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Old 06-13-08, 08:59 PM   #1
volcycle
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Anaerobic vs. aerobic workouts

I have been reading the last two nights about different workouts. I have a hybrid and have been trying to ride pretty hard. My assumption(I know what that means) has been ride hard when you ride to get the best workout. My workouts have been between 30 and 60 minutes where I average around 16 to 17mphs. The other day I decided to try a 20mile ride and averaged 16.1mphs. I try to push hard and have several inclines. 2 that are .5miles each on my route. I just started looking at this training section. I have read about about anaerobic and aerobic workouts. One being better for weight loss than the other. weight loss is my primary goal along with a stronger heart. So should I increase my ride lengths with less intensity, maybe 2 hr rides instead of hour rides or continue to ride hard when I ride? Thanks for any advice.
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Old 06-13-08, 09:36 PM   #2
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Longer rides at whatever intensity will allow you to complete the ride. Shoot for at least 2 hours, and try to make a 3-4 hour ride every week. Also ride 5-6 days a week. That seems to make a big difference in my weight.

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Old 06-13-08, 10:23 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by volcycle View Post
I have been reading the last two nights about different workouts. I have a hybrid and have been trying to ride pretty hard. My assumption(I know what that means) has been ride hard when you ride to get the best workout. My workouts have been between 30 and 60 minutes where I average around 16 to 17mphs. The other day I decided to try a 20mile ride and averaged 16.1mphs. I try to push hard and have several inclines. 2 that are .5miles each on my route. I just started looking at this training section. I have read about about anaerobic and aerobic workouts. One being better for weight loss than the other. weight loss is my primary goal along with a stronger heart. So should I increase my ride lengths with less intensity, maybe 2 hr rides instead of hour rides or continue to ride hard when I ride? Thanks for any advice.
Go Vols
It depends.

The latest research validates that riding in higher heart rate zones for shorter periods (45- 60 minutes) burns just as much fat as riding in lower heart rate zones for a longer time (75- 120 minutes). The name of the game is stressing the body as much as possible during your workout so that afer your workout, the amount of time it takes for your body to return to its normal homeostasis. This phenomenon is called EPOC- excess postexercise oxygen consumption. Basically, EPOC is a term given to the amount of calories your body burns to return back to normal homeostasis. High intensity exercise keeps the body stressed longer- so in a nutshell, in addition to the calories you burn from your workout, you'll burn even more calories the longer it takes for your body to return to homeostasis. An easier workout may produce an EPOC period of only 30 minutes to an hour, but a high intensity exercise may produce an EPOC of up to ten hours! For a higher overall caloric expenditure, I'd go for the higher intensity exercises, such as interval training, over lower intensity exercises, such as LSD.

Now, I still don't believe in skipping base training- those LSD miles do more for building a strong heart than skipping over it and going straight into interval training. You just simply will not be as effective with your interval training if you don't train the body to be more efficient at using fat as a primary fuel source, build more mitochondria, and build bigger mitochondria. This happens in base building much more so than in interval training. Base training is better done in the off season, so you're a little late to the game.

Personally, I'd advise you to spend more time in base training and a small amount of time in interval training right now. As you get stronger, I'd test for lactate threshold improvements and improvements in VO2 max, and as I see those significant changes, begin adding in other types of training (ie intervals, fartlek, hill repeats, etc.).

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Old 06-14-08, 01:40 AM   #4
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I was under the impression that those EPOC values were over-stated and that EPOC alone cannot account for the entire change. I think generally people burn more total Calories in their high intensity exercise (or from blunted appetite), at least compared to when they were strolling on a treadmill for an hour and also there is some hormonal (intensity stimulating lipolysis) effect.
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Old 06-14-08, 04:57 AM   #5
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The EPOC values were overstated- dramatically overestimated. The fact of the matter is still that EPOC values are higher for higher intensity workouts verses lower intensity workouts. Your total calories burned for your overall workout will be greater with higher intensity bouts of exercise.

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Old 06-14-08, 05:15 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by koffee brown View Post
The EPOC values were overstated- dramatically overestimated. The fact of the matter is still that EPOC values are higher for higher intensity workouts verses lower intensity workouts. Your total calories burned for your overall workout will be greater with higher intensity bouts of exercise.

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Old 06-14-08, 05:28 AM   #7
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Old 06-14-08, 06:37 AM   #8
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Old 06-14-08, 07:07 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by koffee brown View Post
It depends.

The latest research validates that riding in higher heart rate zones for shorter periods (45- 60 minutes) burns just as much fat as riding in lower heart rate zones for a longer time (75- 120 minutes). The name of the game is stressing the body as much as possible during your workout so that afer your workout, the amount of time it takes for your body to return to its normal homeostasis. This phenomenon is called EPOC- excess postexercise oxygen consumption. Basically, EPOC is a term given to the amount of calories your body burns to return back to normal homeostasis. High intensity exercise keeps the body stressed longer- so in a nutshell, in addition to the calories you burn from your workout, you'll burn even more calories the longer it takes for your body to return to homeostasis. An easier workout may produce an EPOC period of only 30 minutes to an hour, but a high intensity exercise may produce an EPOC of up to ten hours! For a higher overall caloric expenditure, I'd go for the higher intensity exercises, such as interval training, over lower intensity exercises, such as LSD.

Now, I still don't believe in skipping base training- those LSD miles do more for building a strong heart than skipping over it and going straight into interval training. You just simply will not be as effective with your interval training if you don't train the body to be more efficient at using fat as a primary fuel source, build more mitochondria, and build bigger mitochondria. This happens in base building much more so than in interval training. Base training is better done in the off season, so you're a little late to the game.

Personally, I'd advise you to spend more time in base training and a small amount of time in interval training right now. As you get stronger, I'd test for lactate threshold improvements and improvements in VO2 max, and as I see those significant changes, begin adding in other types of training (ie intervals, fartlek, hill repeats, etc.).

koffee
Koffee I gotta hand it to you, great post.
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Old 06-14-08, 07:44 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Nickel View Post
I was under the impression that those EPOC values were over-stated and that EPOC alone cannot account for the entire change. I think generally people burn more total Calories in their high intensity exercise (or from blunted appetite), at least compared to when they were strolling on a treadmill for an hour and also there is some hormonal (intensity stimulating lipolysis) effect.
You've got it right.

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Originally Posted by koffee brown View Post
The EPOC values were overstated- dramatically overestimated. The fact of the matter is still that EPOC values are higher for higher intensity workouts verses lower intensity workouts.
Agreed.

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Originally Posted by koffee brown View Post
Your total calories burned for your overall workout will be greater with higher intensity bouts of exercise.
No, while the effect is real, the magnitude of the effect is too small to make that much difference. It takes very little additional exercise to burn more net Calories.

Of course, going long and moderately hard will burn more than long and easy.


Comparison of energy expenditure elevations after submaximal and supramaximal running.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9...ubmed_RVDocSum
Notwithstanding the higher EPOC for supramaximal interval running compared with submaximal continuous running, the major contribution of both to weight loss is therefore via the energy expended during the actual exercise.

Effect of exercise intensity and duration on postexercise metabolism.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2...ubmed_RVDocSum
The nine EPOCs ranged only from 1.0 to 8.9% of the NTOC (mean 4.8%) of the exercise. These data, therefore, indicate that in well-trained subjects the 8-h EPOC per se comprises a very small percentage of the NTOC of exercise.

Last edited by Enthalpic; 06-14-08 at 07:49 AM.
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Old 06-14-08, 07:55 PM   #11
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Hi Enthalpic-

I definitely agree with you- my main concern with using EPOC is seeing how many calories I can squeeze out of my workout. For me, every single calorie is one more calorie burned off towards weight loss. I don't mind that the EPOC isn't as high as originally thought, but I do mind that I continue to recover from the stress hours later, and I'm burning some calories from this. Every calorie burned counts towards my overall goal of taking off the pounds, so I'm cool with that.

Oh- there is a GREAT article written out there about activities that can keep that EPOC value higher- try this: www.coopersguns.com/files/research/epoc/exercise-afterburn_1104.pdf . There is a great tidbit in a chart towards the bottom of the pdf.

koffee
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Old 06-14-08, 10:58 PM   #12
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Longer rides at whatever intensity will allow you to complete the ride. Shoot for at least 2 hours, and try to make a 3-4 hour ride every week. Also ride 5-6 days a week. That seems to make a big difference in my weight.

Az
+10

The longer rides are more efficient use of your time. Assuming it takes 15 minutes to warm up, in a 60 minute ride you get 45 minutes of workout, but a 120 minute ride gets you a 105 minute workout.

You will also be in the fat burning zone longer, which will help you be more efficient at burning fat (ie you will burn a higher percentage of fat at a given power level).
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Old 06-15-08, 01:08 PM   #13
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i would add a good weight training regime. super good anaerobic. obviously, stick with compounds - mainly squat, deadlift, bench press. im guessing you dont want to add any muscle, so low rep, strength focussed training is best.
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Old 06-17-08, 01:21 PM   #14
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Hi Enthalpic-

I definitely agree with you- my main concern with using EPOC is seeing how many calories I can squeeze out of my workout. For me, every single calorie is one more calorie burned off towards weight loss. I don't mind that the EPOC isn't as high as originally thought, but I do mind that I continue to recover from the stress hours later, and I'm burning some calories from this. Every calorie burned counts towards my overall goal of taking off the pounds, so I'm cool with that.

Oh- there is a GREAT article written out there about activities that can keep that EPOC value higher- try this: www.coopersguns.com/files/research/epoc/exercise-afterburn_1104.pdf . There is a great tidbit in a chart towards the bottom of the pdf.

koffee
Here is another vote for welcome back...I for one missed your presence.
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Old 06-17-08, 01:59 PM   #15
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Here is another vote for welcome back...I for one missed your presence.
And one more vote koffee; it's great to hear from you again.
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