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  1. #1
    Senior Member Rdbiker13's Avatar
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    How should I train this spring?

    Help!
    I've been training for an 150mile tour .This will be my 7th one. Even though it's not a race I like to beat my personal best each year.Plus my husband!!
    I start training in january indoors.I ride 100/110 miles a week and weight train my legs twice a week.I do this routine every year until spring.
    Last year I rode my all time high mileage from April 15 till June 25th I rode 1,551 miles. I tried in the last month of riding to dupicate the 150 mile ride by riding back to back 70's on mon/tues a 30 on wed before work and a 50 or more on thurs.I firgured if i got my body acustumed to riding those miles by the time the ride came it would hopefully be second nature.
    I finished 45th out of 538 which was good time but not good enough,and my husband who does weight training but no road riding is starting to close in on me.If he beats me I'll never live it down!!He'll bust my chops for ever. I think I over trained.Can anyone help me with a new aprouch.
    When the weather breaks I can only ride mon/tues/thurs/ short ride before work on fri.

    Thanks,
    Robin

  2. #2
    Senior Member Rdbiker13's Avatar
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    Whats up here !!! Isn't anyone gonna reply

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    Senior Member mymilkexpired's Avatar
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    What kind of weight training are you doing on your legs?

  4. #4
    Life is good RonH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rdbiker13
    I tried in the last month of riding to dupicate the 150 mile ride by riding back to back 70's on mon/tues a 30 on wed before work and a 50 or more on thurs.
    I think I over trained.
    Sounds like overtraining to me.
    Most people can't just jump in and ride long, hard miles. You have to build up to it.
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  5. #5
    Scooby Snax
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    I've been reading Sally Edwards Heart Rate Training Book, and she relates to people training 6 hrs a week for triathlons. So. maybe you are over training? Maybe not, prior to the event she advocates that you cut back, so that you are rested and in top condition.

  6. #6
    Just ride. roadbuzz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rdbiker13
    Whats up here !!! Isn't anyone gonna reply
    That's a lot of back-to-back training miles. Sounds to me like too much work, not enough recovery. Especially if you don't train through the winter.

    Given your current schedule, I'd spread it out. Long endurance Monday, very easy recovery Tuesday, long endurance Thursday, very easy recovery Friday. Rather than stack hard days back to back, work up to a 10-15 mile longer Monday ride, so that the first event day won't be as taxing.

    Recovery is the most overlooked aspect of training. Good article here:

    http://www.bike.com/template.asp?dat...ectionnumber=5

  7. #7
    Senior Member Rdbiker13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mymilkexpired
    What kind of weight training are you doing on your legs?
    This is what I do every Mon/Thurs. I do inner/outer thighs 3 sets of 10 each at 8plates. Seated extensions 3/sets 10/100lbs 8/110 lbs 8/110 lbs. Lying curls 3/sets 10/8plates 8/8p. 8/8p. Leg Press 3/sets 20/320lbs 15/410lbs 10/430lbs .I weigh 127 so thats about 3 1/2 times my weight. Last year I was lifting 500lbs but I cut down this year and increased my reps instead for endurance. I do half seated calf raises 3 sets 10/100lbs 10/115lbs 10/115 lbs.
    Full seated calf raises 3 sets 10/80lbs 10/90lbs 8/100lbs. Then I added somthing new to my routine.Iv'e been doing dead lifts for the last 3 weeks 3sets 15reps 55lb straight bar. I've been gradually moving up on the dead lifts this week I'm going for the 60lb bar. I don't do any squats because my knees give me problems I tried the hack squat machine I thought I'd be able to do those with less presure on my knees but no luck!! They were locking up on me later. I dislocated my left knee years ago bad!! The muscles tore peices off the bone and I couldn't bend it.They had to do othroscopic surgery to get the peices out .So thats why squats are missing from my routine. I try to do everything else I can to make my legs strong.I hope I wasn't to long winded

    Later,Robin

  8. #8
    Senior Member Rdbiker13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RonH
    Sounds like overtraining to me.
    Most people can't just jump in and ride long, hard miles. You have to build up to it.

    I did build it up. First I ride all winter indoors working on my stength. 100/110 miles a week alternating hard and easy days .I try to get as strong as I can before I hit the road in the spring. My first rides are 30/40mls then I gradually build up to 40/50mls then 50/70mls. This year I was going to cut back a little because the excessive miles seemed to be overkilll. Max maybe 60/65 I'm a little obessesive compulsive


    Later,
    Robin

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    Well if I understand you right and each week of the last month you rode that listed schedule as was mentioned you probably didn't taper off enough.I am not one for planning detailed schedules but the last several weeks(particularly the last) is not a good time to be pushing the miles and the day or two before the event you want to totally rest focussing on nutrition.As to weights most do not hit them hard twice a week particularly if also cycling.If hitting legs twice a week you could do one heavy and another light well spaced for recovery but I wouldn't even do this if I was cycling much.Also is the event 150 miles continuous or over two days?

  10. #10
    Senior Member Rdbiker13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RWTD
    Well if I understand you right and each week of the last month you rode that listed schedule as was mentioned you probably didn't taper off enough.I am not one for planning detailed schedules but the last several weeks(particularly the last) is not a good time to be pushing the miles and the day or two before the event you want to totally rest focussing on nutrition.As to weights most do not hit them hard twice a week particularly if also cycling.If hitting legs twice a week you could do one heavy and another light well spaced for recovery but I wouldn't even do this if I was cycling much.Also is the event 150 miles continuous or over two days?

    The ride is over 2 days. I did taper off in the last week but not enough,and I make sure to over hydrate days before the ride.Once I get outdoors around here it usually isn't until mid april.I don't weight train all. It's just too much.I use the weights in the winter to build my strength for the road.It's so hard to firgure whats too hard and whats not hard enough. Today I road the stationary upright bike 1hour 10min 25min L9 Rpms 110/118 hill program 25min L10 rpms 110/115 random program then I finish with 20min L11 hill program rpms 110/115 hrt avg 163/174 on the hills finishing after 3min cool down Hrt 138. Then I lift weights for my legs. That is my Mon/Thurs program. I've been making it a level harder on thurs.I'm trying to build more power.

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    I think your on the right track based on your last two posts.You do not need to duplicate the event right before I would treat that as a seperate event that needs to be well spaced from the one you are prioritizing.And like you said I don't think you even need to build to the one day total I think the 60-65 would be fine and on a schedule similar to what roadbuzz mentioned.I would also be interested in hearing his or others comments on whether you should be mixing some interval/speed type work into this schedule as I don't really train for speed(though I might start) and you seem to mention doing this on the trainer but not necessarily during spring.

  12. #12
    Senior Member Rdbiker13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RWTD
    I think your on the right track based on your last two posts.You do not need to duplicate the event right before I would treat that as a seperate event that needs to be well spaced from the one you are prioritizing.And like you said I don't think you even need to build to the one day total I think the 60-65 would be fine and on a schedule similar to what roadbuzz mentioned.I would also be interested in hearing his or others comments on whether you should be mixing some interval/speed type work into this schedule as I don't really train for speed(though I might start) and you seem to mention doing this on the trainer but not necessarily during spring.


    I was thinking about doing some speed training too.I don't know if it will be too much.The days I don't ride hard are my recovery days and if I push my rpms too hard on one of those days i'll be burning the candle at both ends.The only thing I can think of is what if I spin for speed on Mon and recover on Tues. Ride hard intervals on Thurs and recover on Fri. Those are the only four days I have to work with.What do you think?

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    I think you should probably just try to work a few speed intervals into your distance training particularly on days you are not too aggressive on increasing your distance and leave your real high intensity interval only sessions to the indoor trainer before you start increasing the distance.You could use a similar strategy for any hill work along with this particularly if there will be any hills.Starting short and not too intense at first and gradually increasing as to not affect your distance. As you have done these distances before you should be able to work up to them fairly quickly compared to just starting out allowing some gradual higher intensity work to increase your speed.

  14. #14
    Just ride. roadbuzz's Avatar
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    My $0.02:

    First, you must be doing something right, finishing 45th out of 500+. You must be doing something to stay in some kind of shape through the winter.

    For simply covering the distance at a good tempo, and recovering for the next day, continue to work on aerobic base and develop your aerobic threshold. I wouldn't start speed work (i.e. AT intervals or harder) until May. And don't even fool with sprints. Do the speed work on Monday, endurance Thursday. It takes longer to recover from and will slow you down. You can't do good speed work with dead legs.

    If whupping hubby is important, being fit is only half the equation. You need to fall in with a group! You need to be in good enough condition to contribute and hang with them. Pick a bunch that's going a pace that isn't too difficult, but not too easy. The sum is faster than the parts.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Rdbiker13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by roadbuzz
    My $0.02:

    First, you must be doing something right, finishing 45th out of 500+. You must be doing something to stay in some kind of shape through the winter.

    For simply covering the distance at a good tempo, and recovering for the next day, continue to work on aerobic base and develop your aerobic threshold. I wouldn't start speed work (i.e. AT intervals or harder) until May. And don't even fool with sprints. Do the speed work on Monday, endurance Thursday. It takes longer to recover from and will slow you down. You can't do good speed work with dead legs.

    If whupping hubby is important, being fit is only half the equation. You need to fall in with a group! You need to be in good enough condition to contribute and hang with them. Pick a bunch that's going a pace that isn't too difficult, but not too easy. The sum is faster than the parts.

    I know what you meam by the sum is faster than the parts.The problem is I can only ride in the morn after I drop my kids off at school 4/days during the week.Once in a while I would bump into an guy on my route and I would get more out of the ride.Most group rides are on the weekend. I work all day Sat and the only day my husband and I have off together is Sun and he gives me grief if I try to ride then.I've been talking to some people that ride on Sundays and trying to put a bug in my husbands ear about coming along.Thanks for your imput.

  16. #16
    Just ride. roadbuzz's Avatar
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    Well, riding with a group is a great motivational thing for training, but I mainly meant to get in with good pacelines during the event!

  17. #17
    Senior Member Rdbiker13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by roadbuzz
    Well, riding with a group is a great motivational thing for training, but I mainly meant to get in with good pacelines during the event!

    I always shoot for that. I caught a good one last year they were fast so I could only last at there pace 5/7miles.

  18. #18
    Don't Believe the Hype RiPHRaPH's Avatar
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    i think that you need to ride more intelligently, not necessarily longer.
    you only need one of those long rides once every 2 weeks. other than that, i'd focus one day on speed, one day on intervals and one day on easy spin.

    if you read articles by guys who have done RAAM, these other shorter rides are important, not just for your fitness but for your sanity.

    essentially your ride is broken down into 4 x 35 mile rides (you can break it down into any managable sections)

    speed is important, but only if it incorporated with endurance. so the speed, interval, on bike recovery (slow spin) are equally important.

    then as you progress, combining all these disciplines on the last long rides just before your event should cap off a great training period.

    come race day, there might be unforseen winds or weather that might prevent you from attaining your PR, but it won't be for lack of preperation.

    and try out different nutrition ideas, both on and off the bike so you aren't limiting yourself in that regard.
    I have enough words to get me into trouble, but not enough to get me out of trouble.

  19. #19
    Senior Member Rdbiker13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RiPHRaPH
    i think that you need to ride more intelligently, not necessarily longer.
    you only need one of those long rides once every 2 weeks. other than that, i'd focus one day on speed, one day on intervals and one day on easy spin.

    if you read articles by guys who have done RAAM, these other shorter rides are important, not just for your fitness but for your sanity.

    essentially your ride is broken down into 4 x 35 mile rides (you can break it down into any managable sections)

    speed is important, but only if it incorporated with endurance. so the speed, interval, on bike recovery (slow spin) are equally important.

    then as you progress, combining all these disciplines on the last long rides just before your event should cap off a great training period.

    come race day, there might be unforseen winds or weather that might prevent you from attaining your PR, but it won't be for lack of preperation.

    and try out different nutrition ideas, both on and off the bike so you aren't limiting yourself in that regard.
    Thanks for the reply! I have read in bicycling books that you have to mix it up to improve.I do think I need to do more of that come this season.I do it with my in door training but I fall prey to doing the same old thing on the road.I also do all my training alone. I feel that with out a partner that i might have done all I can on my own.(I just don't know)

  20. #20
    Senior Member JustsayMo's Avatar
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    Here's my few cents;

    Strength training should be done for the WHOLE body. Strength imbalances are recipes for injuries. I think your leg routine is pretty good but I'd up the reps on the extensions and curls to 15. There is a lot of knee sheer on those exercises. The leg press I'd go with fewer reps, say 12-15. The last reps should be the last rep you can do with good form or add resistance, decrease rest interval or pre-exhaust with another exercise prior to it.

    All that power in your legs needs to be stablized by your upper body to maximize the benefit of your gains. Back and Abs play a huge role in this. Pullups/Pulldowns, Low Cable Rows, Hyper extensions, shrugs for the back. 8 total or so sets of Abs (crunches, tucks, lifts, twists...)

    I'd do at least benching and shoulder press too. Not cycling specific but help mitigate injurys.

    Lastly, Short rides faster than ride pace. Long rides at ride pace. Taper way back prior to the event

  21. #21
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    ok, well i kind of skimmed all the comments...

    but it sounds like training MILES and TIME is not your limitation, but rather HOW you train.

    first, you should have a training PLAN with disticnt phases: strength, base, intensity, taper, race, recovery

    you need to plan this out for the year.

    i could write a few pages on this, but a few short comments:
    * only do the leg weight training in the winter and earle stages. afterwards it prevents you from thoroughly recovering so is more of a limiter than helper.
    * schedule more recovery
    * do more INTENSITY riding -- at best do 2 4-week intensity sessions AFTER you have a good base and do intervals, sprints and short time-trials.
    * make sure you REALLY reduce your riding in the weeks before an event

    P.S. my training is going great and i was about to start my 2 4-week intensity phases (April and May) and i have never been this fit so early in the year (resting pulse 40bpm in mid-March!)... but i just found out i tore my ACL and i have surgery next Thursday so my whole season is blown - i may not even be ABLE to ride my big ride in July!
    why drive when you can ride?
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  22. #22
    Senior Member Rdbiker13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JustsayMo
    Here's my few cents;

    Strength training should be done for the WHOLE body. Strength imbalances are recipes for injuries. I think your leg routine is pretty good but I'd up the reps on the extensions and curls to 15. There is a lot of knee sheer on those exercises. The leg press I'd go with fewer reps, say 12-15. The last reps should be the last rep you can do with good form or add resistance, decrease rest interval or pre-exhaust with another exercise prior to it.

    All that power in your legs needs to be stablized by your upper body to maximize the benefit of your gains. Back and Abs play a huge role in this. Pullups/Pulldowns, Low Cable Rows, Hyper extensions, shrugs for the back. 8 total or so sets of Abs (crunches, tucks, lifts, twists...)

    I'd do at least benching and shoulder press too. Not cycling specific but help mitigate injurys.

    Lastly, Short rides faster than ride pace. Long rides at ride pace. Taper way back prior to the event
    Guilty as charged!!
    In the winter around here I can't stand to be in the gym more than two hours a shot.I have 4 days to workout and I do 2hours each time so I neglect my Back & ABs .I know it's a sin. If i had one more day I would us it for that.I used to do it all but the indoor cycling takes up so much time that I just my train my Legs /Bi's/Tri's.I'm a bad girl.I know your right.

  23. #23
    Senior Member Rdbiker13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nathank
    ok, well i kind of skimmed all the comments...

    but it sounds like training MILES and TIME is not your limitation, but rather HOW you train.

    first, you should have a training PLAN with disticnt phases: strength, base, intensity, taper, race, recovery

    you need to plan this out for the year.

    i could write a few pages on this, but a few short comments:
    * only do the leg weight training in the winter and earle stages. afterwards it prevents you from thoroughly recovering so is more of a limiter than helper.
    * schedule more recovery
    * do more INTENSITY riding -- at best do 2 4-week intensity sessions AFTER you have a good base and do intervals, sprints and short time-trials.
    * make sure you REALLY reduce your riding in the weeks before an event

    P.S. my training is going great and i was about to start my 2 4-week intensity phases (April and May) and i have never been this fit so early in the year (resting pulse 40bpm in mid-March!)... but i just found out i tore my ACL and i have surgery next Thursday so my whole season is blown - i may not even be ABLE to ride my big ride in July!
    Wow you have a resting heart rate of 40bpm thats great.The lowest I've hit was 65bpm.I'm hoping it will lower since I cut out all added salts from my diet.
    That sucks about your ACL.I hope you recover fast!!
    P.s I only do weight training for my legs in the winter.Once I start riding I don't lift at all I figure I'm lifting all during the ride especialy up hill

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