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  1. #1
    Senior Member buddy's Avatar
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    Help with my endorance

    On Monday I took the 2x20 anaerobic threshold test, my AT is 148 and my max heart rate is 175 and I am 52 years old. I have been riding for about 3 years.

    I need to increase my endurance. If I ride between 15 to 17 mph I can hold it for all day but if my speed increases over 17 mph I start losing it real fast. If I am in a group ride and we are riding at 17 mph my heart rate will be about 142 and I am very comfortable, if the speed is cranked up to 20 mph my heart start going up to about 152 bpm and at 22 mph my heart is racing over 160 bpm and that when I get dropped.

    I would like to be able to ride in that range between 20-22 without getting dropped.

    Most of my training during the week is on a trainer in which I will train for about one hour, my sit down bone canít handle more than an hour. On the weekends I like to ride longer group rides.

    What is the best strategy on a trainer to increase my endurance? Is one hour a day during the week on a trainer enough to increase my endurance?

    I have been following workouts from Sally Edwards book.

    Thanks for the help

  2. #2
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    it may not be a matter of endurence, per se.

    I used to have the very same thing. I could go 20mph all day, but lift the pace a couple mph and then just start the countdown until I popped.

    What helped me was getting comfortable spinning higher cadences.

    Basically, you will then be riding that same speed, but in a lighter gear. Once you are used to the higher cadence, (and our bodies hate surprises so at first the higher cadence can be taxing), you will be able to ride that higher speed more efficiently.

    Since you are more efficient, the higher speed isn't as taxing as it is now, and you can keep your pace up and remain in a heart rate range that you can keep up for longer.

    That's the idea, anyway

  3. #3
    just another gosling Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
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    It's not endurance, it's the ability to put out more power (watts) continuously. Some call it strength, but it's not weight-lifter strength, it's cycling strength. First thing is to raise your AT HR. At your age and MHR, you should be able to get your AT up into the high 150s.

    That takes intervals. Start with three 15 minutes at AT, 10 minutes between in zone 2. Or hold your AT HR as long as you can, then take the 10 minutes recovery. Since you're on a trainer, take some of that 10 minutes out of the saddle to rest your butt. You'll know you're at AT if at the end of 15 minutes on the first interval, your legs are about gone. Try that once a week for 2-3, then do rest week.

    Then do some harder intervals, 3-4 intervals of 4 minutes essentially as hard as you can and not collapse, with 3 minutes of zone 2 between. Do that for 2-3 weeks, then a rest week, and go back and try the AT intervals again.

    On your weekend rides, hang with the fast boys and girls until your legs simply give out, then proceed at your own rhythm. That's just another way of doing the same intervals.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
    It's not endurance, it's the ability to put out more power (watts) continuously. Some call it strength, but it's not weight-lifter strength, it's cycling strength. First thing is to raise your AT HR. At your age and MHR, you should be able to get your AT up into the high 150s.

    That takes intervals. Start with three 15 minutes at AT, 10 minutes between in zone 2. Or hold your AT HR as long as you can, then take the 10 minutes recovery. Since you're on a trainer, take some of that 10 minutes out of the saddle to rest your butt. You'll know you're at AT if at the end of 15 minutes on the first interval, your legs are about gone. Try that once a week for 2-3, then do rest week.

    Then do some harder intervals, 3-4 intervals of 4 minutes essentially as hard as you can and not collapse, with 3 minutes of zone 2 between. Do that for 2-3 weeks, then a rest week, and go back and try the AT intervals again.

    On your weekend rides, hang with the fast boys and girls until your legs simply give out, then proceed at your own rhythm. That's just another way of doing the same intervals.
    I also think intervals are the ticket. Note that you get the most improvement out of intervals when you are well rested and when you recover fully between them. If you don't do that, you won't see the improvement you're looking for.

    Most riders make the mistake of riding too hard most of the time and not hard enough when they're doing intervals.

    You might also consider Carmichael's book or Friel's book.
    Eric

    2005 Trek 5.2 Madone, Red with Yellow Flames (Beauty)
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    Read my cycling blog at http://riderx.info/blogs/riderx
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  5. #5
    Senior Member buddy's Avatar
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    Thanks for the suggestions. I will start doing the 3-15 intervals at AT with the 10 minute recovery. I never though of getting out of the saddle to rest your butt during the recovery periods. I guess I can do jumping jacks to keep my heart rate up.

    Should I try to go higher than my tested AT? Instead of holding at 148bpm go to 152 (if I can).

    This past Friday I did a small group ride of 45.5 miles my average speed was 15.9 my average heart beat was 133bpm. The ride was a fun 4th of July ride.

    Again thanks for the great info.

    buddy

  6. #6
    just another gosling Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
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    Absolutely go higher than your tested HR on the AT intervals - if you can. Don't do 3 minute intervals at AT. 15 minutes. Go at a HR that will just let you complete the first 15 minute interval before the pain in your legs or lungs forces you to slow down. It might take a couple attempts to see what that HR is. Try to hold the same speed through the whole interval, even though your HR will climb at first. As you get better, your HR will hold steady at the same speed for the whole 15 minutes. Even though you think you are going to die, you won't. Most people start out too fast at first, blow up, and slow down. Your correct pace will be somewhere between the "blow up" pace and the "slowed down to" pace.

    Put your hands on the bar tops. Straighten your back. Relax your shoulders. Breathe from your stomach. Try to pedal circles. Use a 90-100 cadence. Imagine there is a cushion of air between your feet and your shoes. Think about your pedaling, not the pain.

    I do the successive intervals at the same speed as the first one. At first in the early season, I won't be able to hold that speed for the whole 15 minutes, but as my condition improves I'll be able to. You want to be pushing the envelope.

    I didn't mean get off the bike to rest your butt. "Out of the saddle" is cyclist jargon for riding standing. Shift into quite a bit larger gear and just pump standing for a minute. That usually does it. Try to keep a tight chain. Maybe you could fit 2 separate standing minutes into your recovery period. You should do the same thing on a long climb - about every 10 minutes shift up several gears and stand until your legs get tired. You should hold about the same speed as when seated, though your standing HR will be higher.

  7. #7
    Senior Member buddy's Avatar
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    Again thanks for all of your valuable information.

    Help me get my terminology correct. When I said "3-15 interval" did that mean 3 15 minutes intervals or is it the other way 15-3?

    Any way I did 3 15 minutes intervals today as you suggested. And my whole body burned towards the end. I did the following:

    Warm up 5 minutes, average speed 11.2 mph, av heart rate 106bpm max 115bpm, average cadence 86 rpm

    1st 15 minutes, average speed 25.2, average heart rate 142bpm max 155, average cadence 99

    rest 1o minutes, average speed 16.2, average heart rate 132bpm max 153, ave cad 76

    2nd 15 minutes, average speed 24.7, average heart rate 152bpm max 162, ave cad 97

    rest 10 min, ave speed 13.75, ave heart 138bpm max 157, ave cad 80

    3rd 15 min, ave speed 22.7, ave heart 150bpm max 162, ave cad 93

    (These intervals were done on my trainer, I wanted higher cadence so I had the trainer set for easy tension these speeds do not look very realistic)

    Is this what you where suggesting?

    Should I increase the tension on the trainer.

    How often should I do this?

    Thanks

    buddy

  8. #8
    just another gosling Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
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    Yes, that's exactly what I was suggesting. Notice that your HR's were lower in the first interval. That's normal. It takes a while for your body to get "turned on." You got a little tired in the last interval, also normal. Pay no attention to the speed, except that it is fairly consistent. Your cadences look about right. Don't increase the tension, unless your HR doesn't come up. HR is all you are after, so whatever you need to get it. The high cadence allows you to produce a higher HR without exhausting your legs. All good. Try to get your HR higher earlier in the interval, so your average HR is higher in the last two intervals.

    I did a long climbing ride yesterday, holding my LTHR for 45 minutes near the top of the last climb, then punching it up into anaerobic territory for the last 10 minutes. That's the goal. My cadence was much lower than what you are using on the trainer, only 78-85. For some reason I don't fully understand, it's easier to attain high HRs on the mountain than on the trainer, and at much lower cadences.

    You'll have to figure out for yourself how often to do intervals. This is how it goes for me: My goal is always to have fun on my weekend rides, which means riding with my buddies and not getting dropped. So that turns out to be most of my week's interval training right there. If I do too much midweek intensity, I can't go hard on the weekend. OTOH, if I don't do anything hard midweek, I'm liable to get dropped because I'm not getting stronger and my buddies are.

    You will be able to tell that you are overdoing it when you can't achieve these HR's. IOW, if you try to do these intervals and your heart just won't go, quit the attempt and just do zone 2. I recommend starting with once a week, Wednesday or Thursday, and see how that goes. If you are recovering well, you could try Wednesday and Thursday. No more. Do an easy ride the day after your intervals.

    Also take note of your strength on the hills. If you find yourself grabbing an easier gear than you normally use, you are way overdoing your total week's intensity. Back it off for a couple of weeks until your strength returns. Your goal is to get stronger. You may find that doing these intervals for a couple of weeks absolutely catapults your ability on the hills, then suddenly you fall back off. Again, overdoing it. In that case, don't make the mistake of doing more. Do less, instead.

    And have fun!
    Last edited by Carbonfiberboy; 07-07-08 at 08:51 AM.

  9. #9
    Senior Member buddy's Avatar
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    Where I live it is flater than a pancake no hills at all. I wish there were some hills to practice on but that is not the case.

    Today, hopefully if all goes well with work and I can escape a little early- I am planning on going on a group training ride. It is a "B" group and there pace is around 20-22 mph I am going to try to hang with this group as long as possiable untill I get dropped.

    I have really been training hard and I hope to see some improvement.

    I will let you know.

    buddy

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