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  1. #1
    Long Distance Cyclist Machka's Avatar
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    3-4 hours of exercise a day

    According to a new study ... if you've got a "fat gene" you need 3-4 hours of exercise a day. This might answer those, "why am I not losing weight" questions. Have a look:


    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26611180/
    http://www.cnn.com/2008/HEALTH/09/08....ap/index.html

  2. #2
    Zan
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    article says 3-4 hours of "moderate activity." i wonder if "intense exercise" would shorten the amount of time you have to spend exercising overall.

    an hour walking the dog is an hour walking the dog. skipping rope for an hour is a lot more.
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    Senior Member MrCrassic's Avatar
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    Here's something that I noticed while I was working in Midtown Manhattan:

    I often took the subway to go to work, and I noticed that there were plenty of heavier-set people taking the train as well (to their jobs in the same area). On the other hand, there were a few days where I would walk from the bus station to my job, which was a short 0.8 mile walk (I think). I then noticed that there were HARDLY ANY heavy-set people walking the same distance.

    I might be naive, but doesn't good weight/fitness management just involve a good amount of time actually moving around and making use of one's body, and making sure that one's doesn't overeat and gets the proper amount of nutrients? Then again, I'm 20 right now, so I may just still be getting lucky.
    Last edited by MrCrassic; 09-20-08 at 10:49 AM.
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  4. #4
    Senior Member Richard Cranium's Avatar
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    Machka, was this one of your "dumb on purpose" posts?
    According to a new study ... if you've got a "fat gene" you need 3-4 hours of exercise a day.
    Re-read the article. It actually says that any daily activity (of 3 or 4 hours) is enough to alleviate the "gene-variant."

    Good point about being unable to read critically. You, like most people, would make a poor research scientist.

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    It is hard to get reliable data from a second hand account of an article especially from a newspaper. There are many other factors to consider in one's life.

    I perceive that most people that live in the city do not live, eat and have anything much in common with the Amish. In reading something like this the external validity should be critiqued carefully because it looks at a set of genes that are present in the people in the Amish community and how it affects them. Internally, the study appears valid because of the homogenetiy, but it is this that which affects the external validity.

    Regarding this subject it is too much of an open system and the study contributes to the overall body of knowledge but cannot be viewed in isolation away from the body of knowledge itself. To imply causation from a simple and incomplete newspaper article ignores the processes that are part of a larger system.

    To address Zan, here is an experpt from the article that mentions an extra 900 calories a day, which the newspaper article somehow fails to mention.


    Activity levels in the "high-activity" stratum were approximately 900 kcal higher than in the "low-activity" stratum, which, depending on body size, corresponds to about 3 to 4 hours of moderately intensive physical activity, such as brisk walking, house cleaning, or gardening.18 Although this seems to be a large amount of physical activity, the OOA demonstrate that this level of activity was typical of an agrarian lifestyle without modern machinery. Of course, our cross-sectional study is unsuited to determine the amount of activity required to negate the effect of an FTO-related genetic predisposition to weight gain; however, in a retrospective analysis in which weight regain was measured as a function of physical activity energy expenditure, Schoeller et al18 found that the addition of 80 min/d of moderate activity or 35 min/d of vigorous activity to a sedentary lifestyle was sufficient for weight maintenance. Prospective intervention studies will be necessary to define these parameters more accurately.

    Physical Activity and the Association of Common FTO Gene Variants With Body Mass Index and Obesity.


    Evadnie Rampersaud, MSPH, PhD; Braxton D. Mitchell, PhD; Toni I. Pollin, PhD; Mao Fu, PhD; Haiqing Shen, PhD; Jeffery R. O’Connell, PhD; Julie L. Ducharme, MD; Scott Hines, MD; Paul Sack, MD; Rosalie Naglieri, MD; Alan R. Shuldiner, MD; Soren Snitker, MD, PhD

    Arch Intern Med. 2008;168(16):1791-1797.

  6. #6
    Non-Custom Member zeytoun's Avatar
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    The big flaw in the "logic" of taking the conclusion as a de facto truth is the assumption that calories are consumed and burned in a vacuum.

    If you estimate that people predisposed to weight gain take in a daily surplus of 900 calories, and that you're going to lose weight without changing diet, yes, of course a big lifestyle change of several hours of activity every day will do it.

    However, what it doesn't take into account are the effects of hormones in this equation. Over-eaters and overweight people (esp. out-of-shape ones) usually have huge Dopamine spikes and valleys, excess Cortisol, and deficient levels of endorphins, Oxytocin, Seratonin, DHEA.

    Exercise like bicycling significantly improves all of those hormones and endorphins, leading, in the long run to reduced overeating behavior.

    Notice that later in the study, 35 minutes of vigorous activity is sufficient to maintain weight.
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  7. #7
    Third World Layabout crtreedude's Avatar
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    I find about 30 to 45 minutes a day is enough to keep me in the good. The issue is, that if I am getting that much, pretty soon I want more. Just call me a endorphin junkie...

    Aside from riding a bike for enjoyment now (we live about a half a kilometer from my office, not really worth riding anymore), I actually use a scythe to cut 1 1/2 acres of grass about once a week (our lawn). Great for the back and a decent workout.

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    '05 NUEser EJ123's Avatar
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    Interesting. I wish there were more studies on this though.

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    I'll just step in and rebutt... NOT true. The National Weight Loss Registry disproves that 3- 4 hours per day. I'd wager to guess that if you were doing 3- 4 hours a day trying to lose weight and couldn't, you may be overtraining, which would cause the body to retain your fat.... unless you're eating enough to cover all that extra work you're doing!

    The National Weight Loss Registry shows that for people who've lost 60 pounds or more and kept it off for at least 5 years, they exercised 300 minutes per week of accumulated exercise. Additionally, the exercise was moderate to high intensity cardiovascular exercise. These people also participated in a weight training program and strictly monitored their diet: http://www.drlenkravitz.com/Articles/winningtwo.html

    Due to the overwhelming evidence of this study, new guidelines for eating were released- see the new food pyramid. Also, the American College of Sports Medicine significantly updated their guidelines, even for just being fit and healthy. It used to be "30 minutes, 3 days per week" just to be fit and healthy. Now, they say 30 minutes per day most days per week minimum just for being fit and healthy. For weight loss, the ACSM recommends 4.5 hours per week of moderate intensity, cardiovascular activity on a restricted calorie diet (reasonably restricted!!!!): http://www.acsm.org/Content/ContentF...ING_IT_OFF.htm

    Studies have supported the thought that doing more than 300 minutes of moderate intensity exercise does not result in losing any additional _fat_ loss over the long run.

    I believe the studies.

    koffee

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    Senior Member Jarery's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by koffee brown View Post
    Studies have supported the thought that doing more than 300 minutes of moderate intensity exercise does not result in losing any additional _fat_ loss over the long run.

    I believe the studies.
    You did read that the study in the OP's post was only relevant for people with a gene variation and not to the general public didnt you?
    Jarery

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  11. #11
    anything but last rOOster14's Avatar
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    i personally do not buy the fat gene theory.
    everyone has the disposition to turn unused energy into stored energy. There are about a bajillion contributing factors as to why your body might store more energy as fat than others...but there is still only one solution...
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  12. #12
    Senior Member Garfield Cat's Avatar
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    What happened to riding at around 70% of maximum heart rate? Or even 60% whatever you can get away with? Itsn't that supposed to burn stored fat rather than carbs?

    Or does that require a lot of riding time?

  13. #13
    RacingBear UmneyDurak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garfield Cat View Post
    What happened to riding at around 70% of maximum heart rate? Or even 60% whatever you can get away with? Itsn't that supposed to burn stored fat rather than carbs?

    Or does that require a lot of riding time?
    Not exactly. At lower intensity, you do burn higher percentage of fat of total calories you burn. That being said you burn total of less calories. At higher intensity you burn higher percentage of carbohydrates, but in the end you use up more calories total. You also use up your glocogen stores, so some of the food you eat is used to replenish those. Another side benefit of higher intensity exercise is that it boosts your metabolism slightly.
    Problem of course is that it's hard/impossible to do long exercises at high intensity. So if you only have 30 minutes or so, it's best to do higher intensity exercise. For three hours it's best to do LSD rides. Where LSD stands for Long Steady (not slow) distance rides. That is at intensity that you can maintain for amount of time you are riding. At least this is how I understand this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarery View Post
    You did read that the study in the OP's post was only relevant for people with a gene variation and not to the general public didnt you?
    Sure did.

    I don't believe in it. Being overweight is a combination of heredity and environment sometimes, but not all the time. Regardless, avoiding the blame game of saying some gene makes you fat and simply following what others have done successfully works best. Being overweight isn't just about a gene- it's about your lifestyle and the amount of exercise and eating- and making that lifestyle adjustment. Blaming it on a gene is taking the easy way out. Next thing you know, people will be asking for a fat pill to pop so they can burn the fat- whoops, oh yeah... they're already doing it!

    koffee

  15. #15
    You gonna eat that? Doohickie's Avatar
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    I'm pretty sure I got the fat gene (northern Euro stock), but I'm losing weight commuting back and forth to work, which turns out to about an hour to an hour and a half of exercise per day. That, and I'm watching my carbs.

    (I see people talk about carb loading and all that, and I think to myself, "I already got all the carbs I need; they're stored in these unsightly fat cells!)
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    Originally Posted by bragi "However, it's never a good idea to overgeneralize."

  16. #16
    Long Distance Cyclist Machka's Avatar
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    I have my doubts about a fat gene ... but who knows ...

    However, what I have observed from my own experience is that when I have been regularly active/exercising for 3-4+ hours a day ... I can eat whatever I want, and still lose weight.

    The thing is, it isn't that difficult to get quite a bit of exercise/activity in a day ...
    -- commuting to work, or a portion of the distance, by walking or cycling
    -- walking or cycling at lunch
    -- taking the stairs whenever possible
    -- take a walk around the office once an hour while at work (ergonomic break)
    -- lift weights while sitting and watching TV in the evening
    -- going for a bicycle ride or walk rather than watching TV in the evening
    -- parking in the furthest corner of the shopping mall parking lot to increase the walking distance
    -- getting an active full-time or part-time job
    -- etc. etc.

    Right now, I'm probably sitting at about an average of 2.5 hours of exercise a day ... and maintaining my weight.

  17. #17
    Pat
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    Well the evidence for the "fat gene" sounds largely correlational. The problem is that weight gain is a complex thing.

    A problem with the methodology is that genes are shared by related individuals. But related individuals often share more than genes. They have shared social habits and customs.

    I can think of bunches of customs that could contribute to obesity such as the kind of cuisine used, the amount of fat in the diet, how sedentary people are and so on.

    I think confirmation of a "fat gene" really requires that we understand the underlying biochemical mechanism of the gene. From the sources mentioned, they do not have anything like that for the FTO gene.

  18. #18
    Senior Member MrCrassic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by koffee brown View Post
    Sure did.

    I don't believe in it. Being overweight is a combination of heredity and environment sometimes, but not all the time. Regardless, avoiding the blame game of saying some gene makes you fat and simply following what others have done successfully works best. Being overweight isn't just about a gene- it's about your lifestyle and the amount of exercise and eating- and making that lifestyle adjustment. Blaming it on a gene is taking the easy way out. Next thing you know, people will be asking for a fat pill to pop so they can burn the fat- whoops, oh yeah... they're already doing it!

    koffee
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    Ride more.

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  19. #19
    your nightmare gal chipcom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrCrassic View Post
    I might be naive, but doesn't good weight/fitness management just involve a good amount of time actually moving around and making use of one's body, and making sure that one's doesn't overeat and gets the proper amount of nutrients? Then again, I'm 20 right now, so I may just still be getting lucky.
    IMO, you are correct. I ride to work almost every day, which comes out to roughly 3 hours on the bike per day, plus a minimum of 2-3 hours a day on weekends...yet my weight stays pretty much the same. The reason is no big secret to me - I like to eat, I like to eat the wrong things, and I normally don't get enough exercise outside of cycling (I work behind a desk and I am lazy when it comes to yard work).

    I used to be able to get away with my vices much better when I was younger too...so beware.
    Last edited by chipcom; 10-10-08 at 01:33 PM.
    "Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pat View Post
    Well the evidence for the "fat gene" sounds largely correlational. The problem is that weight gain is a complex thing.

    A problem with the methodology is that genes are shared by related individuals. But related individuals often share more than genes. They have shared social habits and customs.

    I can think of bunches of customs that could contribute to obesity such as the kind of cuisine used, the amount of fat in the diet, how sedentary people are and so on.

    I think confirmation of a "fat gene" really requires that we understand the underlying biochemical mechanism of the gene. From the sources mentioned, they do not have anything like that for the FTO gene.

    I can see where you are coming from, there is a nurture perspective as well. Try to change your perspective somewhat and look at why certain people are skinny.

    I do not have any real evidence for you but, from a personal perspective I have grown up with people who remain skinny no matter what they do: They are very inactive; their work is largely seated; eat large quantities of food and; they remain very skinny. We grew up together and are still good friends, so we share much of the same culture. I am, and always have been much more active then them. My jobs have always required me to be on my feet all day I engage in intense workouts @ least 5 days a week. I would almost have to be cachectic to get to their weight and BF level.

    So if some people can be predisposed to being skinny, is there not a possibility that some may be predisposed to being overweight, or obese?

  21. #21
    Senior Member vger285's Avatar
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    There is a very good book out that i read twice,i think it would help alot of people in here if they took the time to read it, it's called SPARK by John J Ratey.It changed the way i look at some things and set me on a new track for fitness..joe

  22. #22
    Senior Member Richard Cranium's Avatar
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    Activity levels in the "high-activity" stratum were approximately 900 kcal higher than in the "low-activity" stratum, which, depending on body size, corresponds to about 3 to 4 hours of moderately intensive physical activity, such as brisk walking, house cleaning, or gardening.18 Although this seems to be a large amount of physical activity, the OOA demonstrate that this level of activity was typical of an agrarian lifestyle without modern machinery.
    Thanks for posting some of the actual study text.

    My own interpretation of the "news article" seems to be justified by the text you cite. I suspect the significance of the "900kcal" metric - tied to a 3 to 4 hour "window" could imply that a caloric expenditure rate ranging from 225 to 300 kcal per hour is necessary for suppression of the gene variant "fat symptoms." I would imagine this cost is in addition to basal caloric expenditures.

    But, like most of this thread's content , I'm just shoveling it in.

  23. #23
    Senior Member MrCrassic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chipcom View Post
    IMO, you are correct. I ride to work almost every day, which comes out to roughly 3 hours on the bike per day, plus a minimum of 2-3 hours a day on weekends...yet my weight stays pretty much the same. The reason is no big secret to me - I like to eat, I like to eat the wrong things, and I normally don't get enough exercise outside of cycling (I work behind a desk and I am lazy when it comes to yard work).

    I used to be able to get away with my vices much better when I was younger too...so beware.
    Young people can definitely get away with eating a lot of the wrong stuff. It's amazing the kind of stuff some of our school's athletes would eat at night! Midnight breakfast was a grease spectacle!

    I've changed my diet around a lot, and I don't eat a lot of the bad stuff I used to eat two years ago. However, I still get worried that it's somewhat easy to keep the weight down because I'm young and my metabolism hasn't slowed down yet. With the way I'm eating (basically sticking to the pyramid diet -- follow Harvard's food pyramid), I think I should be good for a LONG time.
    Ride more.

    Code:
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     $i+3 > catch { break >>)).replace('&','') ; $ofs=" " # Replace right angles with right curly braces

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