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Thread: Getting started

  1. #1
    Senior Member SharpStone30888's Avatar
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    Getting started

    Hey guys,

    I have got my brothers old bike (a 1996 gemini mountain bike, which I fitted with thin knobless tires), this afternoon I rode 7 k's (sorry about the nomenclature I know most of you work with miles, but I live in Sydney, Australia).

    Anyway, I was thinking of ways to get into training and being able to perform the ride easily. The ride took me 26 minutes with an average speed of 16K's. It is a pretty flat ride but theres a killer hill at the end (short but real steep).

    I'm thinking that the water in my bottle won't do and am thinking of ways to make my own... The electrolytes in the sports drinks?? are they just normal table salt?? This might be a stupid question but is it?? Could I add a bit of apple juice (for flavour) to some water and add some salt and there I go ??????

    I am going to be getting a Trek FX 7.0 (or 7.3) for my 21st off my partner so i will be moving up from this old bike that makes bad noises (I think its the chain, it clicks rapidly when I pedal??)

    So how would a training regime look to get into riding? like frequency and intensity??? I pushed myself the whole way with only 2 sets of stop lights to have breaks at.

    Cheers,
    Chris

  2. #2
    Race and Ride michaeldmanthey's Avatar
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    Hi Chris, Water is all you need for rides under 2 hours. Over 2 hour rides you could usea sports drink of your choice and pack some easily digestable food. Training is all about hard work and recovery. The training site that I use has programs for all skill levels and for people doing a variety of different types of events. Do not ride hard every day. Make sure you have a warm up and cool down period of your rides. Watch out for Kangaroos.
    Follow my daily traing to becoming a Mt. Bike pro at mikedmanthey.blogspot.com
    Get free daily cycling tips and a 4 week climbing plan at www.cyclo-club.com/index.cfm?affID=30269.

  3. #3
    Senior Member SharpStone30888's Avatar
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    Thanks Michael,

    Yea water should do for now i'll worry about the sports drinks if I start doing longer rides.

    I also today went for a 9.2 K ride which took 34 minutes, so my average speed for the two trips is about 16.5 km/hr (or ~10 miles/hr). The thing with the recovery, I get home and sit down with a glass of ice water for about 15 minutes, then I have a nice sandwich (one of those super wholegrain breads), so there is lots of protein and fibre in there, I usually have lettuce, chicken, tomato and carrot on the sandwich. Then I have a drink of apple juice.

    I don't really do a warm up and cool down, I should take the first few minutes at a lower speed, then after just drop into a lower gear and do the block around my house.

    I'll check out your website aswell. I've heard that with training you need rest, generally every second day you exercise, so I broke that rule by training twice in a 24 hour period. My muscles will need to heal

    If I see any kangaroos I will be bloody shocked, they are never seen here, If I went out to the kangaroos it would be too hot to ride.

    I am having to ride before 9AM and after 7PM because its just so hot this time of year, we seem to be pushing 40 degrees every day (Celcius, I don't know the conversion). So the water is nearly all gone on even a half hour ride, I might need another water bottle holder.

    Thanks again.

    Chris
    Last edited by SharpStone30888; 02-11-09 at 06:34 PM. Reason: spelling mistake

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    just keep riding for now at a steady pace and do not worry about the speed. once you've been at it a few weeks you notice a massive increase in performance. maybe then start looking at your speed and ways to improve it.

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    Senior Member SharpStone30888's Avatar
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    Heres an update.

    So I've been riding for a few weeks. I did my initial 7.1Km ride, then a 9.2 Km ride. I have no gone and done another 3 9.2 km rides. In total 4 of them with times of 34 mins, 31 mins, 31 mins and 30.5 mins. The last one I didn't feel as I put in as much effort as the others and I got better results.

    I am really wanting to get 10km under 30 minutes thats my first goal and then getting an hour ride with a descent avg (hmm, 17km/hr). They are my short term goals.

    Note this riding is being done on a 13 year of mountain bike with 700c * 35mm tyres and the bike is never been maintained. I can't wait till August to get my new bike. I'm looking at a Giant CRX4 or a Giant DEFY3. I'm pretty sure I can beat the 10km in under 30 minutes in that easy peasy

    My longer term goals, (after my b'day in august) is to take part in the weekly Sunday group rides at my LBS, the ride is 55km, nice.

    I would like some advice regarding where to now, I am feeling comfortable with this 9.2 km ride. Should I keep at it and try to scrap some time off or gradually build up like 1km more each week??

    Chris

  6. #6
    pedo viejo
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    Here's a simple recipe for home-made sports drink that I stole from someplace on the internet. It's much cheaper, if less exotic, than commercial mixes:

    1.5 c sugar
    1 T. salt
    1 T. Kool Aide or similar powdered mix for flavor

    Blend well in a food processor for ~10-15 secs. and store in a dry place.

    I usually put 1.5 T (25 cc) of this mixture into a 20 oz. water bottle and drink about 1 bottle/hr. in all but the hottest weather (in which case I drink a bit more).

    If your long-term goal is the 55km weekly ride, then I'd recommend you start adding ~10%/week to your current distance. At the same time, you can go out once a week and hammer along your current route to get your time down. If you can get in at least 3-4 rides per week, then your goals sound easily attainable.

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    Hi Chris,

    Mountain bikes are awful for road riding. My guess is when you get your Giant, you'll do an average of 20k's a hour. Believe me... and along with your training up to August you're gonna be hard to catch.

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    Senior Member SharpStone30888's Avatar
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    I've been looking at more bikes and mainly at the components and I'm going for the Specialized Sirrus Sport.

    The only thing I'm worried about with the bike is that I might miss out on using drop bars (I have never used em and don't know if I like em or not). Any other drop bikes are too expensive (I know the DEFY3 is but I don't like the componentry as its bottom range shimano whereas the sirrus is sora not 2200). How would I go about converting the sport If I tried a drop and liked it (at the store before purchase??)

    I could try a drop at the shop before I buy the sirrus sport and see what they can do If I like em...

    I'll be training all up to August but not purely bike as I might take 2 months off to train for the local 14K city to surf Sydney fun run (like 70,000 compete every year, its massive). So i'll be running alot then.

    Hey palookabutt do you reckon you could convert all those T. and cc's to mls and grams I don't know the conversion (or what T is? tablespoon/teaspoon).

    Well i'm off for a ride now.

    Chris
    Last edited by SharpStone30888; 02-15-09 at 12:13 AM. Reason: Spelling

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    It doesn't make economic sense to convert a flat bar bike to drop bar or vice versa, mainly because you have to get different shifters which are usually the most expensive parts of the gruppo.

    Have you looked at this place? http://www.cellbikes.com.au/c_2_ROAD_Bikes

    Appears to be generic frames but with pretty decent components for the money.

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    Senior Member SharpStone30888's Avatar
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    Got back from the ride about an hour ago. I broke the 30 minute mark in my 9.2Km route, I did it in 29.5 minutes With an average speed of 18.7Km/hr (~11.5mi/hr).

    I'm getting faster

    I have always been very underweight. I am a 20 year old male who weighs only 55Kg(121lb), but since I've started riding I have put on 2.5Kg (5.5lbs) and am now 57.5Kg (126.5lbs). Excellent I'm putting on some muscle. I'm going to do some weight lifting tomorrow, i'm focusing on quads, hamstrings, biceps, triceps and I'll also do some bench press (as my upper body is kinda pathetic).

    Now the leg workouts I do will be done at home with a normal bench with a leg swinger thing at the end, I do leg extensions for the quads and then lie on my stomach and to leg flexion for the hamstrings. Does anyone have any tips on more workouts for my legs.

    I'm also doing daily situps to try and build a strong core.

    My new years resolution was to put on 10Kg so I would be 65Kg and would just fit into my healthy weight range (65-81Kg), I am 185cm (6' 2").

    Chris

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    Senior Member SharpStone30888's Avatar
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    I'll check out that website Pendergast and get back to you how I go...

    Chris

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    Senior Member SharpStone30888's Avatar
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    I checkout out website, I found a full sora for $850 (usually for $1200) on sale. And a full 105 for $1100 (usually $1600). The location is good as I drive past there regularly (though never noticed the bike shop on the side of the road, hmm).

    These cheap prices are something to think about, i'll have to add it to my list to try out before I buy, thanks mate.

    Chris

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    As far as the weight lifting goes, as thin as you are I wouldn't spend time doing isolation exercises. I think I'd stick with deadlifts(and squats if you're working out in a gym and have people to spot you), push-ups (or bench press if you have someone to spot you or are using a machine that won't trap you under the bar), and pull-ups or lat pull-downs. Those are the exercises that will pack on muscle.

    I'm a big fan of the swiss ball(stability ball) for core exercises. Planks of various types using the swiss ball are excellent. And I think using a swiss ball to support your lower back for crunches/sit-ups makes the exercise much more effective.

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    Senior Member SharpStone30888's Avatar
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    I won't be working out in a gym, only at home with dumb-bells, a bar-bell and a bench press.

    You mention lat pull-downs??? I usually would think of the bar-bell holding back of hands facing out and pulling it up into your chin with elbows bent out. Is that a lat pull-up?

    Pull-ups, yes, they are good thanks for reminding me, i'll have to have a look around for a good place at home to do some.

    I have been trying crunches alot lately and also pushups, but when doing pushups I notice that my abdominals are getting a workout...

    Is resting the bar-bell on the back of my shoulder and doing squats with it good, Is that what you meant with deadlift squats??

    I should try to do this 2-3 times a week and see how I go.

    Chris

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    You mention lat pull-downs???
    They're a gym machine exercise that are roughly the equivalent of pull-ups.

    I usually would think of the bar-bell holding back of hands facing out and pulling it up into your chin with elbows bent out. Is that a lat pull-up?
    No, if you're standing up straight that's called an upright row. I'm not crazy about that exercise because it can be hard on your rotator cuff.

    If you're bent over and pulling the bar-bell up toward your chest, that's called a bent row, and I do think that's a fine exercise.

    Pull-ups, yes, they are good thanks for reminding me, i'll have to have a look around for a good place at home to do some.
    They're an excellent exercise. If you don't have a good place to do them, there's a nifty little piece of equipment called the "Door Gym" http://www.doorgym.net/ that's not too expensive. I got mine from karatedepot.com but there's probably somewhere in Sydney that sells something similar.

    I have been trying crunches alot lately and also pushups, but when doing pushups I notice that my abdominals are getting a workout...
    Yep, push-ups are great. They're basically a combination of the bench press and plank.

    Is resting the bar-bell on the back of my shoulder and doing squats with it good, Is that what you meant with deadlift squats??
    No. Resting the bar-bell on your back and doing squats without someone to spot you is a dangerous exercise. Don't do it. Stick with deadlifts--that's resting the bar-bell on the floor, squatting down and grabbing it then just lifting it off the floor and standing up straight so the barbell hangs in front of your hips.

    Doing bar-bell bench presses are also dangerous without a spotter. People have been killed by getting the bar trapped across the throat. I'd do push-ups instead or use the dumb-bells(which present the lesser hazard of possibly bashing you in the face if your arms give out.) Actually, I'd just do push-ups for the chest/triceps part of your workout.

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    When you are just starting, ride for time, and keep your intensity down so that you can talk fairly easily the whole time. Most people ride far to hard initially.
    Eric

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    I probably should have said something about proper deadlift form earlier. If you don't do it correctly, you can injure your lower back.

    Some things to keep in mind:

    Keep your back straight.

    Keep your head up. Lowering your head causes you to round your back which is a no-no when you're deadlifting.

    Keep the bar close to your shins.

    Don't extend your back excessively at the top of the movement because it puts strain on your lower back.

    Don't start out trying to deadlift heavy. Best to ease into it over many weeks.

    Here's an example of good form: http://www.exrx.net/AnimatedEx/Erect...BBDeadlift.gif

    You can shift the load more to your quads by taking a wider "sumo" stance or taking a wide "snatch" grip on the barbell which will allow you to squat deeper.

    You can also deadlift with dumb-bells starting with them positioned at the sides of your feet which makes it easier to maintain correct form. Less tendency to lean forward.

  18. #18
    Senior Member SharpStone30888's Avatar
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    Thanks heaps guys. I will try to take that all in and use it, I'll get back to you how I went.

    Chris

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    Here's some youtube video of people deadlifting. Ignore the negative comments attached to the video. The form of the people doing the lifting is just fine.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjBI9qxibTc

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    Senior Member SharpStone30888's Avatar
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    Thanks heaps pendergast, I just tried out the deadlifts and looked at the video to help my form. Its great I can feel it working out my legs and not straining my back at all and is safe. I only did light weights so far (7.5kgs on the bar + bar)

    (how heavy is a normal bar anyway??) Just weighed it = 7kgs

    Also my bike is 15.5kgs which is 34lbs (woah)...

    I did 10 reps and 3 sets, how does this sound? should I adjust?

    I'll keep it at that weight for a few weeks and move up.
    Last edited by SharpStone30888; 02-15-09 at 05:56 PM. Reason: Spelling/added weights

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    Quote Originally Posted by SharpStone30888 View Post
    Thanks heaps pendergast, I just tried out the deadlifts and looked at the video to help my form. Its great I can feel it working out my legs and not straining my back at all and is safe. I only did light weights so far (7.5kgs on the bar + bar)

    (how heavy is a normal bar anyway??) Just weighed it = 7kgs

    Also my bike is 15.5kgs which is 34lbs (woah)...

    I did 10 reps and 3 sets, how does this sound? should I adjust?

    I'll keep it at that weight for a few weeks and move up.
    Three sets of 10 reps or four sets of 8 reps sounds about right. If you're making it through the last set easily and are confident of your form, you could probably add some more weight. No problem keeping it at the weight you've been doing for a little while though--you're probably going to have some soreness just from doing an exercise that's new to you, no sense in making yourself so sore starting out that you negatively affect the other things you want to do.

    Here's another youtube clip that I ran across. Thought it was a pretty good instructional on the deadlift. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8u899...eature=related

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    Senior Member SharpStone30888's Avatar
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    Thanks, that last video was very long and listed alot of mistakes that people make and lots of tips to make sure I have to correct form.

    I cycled again today, I completed my circuit in my fastest time but I had this massive head wind for like 2K's of the ride, I was riding down hill only going about 10k's an hour and pushing real hard in a low gear (dam, wind tunnel of a bike path next to the motorway). To combat the wind I try to get down into an aerodynamic position which involves the bending of my arms, to prevent my arms bending too much (and hurting) I slide back on the saddle, really far back. What can I/should I adjust??

    Chris

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    There's only so much you can do when you're riding a mountain bike. Sounds like you adjusted your position about as well as you could to get more aero. That's one of the big reasons you should think seriously about getting a drop bar road bike instead of going with a flat bar road bike/hybrid. It's just so much easier to get low and narrow with a drop bar. Much easier to beat the wind.

  24. #24
    Senior Member SharpStone30888's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pendergast View Post
    There's only so much you can do when you're riding a mountain bike. Sounds like you adjusted your position about as well as you could to get more aero. That's one of the big reasons you should think seriously about getting a drop bar road bike instead of going with a flat bar road bike/hybrid. It's just so much easier to get low and narrow with a drop bar. Much easier to beat the wind.
    Hmm, The Giant Defy3 ($1200) has drop bars and costs about 20% more than the Sirrus sport ($1000). The Sirrus sport has mainly Sora parts but the DEFY3 has mainly 2200 (I have been told to avoid the lowest parts where possible).

    What do you think?

    I can get the cell bike, road drop bars with sora parts and costs $850, though this bike is online and I would have to put it together myself, I have watched a building online bike tutorial from bicycletutor.com but I don't know. Is it hard? Do I need technical tools or would my dads normal DIY tools do it???

    With the fit, I might be fine as I can measure my height and inseem and figure out which size I should get, but then I get no test ride, hmmm ????

    Chris

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    Did Cell Bikes not have a retail store? Judging from the website, it looked like they do. I'd check there and see if they have bikes that are already assembled. That full Tiagra bike at Cell looks like a good buy to me. That 105 bike(http://www.cellbikes.com.au/p_58_CEL...ll_Shimano_105) looks like a great buy but it sounds like it may be outside your budget.

    Here's another place that I ran across:
    http://northernbeachescycles.com.au/...175e0d56f75bd5

    They sell bikes online but it also looks like they have two retail stores in Sydney. $699+shipping for full Sora(8-speed, as is the Sora bike from Cell). http://northernbeachescycles.com.au/...175e0d56f75bd5 It only shows them to have 46cm in stock but if you're not buying immediately that could change. $953+shipping for full 9-speed Sora.http://northernbeachescycles.com.au/...175e0d56f75bd5 Note that these have carbon forks while the comparable Sora bike from Cell has a chromoly fork(not that there's anything wrong with steel forks other than they're a bit heavier). There are some other nice bikes for the money there, too. And who knows what they have in their retail stores. I'd sure check them out.


    I've bought two mail-order bikes and neither was difficult to assemble(a set of hex wrenches and a pedal wrench were the only tools I needed, I think). I'd check and see how much assembly there is for bikes from those two places. They're probably already mostly assembled--it's not like you'd be building up a bike from a bare frame. Fit wasn't a problem for me because I was able to test ride my first mail-order bike, and they just shipped one like it to me. That was about 10 years ago. I wasn't very worried about fit of the second mail-order bike because I could compare the sizing to the bike I'd been riding for the past 10 years. You have a bit more difficulty. You can do the measurements and plug the numbers into this fit calculator(it's pretty reliable--it produces a slightly shorter top tube measurement for me than I prefer but most people seem to find it to be accurate) http://www.competitivecyclist.com/za...LCULATOR_INTRO

    I don't know what sort of shops Cell Bike and Northern Beaches Cycles/Belrose Bicycles are. Maybe they have showrooms where you can test ride bikes even if they don't sell assembled bikes. Maybe you'll be lucky and they do sell assembled bikes or maybe they'll at least have people to assist you with fit. Ultimately the decision is up to you, but I'm the kind of person who would take some risks if it meant getting a better bike than I otherwise could. If it were me I'd do everything I could to scrape together the money to get that 105 bike from Cell. If that wasn't possible I'd go for the Tiagra bike from Cell.

    Another option is to buy a used road bike. You can often get quite a bit more for your money going that route. There's not really a whole lot of risk doing that since you could probably sell the bike for close to what you paid for it if you ended up not liking it.

    Edited to add this: Yep, it looks like the bikes from Cell are shipped in the same state of assembly as the mail-order bikes I've bought. http://www.cellbikes.com.au/help_article.php?id=10
    Last edited by Pendergast; 02-17-09 at 03:51 AM.

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