Member DV8R's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Chicago Area
    My Bikes
    F900 Cannondale Custom
    Posts
    46
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Well im not really into buying videos I know what works for me and have been riding pretty hardcore XC for some time now. Im simply interested in how my workout stacks up to the rest of the world in a professionals opinion. Is this enough? or not? Should I double up the miles and do 40 a day? Is this average or what? Is 20 miles a day average at 20 25 mph non stop average? Should I be thankful for the lower heart rate and relaxed breathing at high resistance climbing? or not?

    I also lift free weights every other day for an hour along with a 20 mile ride that same day right after the workout.

    Im hoping your getting my point.

    Is this enough to dominate XC racing on a professional level?
    Last edited by DV8R; 12-17-03 at 01:05 PM.
    DV8R

    "You dont stand a chance NooB"

  3. #3
    Member DV8R's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Chicago Area
    My Bikes
    F900 Cannondale Custom
    Posts
    46
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Someone please have any advice or comments that will help me put my triaining into perspective?
    DV8R

    "You dont stand a chance NooB"

  4. #4
    Guest
    Guest
    I would say you are probably working out too much.

    The idea of working out is to stimulate muscle growth and bone thickening. This only happens when you tear the muscle from the training, then allow itself to heal. When you are working out every day nonstop, even if you have easy days, you are NOT allowing for the healing process. In effect, you end up tearing down more muscle, which leads to weakening in your end results.

    What I always tell people is to get a heart rate monitor and then start training with it- it will put your training all into perspective. Consider paying for a coach- find one who has at least the level 2 certification (Expert Coach) at www.bicyclecoach.com if you're considering competing. If you just want your own improvement, then you can get the lower level coach. Elite coaches just cost too darned much, and until you start racing consistently, I'd skip them for now.

    If you want to go the option of fine tuning your program, I would suggest a few books: "Serious Cycling", by Ed Burke, "Cyclists Training Bible" by Joel Friel, "The Heart Rate Monitor Book" by Sally Edwards, "The Heart Rate Monitor Book for Outdoor and Indoor Cyclists" by Sally Edwards and Sally Reed, and "Periodizaton" by Tudor Bompa. You'll need to do a bit of reading for self education, but after you read those books, you will have a better idea of how to structure your training program for your needs.

    In the meantime, you could cut back to 5 days a week, in my opinion. And shake up your training a bit- doing the same old same old will only help your body to adapt to your workout, which will not give you enough challenge to your body to make as many positive changes as you'd like to make.

    With a heart rate monitor, you will always certainly be able to monitor your progress- even the tiniest changes. Biomechanical feedback is always possible to use for gauging your progress, but without the tools for it, you're like a driver in a car with no speedometer- how do you really know how fast you're driving on the highway without that speedometer anyway?

    Koffee

  5. #5
    Member DV8R's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Chicago Area
    My Bikes
    F900 Cannondale Custom
    Posts
    46
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Thanks for the details man. This is the type of feedback im looking for. As for the heart rate monitor Yes I do use one. And yes Im quit obsessed with it..lol Should I be concerned with lower heart rate readings after extensive training? usually like 115 or so? Like I had said I can get it to around 142 at the highest but its pretty rare and may only last for a few seconds. I know that everyone is different so maybe this is just average for me... I dont know.

    I think the only thing that really needs a rest is my butt....lol ouch its getting sore.

    So I think for the sake of my butt Im going to back down to 5 days a week like you suggest.

    So Ill try:

    2 days on... 1 day off twice a week and fit my weight lifting in for the 3 days a week "I cant cut that down"

    Thanks for the book advice on the HRM Ill be sure to investigate.

    Later,
    DV8R

    "You dont stand a chance NooB"

  6. #6
    Member DV8R's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Chicago Area
    My Bikes
    F900 Cannondale Custom
    Posts
    46
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Hey Koffee you ever ride "the boones" in Westville Indiana? or Imagination Glen in Portage Indiana? Getting pretty popular good riding. XC tracks ofcourse. The boones is one of Team GT's spinning grounds. Nice 5 mile loop hard pack tons of roots, rocks pretty rough but real fast.

    Just asking noticed you were from my area.
    DV8R

    "You dont stand a chance NooB"

  7. #7
    sch
    sch is offline
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Birmingham. AL
    Posts
    2,593
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    If you are interested in ramping up your fitness to
    pro levels you should check into coaching, the most
    currently prominent of which is Carmichael Training
    Systems. Coaching costs from $100/mo up depending
    on the level of involvement. What you are doing is a
    start but only that. DIY doesn't go very far in the upper
    3% of cycling prowess, which is what you are shooting
    for. Coaches will want you to document your effort
    levels with Compuhub type equipment. HR of 142 sounds
    a bit on the low side for interval training. Steve

  8. #8
    Guest
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by DV8R
    Thanks for the details man. This is the type of feedback im looking for. As for the heart rate monitor Yes I do use one. And yes Im quit obsessed with it..lol Should I be concerned with lower heart rate readings after extensive training? usually like 115 or so? Like I had said I can get it to around 142 at the highest but its pretty rare and may only last for a few seconds. I know that everyone is different so maybe this is just average for me... I dont know.

    I think the only thing that really needs a rest is my butt....lol ouch its getting sore.

    So I think for the sake of my butt Im going to back down to 5 days a week like you suggest.

    So Ill try:

    2 days on... 1 day off twice a week and fit my weight lifting in for the 3 days a week "I cant cut that down"

    Thanks for the book advice on the HRM Ill be sure to investigate.

    Later,
    Ok, then the next thing you should do is test yourself. As I always say, everyone's heart rate ranges will be different. If you do a check under Anaerobic Threshold Test and Koffee Brown as the poster in the advanced search, you'll find a thread that details the 2 X 20 Anaerobic Threshold Test. Follow that test to get your heart rate numbers, then start training from there.

    I would not even know how to comment on your current heart rate numbers- could be too high, could be too low, could be just right. A test would be the indicator of where you should be training. I have a friend who's about 34 years old, and back when she was racing and 29 years old, she told me that when her heart rate went to 139, it was so high, she would pass out. I was not as in shape as her, not racing at all, a year younger than her, and my highest heart rate was something like 190. Heart rates are very individual to the person, so don't look at what others are doing, or what their heart rate monitors tell them when they are training- you pay attention to what your numbers are.

    All right, get the books, then take a good month to train the 5 days a week and read through it. Then let's talk about what you've read and put together a program for you so you can properly train, ok?

    Koffee

  9. #9
    Member DV8R's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Chicago Area
    My Bikes
    F900 Cannondale Custom
    Posts
    46
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Man I know it does sound low comparred to all the posts I read here but if I want to get it over 142 on intervals I have to be going like 35 mph at a moderate saddled climb for a steady 2 minutes to maintain it even. I run at 115 - 132 or so at around 25mph at medium/high resistance "or a saddled climb"

    I never have a problem being winded either unless Im hardcore pounding the pedals. And if I do get winded I recover very fast.

    I dont know what to think really what I deal with seems to conflict with just about every post I read. Most posts are very high heart rates... man if I had a 180 HR I think I would internally combust or something....lol just does not seem possible for me to get anything near even 170 without doing either a resistence I could barley even spin or for a long period of time or have to do a steady 45mph for who knows how long at a saddled climb which doesnt seems to be what I want to do or need to do for that matter.

    Now Im starting to feel like a freak or something....lol

    I guess Im going to have to consider a coach just to figure this out. Thanks for the feedback guys.
    DV8R

    "You dont stand a chance NooB"

  10. #10
    Guest
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by DV8R
    Hey Koffee you ever ride "the boones" in Westville Indiana? or Imagination Glen in Portage Indiana? Getting pretty popular good riding. XC tracks ofcourse. The boones is one of Team GT's spinning grounds. Nice 5 mile loop hard pack tons of roots, rocks pretty rough but real fast.

    Just asking noticed you were from my area.
    Dood, sorry. I don't know the boones. I used to ride from downtown Chicago into Indiana and beyond (past Hammond and Whiteville ??), then turn around and come back. Plus, I do more road riding, never mountain biking, but it does look like fun. Drop me a pm and let me know what the boonies are. I wouldn't mind heading out there at some point.

    Koffee

  11. #11
    Guest
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by DV8R
    Man I know it does sound low comparred to all the posts I read here but if I want to get it over 142 on intervals I have to be going like 35 mph at a moderate saddled climb for a steady 2 minutes to maintain it even. I run at 115 - 132 or so at around 25mph at medium/high resistance "or a saddled climb"

    I never have a problem being winded either unless Im hardcore pounding the pedals. And if I do get winded I recover very fast.

    I dont know what to think really what I deal with seems to conflict with just about every post I read. Most posts are very high heart rates... man if I had a 180 HR I think I would internally combust or something....lol just does not seem possible for me to get anything near even 170 without doing either a resistence I could barley even spin or for a long period of time or have to do a steady 45mph for who knows how long at a saddled climb which doesnt seems to be what I want to do or need to do for that matter.

    Now Im starting to feel like a freak or something....lol

    I guess Im going to have to consider a coach just to figure this out. Thanks for the feedback guys.
    One last thing- do you have a bike computer? I haven't heard of many dudes that can ride 25- 35 miles per hour.... unless you're talking kilometers per hour? Especially when mountain biking- unless you're talking all downhill...

    All right, good luck on all that!

    Koffee

  12. #12
    Member DV8R's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Chicago Area
    My Bikes
    F900 Cannondale Custom
    Posts
    46
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Thanks again Koffee will do
    DV8R

    "You dont stand a chance NooB"

  13. #13
    Member DV8R's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Chicago Area
    My Bikes
    F900 Cannondale Custom
    Posts
    46
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Yes I have a computer and yes Im training at 25 mph right now "saddled" flat and climbing. Just moved up to 25 steady today. I can do around 35 or so pretty easily out of the saddle in 1 minute intervals low and high resistence and yes its MPH. Im a monster on the climbs Ill tell ya.....lol
    DV8R

    "You dont stand a chance NooB"

  14. #14
    The Cycling Photographer SipperPhoto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Orange, CA
    Posts
    1,404
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I don't think your computer is calibrated right, or you don;t have enough real resistance on your trainer... I can get up to about 35 mph on my trainer... but it is only with very little resistance... makes for a good spin... but mph doesn't really mean anything on a trainer

    Jeff
    Jeff

    Check out TorelliFan.com! Submit your bike, tell us about an epic ride, or just come to check out the eye candy!

  15. #15
    Member DV8R's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Chicago Area
    My Bikes
    F900 Cannondale Custom
    Posts
    46
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Ok first of all im using a new programable stationary bike not a trainer or rollers. The readings are accurate ....no dought. I ride a Cannondale with semi slicks so yes Its very common to push 25 MPH almost anywhere I go on or off road trail permitting of course. Most XC trails wont permit you to heed a steady 25 mph ...lol obviously.

    I tried a trainer and wasent very impressed I got a way better workout on a stationary by far. So I bought a nice programable one like the ones you commonly see at a nice gym.

    Anyway.... the original questions were this ..... is 20 miles a day at a steady 20-25mph enough to prepare for competitive racing? and the heart rate question which I am now just ignoring for the moment until I get it figured out.

    And frankly by the other posts I have read 20 miles per day seems to be fairly recreational as far as I can see now so Im doubling it up to 40. I dont need old man smith passing me by on the climb.....lol

    So I got what I needed as of now... Thanks for the help and info.
    DV8R

    "You dont stand a chance NooB"

  16. #16
    The Cycling Photographer SipperPhoto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Orange, CA
    Posts
    1,404
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I guess it all depends on how long your race is... if it is XC for 20 miles, then yes, I beleive that 20 mile training rides would suffice... but I know for road racing, generally the races are longer... you may want to train more miles...

    and really the more miles you put in at that kinda speed... the more your muscles, and cardio will be working for you...

    Jeff
    Jeff

    Check out TorelliFan.com! Submit your bike, tell us about an epic ride, or just come to check out the eye candy!

  17. #17
    Photog Extraordinaire Crack'n'fail's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Cincinnati, OH
    My Bikes
    Santa Cruz Chameleon, Cannondale R800 (CAAD4) with Dura-Ace upgrade
    Posts
    863
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I highly recommend reading Chris Carmichaels book the Ultimate Ride. The workouts might not suit you, but it really breaks down how riding at different heart rates affects your physiology. It's a good resource.

    Also, I think your heart rate readings must be out of whack. If you're putting in that kind of effort and not able to elevate your HR above what your saying, then something is wrong. The healthier you are, the higher you should be able to push your heart rate, not the other way around.

  18. #18
    Don't Believe the Hype RiPHRaPH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    chicagoland area
    My Bikes
    1999 Steelman SR525, 2002 Lightspeed Ultimate, 1988 Trek 830, 2008 Scott Addict
    Posts
    2,585
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    i'll weigh in here. i'm not as concerned with the 20 miles or the speed or the amount of time in the saddle. it's what you are doing during those 20 miles. a steady pace on a stadionary bike is a poor (IMHO) training method for any outdoor biking, be it mntn or road.

    i feel that you should have as an example:
    tuesday: steady pace
    wednesday: interval
    thursday: speedplay
    friday: light spin/recovery
    saturday &/or sunday: endurance, 90 minutes or longer
    monday: off

    you need to shock your body into making gains. the status quo will do you no good once you factor in bike handling, wind, terrain, etc.

    train like your race you want to ride. does it start steady then turn uphill then gets technical? simulate your race or training.

    you sound like you have a good solid fountation. i'd be cautious about riding too much indoors (not good for the mental aspect) --but every workout should have a specific goal. don't just get on the bike and pedal. have a specific plan or each ride.

    and with those HR numbers, you were given both a gift and a curse that you have to craft to your advantage.
    I have enough words to get me into trouble, but not enough to get me out of trouble.

  19. #19
    Member hacker44240's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Princeton, NJ
    My Bikes
    Harley
    Posts
    41
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    no offense but...

    If you are just starting out, you're way too old at 31 to ever be competitive in professional racing. No offense, but that's reality. Unless of course you are already as good as the pros and are just refining to peak for this spring pro season. Most racers your age are beginning to think about retiring.

  20. #20
    Guest
    Guest
    Not necessarily.

    I read an article about a woman who successfully began mountain bike racing (and winning) at 28 (I think before that, she was like a banker or something). At 32, she was one of the most successful female mountain bike racers in the USA. She actually thought she had at least a good 5 years or more to go before she even thought about retiring. I can't remember her name, but it was an article in Bicycling mag a couple of years ago.

    If you have the aerobic stamina, and you've got the endurance, you could race professionally for a good long time. It's all about training smarter as you get older, I think.

    True, I think the majority of people peak in their early 30s, but that's certainly exceptions to the rule.

    Koffee

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •