Zan

yes, before y'all get snappy, i have searched the forums.

and while searching the forums, it would appear that the guys posting about overtraining were doing 1.5 - 3 hours a day... but were all still feeling great - they were just asking if they should take a day off or something.

i've been trying to ride for 90 minutes a day. weather and other events have been preventing me.

anyways, i've noticed a few things... last year in the fall i had a resting heart rate of about 54bpm. this figure was measured over a period of a couple weeks; my hr averaged between 54 - 60bpm. THIS year i'm riding a lot more than last year. i am a much stronger rider as well. still, my resting HR is up near 70 - 75... which is... higher? than last year. i was expecting it to be lower than last year as i'm "stronger" and have been doing more cardio than last year...

i've been losing motivation to go out on rides. i feel tired a lot. having trouble falling asleep (this isn't too new for me, though... i've been an insomniac due to stress for the past few years - it gets better/worse).

these are all symptoms of overtraining... but i'm only doing 60 - 90 minutes a day!!! the volume is next to nothing and the frequency is maybe 4rides/week, which is also nothing.

i do other activities outside of riding (softball, volleyball, lawncutting, trail maintenance). would this contribute to my overall status?

i am eating healthy.

i'm going to try and switch up my sleep/wake routine; hopefully i'll get more sleep this way.

what am i doing wrong?

ottsville

sounds like overtraining

One could influence the other

What about intensity? Cumulative training stress?
yes
Maybe nothing. But if you are losing motivation to ride, how bad would it be to take a week or two off and go do something else(or nothing)?

Zan

maybe i'll hit the trails more and back off on the road riding. i take it easier on the trails... and prefer riding the trails more.

perhaps it'll help...

Carbonfiberboy 

Well, that's a hard one. I'd get a physical and complete blood work. Doesn't seem right. Possible that you just ride too hard all the time. That would do it.

Do you use a HRM? If so, what does the data look like?

Do you have a set of rollers or trainer? If so, what do you do with them?

How long have you been riding on the road?

About how many miles do you think you rode last year?

Job or general life stress is similar to training stress. Glandular. They add together.

Zan

I don't use a HRM. sometimes i'll measure my HR when i approach a set of lights. i don't have much time to measure my HR at the lights as they change quick, but i think i'm ranging 170 - 180bpm at the lights.

no rollers or trainer.

this season i started riding... in march. the volume + frequency was really low back then and has gradually increased.

been riding a bike "seriously" for two seasons, this being my second. i started riding on the roads about a year ago.

i figure last year i rode 1/2 or 1/3 of what i'll ride this season... don't know what that figure is, though. currently i'm trying to get in 40km a day. sometimes i throw in a trail ride which takes an hour (another 10k).

this has been going on for a couple of weeks... i'm not overly concerned, yet. my softball season has ended, so that's one thing off the plate. if this "condition" continues, even with the extra hours of sleep, i'll see my doctor.

spunky

Many people mistakenly believe that overtraining is simply about volume of exercise. You have to take into consideration all of the other factors/stressors in your life. The fact that you admit you've had insomnia for years because your life stresses you out is a dead give away. Lack of sleep alone will gradually lead to fatigue, not to mention the mental stress you're under that is consuming and draining your energy. You've probably lived in this state for so long that you don't recognize the toll it's taken on your recovery and mental state. I'd take a look at trying to resolve some of the issues that's causing your insomnia first.

nivek73

have you ever had your thyroid tested? that can lead to fatigue and insomnia along with a higher resting hr. I would definitely look into it.

Carbonfiberboy 

Ah, only going on for a couple of weeks. Well then, your life may yet be saved!

#1 - do get that HRM. The simplest kind will work fine. For me, it's the only way to keep the intensity down to a level where I can do the volume I want without getting overtrained. Otherwise, I'd just go, go, go!

Coaches tell trained riders to increase their yearly volume only by about 10%. You can go way past this, but still it is a factor. Base develops over years, not just during a season. So think about keeping that intensity down and just building relatively easy base miles. Just because you're riding easy doesn't mean it doesn't do anything.

That's what's behind my "rollers or trainer" question. I can only do a recovery ride on my rollers. Outdoors I always go too hard. So even in summer, I'll still do one ride a week on the rollers, an easy recovery ride after a hard one. You might think about that.

So take it easy for a while, and then try to go hard only once or twice a week, including one ride when you go really hard. Otherwise, try to keep it down to 70%-80% of max HR. Do your easy rides at about 65% of max HR.

Zan

i don't have a lot of $$$. rollers/trainers appear to be expensive. i really want to get a set for the winter, and i am scouring craigslist for them... with no luck.

how expensive is a "HRM that will do the job?" the ones i see in the stores are $$$ ... are there any i can get for just $$?

i might get both a trainer/rollers + a HRM so i know i'm getting a cardio workout. i suppose since i'm into the sport and have already invested $$$$, trainers/roller + a HRM might be a good investment as well.

----

i'm still a kid, so i haven't done many of the physical tests y'all are referring to.

Enthalpic

90min 4 times per week is unlikely to result in the classical overtraining syndrome. Not too say that excessive intensity at that volume can’t cause fatigue or even injury, but I doubt it’s enough to say training is the cause of your problems.

Quite likely you could be suffering from depression. Sleep disruption and loss of interest in favorite activities are warning signs; add to that an environment of chronic stress…

Zan

depression isn't a new thing for me... but it's mostly affected by weather. on nice days in the summer i'm okay. during the "wonderful" winter here, i'm dead.

Enthalpic

If you have seasonal affective disorder (SAD) I recommend taking cod liver oil once per day during the winter months.

You may also want to consider moderate dose zinc and magnesium supplementation (eg 25 and 150mg/day respectively) during intense training periods.

ericgu

You have classic overtraining symptoms, *but* I agree with the others that you should get some tests to see if there are other factors.

What you are doing wrong is not addressing any of the issues you have and thinking that your situation will get better.

The way you address it is with significant changes. You need to get off the bike for a week or two, and curtail your other activities. Figure out how to deal with your stress and other issues.

And when you start back, start really slowly.

bodaciousguy

I know that whenever I'm overtrained I breath a lot harder for a smaller power output during group rides. I think that whenever you have a sudden drop in performance (I'm not talking about gradual decline from fatigue or overreaching), it's a sign of overtraining.

Machka 

60-90 minutes a day is pretty low to be overtraining ... in fact, it is the recommended amount of daily exercise. And 170-180 bpm is pretty high. Slow down ... take it easy. Ride with your HR in about the 130-140 range.

127.0.0.1

sounds like you are doing way more thinking
and not enough riding

oh yeah...
weather and other events are not preventing you from riding more,
it is only you


I -used- to make excuses...
and then...I stopped. works great.

dwilbur3

170 to 180 bpm is way too fast. Keep it at 70-80% of your max HR, with occasional overruns (peaking hills for example). That'll improve your cardio and make it easier to go faster later.

nafun

Don't let people convince you that you can't over train on 4 60-90min rides per week. These are people that have been riding for many years and are used to training much more, but just because they can't over train on this volume does not mean you can't.

Your description sounds very familiar to me. You think you aren't doing much volume, so you should always ride hard to get the most out of your time. If you have a bad day because you are tired, you just push through because you are off the next day. Since you almost always have a day off between rides, you think you will be recovered by the next ride and can hammer again.

This is how i would "train" towards the end of my first year of riding. The way you describe feeling sounds like the way i felt for the 3-4 weeks before i got mononucleosis. If you do not take a real break soon, your body will force you to. If you wait until you are forced to take a break, it will need to be a much longer break.

So, take a break. When you come back, ramp the intensity back up slowly.

arexjay

You said you are eating healthily, but maybe you're not eating enough. How many calories do you consume each day?

Also, make sure you're taking in enough water.

umd

Why do people keep spouting this this one-size-fits-all BS. Without knowing his max HR, you can't know if 170 is too high. Also, he is counting beats so there is a lot of error involved.

bhikkhu

There are many ways to overtrain - it just means you are working beyond your bodies capacity and tearing things up faster than you can rebuild. Diet and sleep are the biggest variables that determine how much training you can take and how fast you recover, so you might look at those before saying its the cycling that has to change. Sleep and eat better and that might be enough, though (as mentioned above) there are many other possible stressors.

When I was racing I was always prone to over training - I just pushed things as hard as I could every time I went out, and then woke up every morning after fired up to go hard again. I was always good about sleep, and did pretty good with diet - just eating enough was a challenge so I took protein supplements, and I made sure my weight wasn't dropping.
Resting heart rate (RHR) was the key, though. I measured my RHR every morning and I could gauge what kind of shape I was in by how it went up or down from a baseline. I'd train by the week, expecting a good RHR on Monday (say, 42) a worn-out RHR (48 or so) by Thursday after hard anaerobic intervals, and recovering through the weekend on longer easy aerobic rides.

That's the best method I found, and it kept me going for about 4 years of 400 mile a week averages during the season.

dwilbur3

A percentage of max HR is not one size fits all. His max HR would have to be about 250 for this to be a reasonable workout. Maybe it could happen but it's way outside the bell curve.

umd

170 is 80% of 212, which is pretty high but not unreasonable for a max HR. Machka's comment was particularly innane... 130bpm is a recovery ride for many people.

StanSeven

I doubt you are overtraining. You need a medical checkup and a discussion with a counselor. People that exercise a lot do it for one of three reasons - they are very competitive and want to do well in competition; they are very concerned about their health; or exercise is an outlet. MY guess is you fall into that last category and you need to find out why.

There are lots of reasons for depression. But the fact that you list all the other symptoms indicates yu likely need some counseling.

Machka 

No, Machka's comment was not innane at all.

1) Zan is feeling a bit overtrained, and is reporting high heart rates on his rides. My suggestion was for him to slow it down and to ride with his HR in the 130-140 range. If that's "recovery" for him, great! It sounds like that's what he needs.

2) A lot of long distance cyclists settle into the 130-140 range on their long, long rides because the pace that creates that HR is one that can be maintained for a long period of time.
https://www.ultracycling.com/training...ing_zones.html


Zan, about HR monitors ... check out some here. If you're just after heart rate, a simple, inexpensive one will do:
https://www.nashbar.com/results.cfm?s...art%20Monitors